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Thread: Should Chinese Chinamen even be allowed to play EBII? Let's discuss!

  1. #21

    Default Re: Should Chinese Chinamen even be allowed to play EBII? Let's discuss!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormungand View Post
    As a Chinese player of EB since 2010, some of the stuff posted here, even in sarcastic jest, is a bit sad to look at. Especially the mocking the accent and shameful display stuff.

    I see more and more of 'them Chinese' posts around online these days, like the expectation is that there aren't any of us playing EB, browsing posts, etc.

    Playing Europa Barbarorum 1 got me through the end of high school, where despite being bullied, managed to immerse myself into great environments and histories of ages past. It allowed me to escape - where it was a great relief to imagine being in the Hellenistic era (aided by other media such as Alexander and docus like Decisive Battles, Time Commanders, Colleen McCullough's Masters of Rome series).

    Really grateful to EB for that. If there was a great firewall put up against us Chinese (and I know it was in jest) it would have well barred me from having all that fun!

    Roma-Victrix, I've had a lot of fun playing with your music mods, especially the RTW:MTWII one, and am very grateful for your making them. They're an essential fix in all of my playthroughs. While not being personally offended by your usage of 'Chinaman', some of your US Asians might find that word on par to 'n***er' in its historical usage and modern meaning. Just to point that out.
    You are too polite in response lmao. Just happened to check out EB2 recently after my initial poor impression a few years back due to the release being unpolished (initial release, i think it was either volound or cosmic contrarian from youtube that summed up my thoughts) and I see that what once would've gotten me and some other lads warned by the moderation for shitflinging is apparently fine nowadays in the modding section; though I am aware that if i back for fun i'll probably get punished as my shitflinging is too spicy like indian curry.
    炸鸡

  2. #22
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Gatorade, is it in you?
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    Default Re: Should Chinese Chinamen even be allowed to play EBII? Let's discuss!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormungand View Post
    As a Chinese player of EB since 2010, some of the stuff posted here, even in sarcastic jest, is a bit sad to look at. Especially the mocking the accent and shameful display stuff.

    I see more and more of 'them Chinese' posts around online these days, like the expectation is that there aren't any of us playing EB, browsing posts, etc.

    Playing Europa Barbarorum 1 got me through the end of high school, where despite being bullied, managed to immerse myself into great environments and histories of ages past. It allowed me to escape - where it was a great relief to imagine being in the Hellenistic era (aided by other media such as Alexander and docus like Decisive Battles, Time Commanders, Colleen McCullough's Masters of Rome series).

    Really grateful to EB for that. If there was a great firewall put up against us Chinese (and I know it was in jest) it would have well barred me from having all that fun!

    Roma-Victrix, I've had a lot of fun playing with your music mods, especially the RTW:MTWII one, and am very grateful for your making them. They're an essential fix in all of my playthroughs. While not being personally offended by your usage of 'Chinaman', some of your US Asians might find that word on par to 'n***er' in its historical usage and modern meaning. Just to point that out.
    Well, well, well, I knew it! A spy from Beijing! We got him, guys.

    All kidding aside, sorry if I offended you.

    That being said, this satirical post of mine is the culmination of frustration if you've been paying attention to my posts at all in this sub-forum. I'm like THE one guy here needling and pushing for more inclusion of Chinese stuff as I find it odd to exclude them from the game in almost every aspect. Not saying they should be made a faction due to the hard-coded limits of the M2TW campaign map, but this thread, if anything, is a subtle jab at EBII, not exactly at actual Chinese people.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Should Chinese Chinamen even be allowed to play EBII? Let's discuss!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormungand View Post
    As a Chinese player of EB since 2010, some of the stuff posted here, even in sarcastic jest, is a bit sad to look at. Especially the mocking the accent and shameful display stuff.
    I was the one making a primitive joke featuring a fictional stereotype of a Chinese accent. A real Chinese accent of course sounds nothing like the mock-up that I produced. When I first arrived in the US, I already had a fairly good command of the English language in writing. I still had a terrible accent and was often unsure how a word that I knew how to spell should even be pronounced let alone succeeding in pronouncing it.

    The most degrading thing I remember was when people refused to take me seriously because of my accent. Some folks would not listen to what I said but how I said it. I could always talk back to my coworkers or buddies, but I disliked particularly when a customer at work would insult me as there was no level ground for me to work on. I urge you all to be very careful in giving a hard time to those that do not have the luxury of defending themselves, if you want to maintain your personal integrity. Those situations include being a superior to someone or a customer in a market economy. The latter of course is something that you Chinese Chinamen have no concept of. Oh, damn, there I go again!

    Okay, seriously, I am not very proud of finding myself making you feel what I myself disliked so much. An unusually zany kind of humor has set up shop here because of certain members (like the original poster) and their mindless cronies (that's me!), but rest assured, we do not mean to discriminate. In all honesty, I am happy to have you onboard here. Out of principle, I do not want to apologize for humor, but if you want to discuss history, strategy gaming, or any of the many topics we find interesting here, I will definitely take you seriously. And perhaps give it a bit more thought the next time before I make stupid accent jokes.

    Quote Originally Posted by BroskiDerpman View Post
    You are too polite in response lmao.
    I too commend Jormungand for making his point in a very mature way.

    Quote Originally Posted by BroskiDerpman View Post
    I see that what once would've gotten me and some other lads warned by the moderation for shitflinging is apparently fine nowadays in the modding section
    True; this subforum seems to tolerate quite a bit. Then again, we do not really find it hard to breath in here because of overcrowding. The funny threads are easy to avoid if one does not like them, but I hope that we can all tolerate those as long as flooding the zany content does not make it harder to follow the serious EBII content.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Should Chinese Chinamen even be allowed to play EBII? Let's discuss!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormungand View Post
    Playing Europa Barbarorum 1 got me through the end of high school, where despite being bullied, managed to immerse myself into great environments and histories of ages past. It allowed me to escape - where it was a great relief to imagine being in the Hellenistic era (aided by other media such as Alexander and docus like Decisive Battles, Time Commanders, Colleen McCullough's Masters of Rome series).

    Really grateful to EB for that.
    Thanks for sharing that! I am not a part of the dev team in any way, but it always feels great when people find inspiration in historical gaming and any learning associated with it. There are worse ways to spend ones time.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Should Chinese Chinamen even be allowed to play EBII? Let's discuss!

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    Well, well, well, I knew it! A spy from Beijing! We got him, guys.

    All kidding aside, sorry if I offended you.

    That being said, this satirical post of mine is the culmination of frustration if you've been paying attention to my posts at all in this sub-forum. I'm like THE one guy here needling and pushing for more inclusion of Chinese stuff as I find it odd to exclude them from the game in almost every aspect. Not saying they should be made a faction due to the hard-coded limits of the M2TW campaign map, but this thread, if anything, is a subtle jab at EBII, not exactly at actual Chinese people.

    Would be really rough gameplay wise tbh as you said with the hard coded limits. I don't think the newer total wars allow for such total conversions yet though either right? So I presume within a Total War game's format we're kind of screwed, since if one were to make an east asian centric total war including parts of central asia, etc, it'd have to never include anything west. (I think we'd run out of provinces to even cover something like the SEA region or India which all had historical interactions with east asian entities)

    Maybe add in certain buildings/policies in the mod to reflect the silk road trade and other activites; I think this is the best way to include the chinese interactions, especially at that stage with perhaps the ability to construct more and have increased presence in the central asia, bactrian/ indus region later on. A long time ago I read about something about a war for horses or something in which a han general marched his army through a desert to attack the hellenic lads around the indus region for nisean horses or whatever.

    I want to shitfling here too but idk if moderation will nuke me hahaha, got like 1 warning from a long time ago
    炸鸡

  6. #26
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Gatorade, is it in you?
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    Default Re: Should Chinese Chinamen even be allowed to play EBII? Let's discuss!

    Quote Originally Posted by BroskiDerpman View Post
    Would be really rough gameplay wise tbh as you said with the hard coded limits. I don't think the newer total wars allow for such total conversions yet though either right? So I presume within a Total War game's format we're kind of screwed, since if one were to make an east asian centric total war including parts of central asia, etc, it'd have to never include anything west. (I think we'd run out of provinces to even cover something like the SEA region or India which all had historical interactions with east asian entities)
    With the current hardcoded limits that SEGA/CA doesn't seem interested in ever relinquishing for their longtime fans, it's virtually impossible or incredibly unfeasible since you'd have to sacrifice provinces everywhere to include the other half of Asia. It would probably be wiser to create an entirely different mod focused on India, Central Asia, China, Southeast Asia, etc.

    Maybe add in certain buildings/policies in the mod to reflect the silk road trade and other activites; I think this is the best way to include the chinese interactions, especially at that stage with perhaps the ability to construct more and have increased presence in the central asia, bactrian/ indus region later on. A long time ago I read about something about a war for horses or something in which a han general marched his army through a desert to attack the hellenic lads around the indus region for nisean horses or whatever.
    That would be the "War of the Heavenly Horses" waged by the forces of Emperor Wu of Han under Li Guangli and Shangguan Jie in 104-101 BC against "Dayuan" in Ferghana. At that point in time the region was still very Hellenistic Greek in culture (Alexandria Eschate), part of the Greco-Bactrian Kingdom overrun by Yuezhi nomads. It was fought over the issue of tribute, which was eventually secured by the Chinese. No surprise there, Emperor Wu and his capable generals like Wei Qing and Huo Qubing were on a roll back then.

    As for your suggestions, these are all workable solutions in my view. The game developers bring us this mod for free and spend their own spare time to deliver it to us, so I'm not going to fault them too much, but these things could certainly be put on a to-do list for sure. The game already has some Chinese ancillaries for factions like the Saka, but these are rather tepid and marginal to the game as a whole. They don't really reflect the profound economic changes that occurred with the growth of trading networks by the 1st centuries BC and AD between the Chinese and Roman worlds, with India located in between as a central hub, even more so than Persia. The Roman Periplus of the Erythraean Sea makes that abundantly clear and the precursor to this was the Ptolemaic Greek seaborne trade with India from Egypt via the Red Sea.

    I want to shitfling here too but idk if moderation will nuke me hahaha, got like 1 warning from a long time ago
    Aha! I knew it! We're under attack from Beijing operatives! Beat the drums, ring the gongs, man the towers, and sound the alarms!

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