[Experimental Battle Pack] - Episode IV - A New Hope (Obsolete)

[KAM 2150]

No dates are set yet. Pretty much all of it will be added. I just had to take a small break from it to grab some fresh air and go back to work on naval stuff plus polish outstanding items.

[Goffredo85]

just had a very strange rome vs carthage campaign battle in which several enemy units stopped fighting my own and passed through them to attack on the flanks or to reach weaker units. will post some screens to show it tomorrow.
EDIT:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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a series of pictures showing how a unit decided to simply walk through my own and exit on the opposite side of the battle line. the white flag is because their status went to wavering while passing through because of the losses suffered during the previous long melee. they were not running away.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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here another example. the unit on the top decided to pull back from combat by simply walking through my units

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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and here another example. the militia on the right side decided to exit from the encirclement and then proceeded to attack my units on the side.as i said above at first the melee went normally but then several units started to break through this way. it happend to at least 4/5 different kind of units. never happened before with base DEI, or at least not this extent in a single engagement.
might be worth investigating.

[Aureliae]

No dates are set yet. Pretty much all of it will be added. I just had to take a small break from it to grab some fresh air and go back to work on naval stuff plus polish outstanding items.

In that case I'll look into making it compatible with Jake Armitage's Testudo submod. I'll figure out with him in the Testudo thread about I would need to edit, but as of now I think it's just a matter of making sure general bodyguards have stats to match your experimental pack here and that unit recruitment costs are in line with the submod.

I understand all the changes will eventually make it in there, but are they trickling into the main mod or are you going to finalize this and then add all the changes to the main mod at once?

And please, by all means, take your time. You and the rest of the DeI team (and quite a few sub-modders) are doing the work of the Gods. And if you (whether singular or plural) can make the naval battles in Rome 2 worth playing, then I'll actually strongly consider building a shrine in my bedroom and praying to you nightly. Any improvement to naval combat is welcome, it's been one of the more stale parts of Rome 2 since its release, far too clunky.



Thank you, the whole team, for making this game as great as you do.

[Paladin94610]

I talked about this mount animation bug a while ago, when riders hang in the air when they fall in battle. I fixed it here (just for experimental battle pack)
Just replace the pack with this one.
The changes I did are
- Adding variants with 'rome_man_sword_shield' animation for new mount entities (which only has 'rome_man_sword' animation)
- Adding those mounts in land_units with man_animation entries of 'rome_man_spear_shield_cavalry' and some vice versa.
- I check carefully to match mount weight class 'heavy', 'medium', 'light' etc when switching from spear_shield to sword_shield mounts (the closest thing I could do)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=17opuzDSL-mxGclLJLQ9N2CBJwP0jc3pB

[Enclave76]

KAM 2150
Thank you, good BAI
Eas_Atr_Apple-Bearers and Eas_Atr_Elite_Infantry
300 man is right, not 200?

[KAM 2150]

Yes, Media lacks "proper" heaviyl armoured and quality elite infantry but instead their "good" units have more man.

[net_boy]

My impressions after this submod:
firs of all a want to say that I insert it not from the beginning of my campaign, only after 72 turns, as Pontus, now its 137
1. In my humble opinion, chariots now are such as should be, perfects, also for good result should be micro-control, same with elephants
2. after few battles with Romans, bastarnoz, my revols armies I find something strange in morale, after I kill more than half of army, also enemy general dead, 80 percent chance, that other army will retreat, even they had elite full units, which were not in battle!!! its make battles much more easy(difficult normal), because after I kill all of them by my cavalry, and no more enemy army.
in my humble opinionin my humble opinion

[KAM 2150]

Well what do you expect would happen if both general and majority of army is dead? And no, it does not make battles easier because this is set to happen when 75% of enemy army is dead, in base DeI that would happen already at around 40%-50% of army routed due to chain rout of levies. This is actually main reason why experimental pack was created in the first place as base battles were too easy.

[Ptolemaios Soter]

KAM, the morale debuff of friendly units routing *is* stronger in the battle pack right? That’s certainly my observation (and my hope - I like it, as do most people I’ve played with).

[KAM 2150]

It was lowered by almost 50% because it was the reason why routs were and are so easy in base version.

[Aureliae]

I'm in preliminary steps for making Testudo's RPGu component compatible with this pack. I asked ol' Jake Armitage to look into the tables for me as an assist, and I just wanted to confirm with you, KAM, about what I'll need to do. What changes did you make in the following tables and what will I need to change to make RPGu's bodyguard units have the same battle stats as this pack?

- battle_entities_tables: naval (did Kam changed something for naval yet?). Anyway that's for Harbor admin only so it's pretty usless
- land_units_tables: charge, attack, defend (could be these are the only things to chenge everywhere)
- land_units_to_unit_abilites_junctions_tables: probably nothing is changed, can't say
- main_units_tables: no change (at least for roman starting BG)
- unit_variants_tables: probably nothing is changed, can't say

Are we missing any relevant tables I'll need to edit? Should it be as simple as copying and pasting the relevant battle stats from the Experimental Pack into the RPGu files?

Thanks in advance for the help, KAM...and I hope everyone is staying safe and healthy in this pandemic!

[Jake Armitage]

those are the tabs to check, most likely.
rpgu doesn't insert new units (it copy paste them so to have more variations giving custom effects) nor it alters any stat besides upkeeps and numbers of men (for admin/diplo/drill).

the best process is this one:
1) check what unit my weird names are describing, you can do that by checking the UI image through unit_variants_tables and then check the image itself into ui folder with pfm/rpfm
2) now that you know what units are what pick one, like the basic Rom_General, and confront rpgu pack with kam's
3) there shouldn't be many changes to do, but if you wanna be 100% sure check every same table in both packs.
Do not change the unit specific key (or whatever is called), it's a number inside main_units (or land_units). They must be kept as I've put them into rpgu packs, I'm speaking about numbers like 198760101, things like that, you'll see they are progressive

[net_boy]

In my previous post I forget to tell about cavalry wedge( triangle formation for attacking), its disappear for all my cavalry, including mercenaries, is it true, or this is I catch a bug(play as Pontus)?

[net_boy]

Also forgot to write that in battle I saw that roman cavalry form wedge

[Aureliae]

In my previous post I forget to tell about cavalry wedge( triangle formation for attacking), its disappear for all my cavalry, including mercenaries, is it true, or this is I catch a bug(play as Pontus)?

Also forgot to write that in battle I saw that roman cavalry form wedge

I'll go ahead and beat KAM to it: this is an intended feature of the Experimental Battle Pack, because cavalry wedges were rarely used in ancient times, only used by certain cultures/groups of people, and only used in certain tactical situations.

[KAM 2150]

And main reason, it made AI cavalry very dumb, often walking into player units instead of charging or instead of running when pulling away, AI would order walk, often through player line. I have some ideas how to make it sort of work but I did not have time to properly check it. In final form, I plan to have it only for selected units that were known for using such tactics.


As for above question about compatibility, these are correct tables. Best is to just compare similar units and assign stats based on it. I have all charge/melee attack/melee defence values based on grade of weapon used so all "cspear3" units will have same charge bonus, melee attack and melee defence. Morale is up to you.

[Aureliae]

And main reason, it made AI cavalry very dumb, often walking into player units instead of charging or instead of running when pulling away, AI would order walk, often through player line. I have some ideas how to make it sort of work but I did not have time to properly check it. In final form, I plan to have it only for selected units that were known for using such tactics.

Ah, yes! Thank you, KAM, I thought I was forgetting something. Total War AI makes my head hurt with its stupidity, ridiculousness, and improper functioning...

As for above question about compatibility, these are correct tables. Best is to just compare similar units and assign stats based on it. I have all charge/melee attack/melee defence values based on grade of weapon used so all "cspear3" units will have same charge bonus, melee attack and melee defence. Morale is up to you.

Yeah, I would simply use your Battle Pack tables as a reference to change the stats for the RPGu general bodyguards which are intended to fight on the battlefield (as opposed to the general bodyguards only intended to be used as governors). The RPGu general bodyguards are technically different units in the db tables, because the main RPGu effects are scripts referencing unit keys/IDs, but they have the exact same visuals and battle stats as their regular DeI unit counterparts, so I just need to make them compatible when I start using this Battle Pack. When I finally get around to it, I'll simply copy-paste your exact Experimental battle stats onto the corresponding RPGu bodyguards, I simply wanted to double check that Jake and I had all the correct tables. I say "when I finally get around to it" because I'm currently working on some things here and there in my own personal submod while I wait for Jake's next version of his Testudo submod. Thanks for the help, and all the modding work!

[Oliver27]

Any chance there is a way to fix fort AI? Forts are tedious affairs as the AI always blobs up around one gate and gets wrecked by rear charges. I will not use forts for this reason, which is a shame since they were a big part of Roman warfare.

This looks good I'll try it out thanks a lot guys, DEI is the best!

[gnosis89]

Really looking forward to this being made compatible with Testudo. If I may, what needs to be changed in order for it to be?

[Jake Armitage]

@ oliver
no there is not, you can't assign a different battle map nor you can't interfere (for most parts) with AI decisions.
this is so since Rome 2 day one

@ gnosis
Check posts #91 and #92 here and #946 inside testudo thread

Please do not ask kam nor post here things about submods.
It's an experimental pack, it's WIP.
Kam doesn't have the time (nor the interest) to follow submodders' work, whatever they are doing.
Write inside specific submod's threads.