SCANDINAVIA (Denmark & Norway)

[j.a.luna]

Hi sship team i saw various issues in my norwegian campaign...

1. Units in battles and Strat map units (as generals, merchants...) dont have voices in my spanish version.
2. Bondir unit have wrong description , it say about have javelins and is not true, also they are effective against cavalry and only have little axes, currently they are not spearmen...(they are rural levy with axes)
3. Drenghar unit have old vainilla models, also have a "viking style" but with a lot of swords, i think that kostic could give them more appropiate unit model with axes and shield, swords were a pretty expensive weapons for peasants...
4. Drenghar unit and Veteran Drenghar unit more should be differentiated between them, for example, renaming the drenghar veterans as "Scandinavian mercenaries" or something like that, in addition to giving them "shield wall ability" (representing the Scandinavian / old viking way of fighting) and representing them with a little more armor now who are mercenary warriors in that area with good equipment ready for war. (It would be necessary to make them mercenaries in the different files.)I would leave the drenghar (peasant militia) more as factional units of Norway and Denmark since they represent the lower classes, similar to the bondirs, and not so much as mercenaries.
Maybe if this drenghar model is changed to another one without so many swords (because they were lower class) with round wooden shields and small axes, the "Bondir" unit could go back to being a kind of "light spearmen", with small spears and scythes (tools for tilling the field) representing the Scandinavian villagers and the previously mentioned ability of "Effective against cavalry" could be left.

[kostic]

These are very pertinent remarks indeed. There are several things you can do to improve Scandinavian factions.

[j.a.luna]

These are very pertinent remarks indeed. There are several things you can do to improve Scandinavian factions.

Thanks Kostic! Tell me how I can help you and how to improve them!

[JeftolMeister]

<font size="3"><u><strong>I. General information</strong></u></font><br>
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This thread is meant to gather all information about the faction and to conduct discussions on the faction related issues.<br>
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The entries should be developed by both the SSHIP team and the interested players.

I've discovered this mod somewhere last week and found it to be brilliant. (I did play regular Stainless Steel quite alot.) My only experience so far is with the Papal States (VH/VH) and found it to be less exciting than I imagined.

There is no real Family Tree and it is a bit too easy imo so I quit after 30 turns or so. I decided to play as Norway (VH/VH) to find out the ins & outs in 10-15 turns and began anew with the following tactics &amp; strategy:The main strategy was: The generals are infantry troops so I needed horses to hunt down routing enemy troops ASAP. Ally Denmark to betray them later by provoking an attack on me (so I wont piss off the Pope).

After Denmark: going for Scotland/England depening on their status with the pope or going to Novgorod. (We'll see.) The money-situation on Norway (VH/VH) is extremely dire. I needed to get as many (rebel)settlements as quick as possible with the use of my spy-agent. Ally as many neighbouring factions as possible. How it turned out so far: I allied Denmark (1st turn) and Poland (5th turn?) as well.

Turn 20: Conquered all rebel settlements, including Visby. Turn 20: Denmark, my ally, betrayed me. (I wasn't fully aware this was even possible!)

Turn 22-23: Denmark bribed a 1-unit settlement after I recevied orders from the Pope not to attack them. (I didn't know bribing a whole settlement was a possibility either.)

Turn 38: Finished off Denmark but got excommunicated in the process and a plague hit. (Denmark bribed another 4-unit settlement in the meantime btw, extremely frustrating but truely rewarding to kill them off.)

Turn 39: Got lucky with a Polish army next to a rebel settlement who helped my 1 troop unit (infiltrated the settlement with a spy)

Turn 40: Poland betrayed me by attacking the settlement they just helped me won. My finances are a bit better every turn since conquering Denmark. 5-6k to spend each turn but still a very mediocre army compared to other factions. My tactics: The spy and the 1 ship-unit played a key-role in the campaign so far. The first turn there is a priest you should be able to spy on to increase your stat without getting killed. Campaigning abroad on VH/VH is extremely expensive and a lucky/succesfull spy saves 1 turn. Built stable to get atleast 1 unit of Svenner-horses. The plan: Fight off the Poles, my army is going to be there just in time. Peace would be nice. My diplomat is in Rome to request reconciliation. Hopefully with succes any time soon. Hoping the HRE wont interfere.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Money is indeed scarse for Norway, as it was historically. Fortunately, the number of enemies is also limited.
Bribing settlments - you need to have a look at the traits of the governor. Some traits make it much harder to be bribed - and these should govern (what is even more important in the Near East as there're more spies, factions are reacher and I think the somehow hardcoded behaviour is different).
Papal States are not meant to be played, they're rather a placeholder and a parameter for the other factions.
Keep your campaign up!

[Gabranth12]

Not that I'm an expert, but shouldn't Denmark have higher farming levels? According to wikipedia grain used to be Denmark's most lucrative export. Also, Denmark and Norway were good trade partners because Norway exported metals and fish, while Denmark exported foodstuffs. Also, Denmark has frequent rain and a flat landscape, which is good for agriculture. So, if I understand correctly, Denmark should have easier population growth and some cheap resources to export, while Norway should face a challenge with agriculture, but have more valuable resources to export and mine (like iron, silver). Nothing too important, just a friendly suggestion from my small research.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Denmark has slightly better agriculture than Norway. However, in the Middle Ages, this region was poor. Grain might have been the most lucrative export, but in comparison to other DK export, while grain in other parts of the world was much more exported - or maybe consumed locally. The current state of affairs in the SSHIP is intended.

[Gabranth12]

Yes that makes sense! Thank you for the answer. Keep up the good work!

[The Despondent Mind]

Maybe this entry (and the previous ones) would explain something on the usurper issu.

On Diplomats:

The problem is, with Norway, I have no way to recruit them. I cannot recruit a single diplomat.

[Waluk]

I agree Norway needs a bit of a revamp. Played for 160 turns and the economy is so weak you can't afford any units, couldn't even defend against rebels. Once the two initial merchants die, you can't recruit new ones. Same with diplomats, once the first one dies, you can't recruit a new one and princesses aren't as reliable as you also need them for marriages. Than civil war broke out and it was time to abandon this playthrough. No money, no units, no agents. Meanwhile Denmark conquered HRE down to Nurenburg and all of the baltics. Also having no cavalry as generals bodyguard is tough. Mind you, this is VH/VH difficulty, but I doubt lowering difficulty would help much in terms of economy and agent availability. Had very similar experiences with Novgorod, where I restarted 3 times. By the time you conquer a province or two, you are most likely already in a war against Lithuania. Your starting units are weak and every time I fought the Lithuanians at our western borders, a massive army of Cumans appeared east of Novgorod and the Danes disembarked in Finland and Estonia. Aaaaand it was game over But I did see the AI Norway is quite strong and often defeats the Danes. Also most of the times the Papal state is still the one conquering all of Italy. Can't wait to try out new version.

[Macaras]

Regarding Norway I found it necessary to move the capital city, otherwise corruption in the poorly developed cities makes income so low.
It can be moved either to Anslo or to Lund. When I play Norway I always try to conquer as much cities as possible from the rebels and then take Lund from Denmark at the opportune moment (which is very difficult) and establish it as a fortified city. Then I move the capital. The second trick is to hire German Knights as mercenaries, to do this the general needs to travel to northern germany. That's the only heavy cavalry available in the beginning and it allows to win difficult battles.

[Stivanderen]

So the danes had problem with finding good stone and there for often used bricks instead could this be depicted on the campaign map?

[Jurand of Cracow]

So the danes had problem with finding good stone and there for often used bricks instead could this be depicted on the campaign map?

Unfortuntelly, no. We've got max of resources in game, hardcoded limit.

How do you find the Stavkirke building?

[Stivanderen]

I was thinking of giving them the eastern european strategy map models

[Jurand of Cracow]

I was thinking of giving them the eastern european strategy map models

I don't quite understand what do you mean

[Stivanderen]

On the campaign map the danes use the northern european model for their castles and cities with grey walls and buildings. I want them to use the eastern european model that has red brick walls and buildings as a nod to their lack of good stone.

[Jurand of Cracow]

On the campaign map the danes use the northern european model for their castles and cities with grey walls and buildings. I want them to use the eastern european model that has red brick walls and buildings as a nod to their lack of good stone.

I don't think it's possible unless one introduces additional culture group (eg scandinavian_european). This would be a huge, huge work.

Btw, may somebody could have a look and provide proper Coats of Arms for the Scandinavian cities? Eg. I'd guess this one is not really a medieval CoA for Lund:

[ilnurMeft]

Hello there! I searched this thread before posting, and it seems like this bug isn't known

In my Denmark game I conquered Abo (Finland town) with my King and crushed the scripted rebel army on the same turn. On the next turn a completely disloyal general without admin/military inclination spawned next to the town without notice. His bodyguard are infantry (woodsmen I think), and he brought two chud spearmen

Seems like this Glum lad is supposed to be a rebel, but the game spawned him as a general belonging to my kingdom. No event or message accompanied him.

Screenshot

[kostic]

This is a special feature of SSHIP. Loyalist armies may appear, normally to defend a territory. In your case it's strange...
You can demobilize the units but not the general (why is he still a bad guy I wonder)

[Belovèse]

Hello there! I searched this thread before posting, and it seems like this bug isn't known

In my Denmark game I conquered Abo (Finland town) with my King and crushed the scripted rebel army on the same turn. On the next turn a completely disloyal general without admin/military inclination spawned next to the town without notice. His bodyguard are infantry (woodsmen I think), and he brought two chud spearmen

Seems like this Glum lad is supposed to be a rebel, but the game spawned him as a general belonging to my kingdom. No event or message accompanied him.

Screenshot

Did you get the ppop-up scroll about St Eric? It explain everything: this glum guy is there to represent the First Swedish Crusade east of the Baltic Sea.