Should Chinese Chinamen even be allowed to play EBII? Let's discuss!

[Roma_Victrix]

Firstly, I just wanna congratulate EBII on excluding one of the largest empires of Eurasia from the game, and no, not the Mauryan Empire of India, you big silly! I'm talking about the Warring States of China! At the time of our start date of 272 BC these were being consolidated under the State of Qin that would unify China as the Qin dynasty, before collapsing and being replaced by the Han dynasty by 202 BC. On the date of its founding, the latter was almost the size of the Roman Empire when founded by Augustus in 27 BC, at the very least larger than the contemporary Roman Republic following the Second Punic War at the end of the 3rd century BC. It would continue to expand as well, swallowing everything south of the Yangzi River and moving into northern Vietnam along with northern Korea, stretching out into the Tarim Basin of Xinjiang by the reign of Emperor Wu of Han, becoming comparable in size to the Roman Empire at its maximum extent under emperor Trajan.

The decision by EBII to exclude China - and most of India - from the game is an excellent choice, but it doesn't go nearly far enough. We need to put China in its place and anyone who even dares to speak a Chinese dialect as a native language. We need to track down all ISPs who attempt to download the game from locations in the People's Republic of China, the Republic of China in Taiwan, the special administrative regions of Hong Kong and Macau, and the city-state of Singapore, and block them all from now until the end of time. None of them should be allowed to even see our game. A great firewall should be constructed to block them from even knowing about EBII, let alone playing it, which they clearly do not deserve. The very idea of China or Chinese anything should be cleansed from the game as well, including those ancillaries received by the Saka and other factions such as the Han silk trader and the Zhang Qian traveling diplomat.

EBII should also ban and blacklist any mention of Chinese New Years on this sub-forum and we should stand in solidarity with the Tibetan independence movement.

Who's with me!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

/s if it wasn't clear.

[Septentrionalis]

You Amelican pigdog! You will be solly fol youl wolds!

[Aleksander the Average]

pretty sure the total war series is banned in china anyway... something about their "historical accuracy" laws

[Roma_Victrix]

You Amelican pigdog! You will be solly fol youl wolds!

Catch me if you can, China man! I've got one foot on your soil and the other planted firmly on that of an American embassy.

Also, Taiwan number one!

pretty sure the total war series is banned in china anyway... something about their "historical accuracy" laws

Ah yes, because Chinese territorial integrity and its current borders have always existed the way they are right now, in the far southwest and even in Inner Mongolia, going all the way back to the Bronze Age.

Except for the territories China has lost in northern Vietnam and northern Korea. Those must be restored in order to restore the great reputation and legacy of Zhongguo.

[Septentrionalis]

Also, Taiwan number one!

Haha, hilarious! I wonder if it's you playing that. Never been to Old Virginny, but could imagine the accent being like that. Anyways, I do not recognize the game but it looks really Operation Flashpointesque; maybe an ArmA mod?

On the serious side, I thank you for the history recap. My own perspective is a bit Eurocentric unfortunately, and it would do good to read up more on the classical civilizations of the Far East that clearly rival those of Europe. I have often wondered what it would be like to have Eastern Asia included in the game. Would probably make the end turn bit really long, but sending navies and diplomats to Chi... Taiwan as Rome would surely be interesting.

[Roma_Victrix]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Indeed.

No.

I want Many more Caucasian Warrior

That's racist. You're CANCELLED (on Twitter at least)!

Haha, hilarious! I wonder if it's you playing that. Never been to Old Virginny, but could imagine the accent being like that. Anyways, I do not recognize the game but it looks really Operation Flashpointesque; maybe an ArmA mod?

I'm actually originally from California, and everyone in northern Virginia sounds like a typical Yank, while it's really the southern part of Virginia where most folk sound Southern.

On the serious side, I thank you for the history recap. My own perspective is a bit Eurocentric unfortunately, and it would do good to read up more on the classical civilizations of the Far East that clearly rival those of Europe. I have often wondered what it would be like to have Eastern Asia included in the game. Would probably make the end turn bit really long, but sending navies and diplomats to Chi... Taiwan as Rome would surely be interesting.

Oh it would be entirely unfeasible to include East Asia in the game due to the hardcoded limits regarding the number of available provinces, so I'm joking around more than filing an actual complaint. That being said, if the hardcoded limits were not a problem, then it actually would be a strange choice to exclude all of India and China from the game, considering their enormous economic importance in Eurasia, let alone their interactions with and conquests of neighboring peoples. Presently our game includes a bit of South Asia, basically Pakistan and the western fringes of India, while stretching into Central Asia all the way into the borderlands of what are today's Xinjiang autonomous region in northwestern China. So, in a way China is included in the game, an incredibly tiny portion that wasn't yet part of the Chinese empire, though. There are also the ancillaries I mentioned in the OP, but those are only available to relevant eastern factions.

[Septentrionalis]

Also, Taiwan number one!

"Who you have been calling in Taiwan boy?!"

[Rad]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Khevsur]

No.

I want Many more Caucasian Warrior

[qwertykov]

Absolutely Not! No Chinaman. This is a Whiteman group.

[Roma_Victrix]

Absolutely Not! No Chinaman. This is a Whiteman group.

I can't tell if this is subtle sarcasm or just purely blunt racism & white supremacy without any kind of mask over it.

In either case I said nothing about excluding non-whites like the Mongols, Koreans, Japanese, Vietnamese, Thai, Cambodians, Burmese, Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Nepalese, Ethiopians, Eritreans, Egyptians, etc. It's just the Chinamen I'm talking about.

[Septentrionalis]

I'm actually originally from California, and everyone in northern Virginia sounds like a typical Yank, while it's really the southern part of Virginia where most folk sound Southern.

Thanks for letting me learn something! I did not quite realize how far up north Virginia really is because I have always placed it in the South in some mental map of mine. It is actually right there by the big cities of Maryland that I would never consider southern. Then again, things need to start somewhere.

Oh it would be entirely unfeasible to include East Asia in the game due to the hardcoded limits regarding the number of available provinces, so I'm joking around more than filing an actual complaint. That being said, if the hardcoded limits were not a problem, then it actually would be a strange choice to exclude all of India and China from the game, considering their enormous economic importance in Eurasia, let alone their interactions with and conquests of neighboring peoples. Presently our game includes a bit of South Asia, basically Pakistan and the western fringes of India, while stretching into Central Asia all the way into the borderlands of what are today's Xinjiang autonomous region in northwestern China. So, in a way China is included in the game, an incredibly tiny portion that wasn't yet part of the Chinese empire, though. There are also the ancillaries I mentioned in the OP, but those are only available to relevant eastern factions.

I agree and I was also thinking about it in terms of having the Total War conversion of ones dreams. China is really convenient to leave out because in the timeframe of the game there were very few interactions with the eastern empires and the western ones, and the few through several proxies in between. It would be a tough nut trying to balance the game as well so that neither extreme of the map can blitz the other one without great effort. But then again, these games are not about sticking to the historical record anyway but about experimenting with speculative scenarious of what if some other nation gained the upper hand at a crucial moment.

I will patiently remain in wait of the great TW modification that will allow our Epeirote-Taiwanian alliance conspire together with our Inuit friends in overthrowing the evil Chinese Chinaman empire.

[Roma_Victrix]

Thanks for letting me learn something! I did not quite realize how far up north Virginia really is because I have always placed it in the South in some mental map of mine. It is actually right there by the big cities of Maryland that I would never consider southern. Then again, things need to start somewhere.

I'm basically living on the other side of the Potomac River from Washington D.C., so the White House and Capitol Building are like within an hour's drive from where I am.

I agree and I was also thinking about it in terms of having the Total War conversion of ones dreams. China is really convenient to leave out because in the timeframe of the game there were very few interactions with the eastern empires and the western ones, and the few through several proxies in between. It would be a tough nut trying to balance the game as well so that neither extreme of the map can blitz the other one without great effort. But then again, these games are not about sticking to the historical record anyway but about experimenting with speculative scenarious of what if some other nation gained the upper hand at a crucial moment.

I will patiently remain in wait of the great TW modification that will allow our Epeirote-Taiwanian alliance conspire together with our Inuit friends in overthrowing the evil Chinese Chinaman empire.

Gotta throw the Inuits in there somehow. To steal a line from Tina Fey: Alaska can see the Han dynasty from its house.

[Septentrionalis]

I'm basically living on the other side of the Potomac River from Washington D.C., so the White House and Capitol Building are like within an hour's drive from where I am.

That too. Forgive me for straying from the subject, but all throughout the countless hours of playing Fallout 3, I never realized that a big part of the game takes place in what would have been Virginia and not in DC. Which I associate with Maryland anyway in despite of the special federal status. Now that I think of it, it must be the few people from Maryland that I know IRL who refer to Washington as if it was something of theirs and who root for the Skins and give me hard time for my cheesehead tendencies.

[Roma_Victrix]

That too. Forgive me for straying from the subject, but all throughout the countless hours of playing Fallout 3, I never realized that a big part of the game takes place in what would have been Virginia and not in DC. Which I associate with Maryland anyway in despite of the special federal status. Now that I think of it, it must be the few people from Maryland that I know IRL who refer to Washington as if it was something of theirs and who root for the Skins and give me hard time for my cheesehead tendencies.

Virtually everyone from North Virginia is also a Redskins fan, those that watch football at least.

[Septentrionalis]

those that watch football at least.

I really hope that you have not sided with Sakarbaal. As far as I know, it is no coincidence that Punic and puny sound the same.

[Grimmy]

Firstly, I just wanna congratulate EBII on excluding one of the largest empires of Eurasia from the game, and no, not the Mauryan Empire of India, you big silly! I'm talking about the Warring States of China! At the time of our start date of 272 BC these were being consolidated under the State of Qin that would unify China as the Qin dynasty, before collapsing and being replaced by the Han dynasty by 202 BC. On the date of its founding, the latter was almost the size of the Roman Empire when founded by Augustus in 27 BC, at the very least larger than the contemporary Roman Republic following the Second Punic War at the end of the 3rd century BC. It would continue to expand as well, swallowing everything south of the Yangzi River and moving into northern Vietnam along with northern Korea, stretching out into the Tarim Basin of Xinjiang by the reign of Emperor Wu of Han, becoming comparable in size to the Roman Empire at its maximum extent under emperor Trajan.

The decision by EBII to exclude China - and most of India - from the game is an excellent choice, but it doesn't go nearly far enough. We need to put China in its place and anyone who even dares to speak a Chinese dialect as a native language. We need to track down all ISPs who attempt to download the game from locations in the People's Republic of China, the Republic of China in Taiwan, the special administrative regions of Hong Kong and Macau, and the city-state of Singapore, and block them all from now until the end of time. None of them should be allowed to even see our game. A great firewall should be constructed to block them from even knowing about EBII, let alone playing it, which they clearly do not deserve. The very idea of China or Chinese anything should be cleansed from the game as well, including those ancillaries received by the Saka and other factions such as the Han silk trader and the Zhang Qian traveling diplomat.

EBII should also ban and blacklist any mention of Chinese New Years on this sub-forum and we should stand in solidarity with the Tibetan independence movement.

Who's with me!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

/s if it wasn't clear.

Oh man. Don't let the WalMartians here you saying that.
They'll send their spandex mama army after you.

[Jormungand]

As a Chinese player of EB since 2010, some of the stuff posted here, even in sarcastic jest, is a bit sad to look at. Especially the mocking the accent and shameful display stuff.

I see more and more of 'them Chinese' posts around online these days, like the expectation is that there aren't any of us playing EB, browsing posts, etc.

Playing Europa Barbarorum 1 got me through the end of high school, where despite being bullied, managed to immerse myself into great environments and histories of ages past. It allowed me to escape - where it was a great relief to imagine being in the Hellenistic era (aided by other media such as Alexander and docus like Decisive Battles, Time Commanders, Colleen McCullough's Masters of Rome series).

Really grateful to EB for that. If there was a great firewall put up against us Chinese (and I know it was in jest) it would have well barred me from having all that fun!

Roma-Victrix, I've had a lot of fun playing with your music mods, especially the RTW:MTWII one, and am very grateful for your making them. They're an essential fix in all of my playthroughs. While not being personally offended by your usage of 'Chinaman', some of your US Asians might find that word on par to 'n***er' in its historical usage and modern meaning. Just to point that out.

[BroskiDerpman]

As a Chinese player of EB since 2010, some of the stuff posted here, even in sarcastic jest, is a bit sad to look at. Especially the mocking the accent and shameful display stuff.

I see more and more of 'them Chinese' posts around online these days, like the expectation is that there aren't any of us playing EB, browsing posts, etc.

Playing Europa Barbarorum 1 got me through the end of high school, where despite being bullied, managed to immerse myself into great environments and histories of ages past. It allowed me to escape - where it was a great relief to imagine being in the Hellenistic era (aided by other media such as Alexander and docus like Decisive Battles, Time Commanders, Colleen McCullough's Masters of Rome series).

Really grateful to EB for that. If there was a great firewall put up against us Chinese (and I know it was in jest) it would have well barred me from having all that fun!

Roma-Victrix, I've had a lot of fun playing with your music mods, especially the RTW:MTWII one, and am very grateful for your making them. They're an essential fix in all of my playthroughs. While not being personally offended by your usage of 'Chinaman', some of your US Asians might find that word on par to 'n***er' in its historical usage and modern meaning. Just to point that out.

You are too polite in response lmao. Just happened to check out EB2 recently after my initial poor impression a few years back due to the release being unpolished (initial release, i think it was either volound or cosmic contrarian from youtube that summed up my thoughts) and I see that what once would've gotten me and some other lads warned by the moderation for shitflinging is apparently fine nowadays in the modding section; though I am aware that if i back for fun i'll probably get punished as my shitflinging is too spicy like indian curry.

[Septentrionalis]

As a Chinese player of EB since 2010, some of the stuff posted here, even in sarcastic jest, is a bit sad to look at. Especially the mocking the accent and shameful display stuff.

I was the one making a primitive joke featuring a fictional stereotype of a Chinese accent. A real Chinese accent of course sounds nothing like the mock-up that I produced. When I first arrived in the US, I already had a fairly good command of the English language in writing. I still had a terrible accent and was often unsure how a word that I knew how to spell should even be pronounced let alone succeeding in pronouncing it.

The most degrading thing I remember was when people refused to take me seriously because of my accent. Some folks would not listen to what I said but how I said it. I could always talk back to my coworkers or buddies, but I disliked particularly when a customer at work would insult me as there was no level ground for me to work on. I urge you all to be very careful in giving a hard time to those that do not have the luxury of defending themselves, if you want to maintain your personal integrity. Those situations include being a superior to someone or a customer in a market economy. The latter of course is something that you Chinese Chinamen have no concept of. Oh, damn, there I go again!

Okay, seriously, I am not very proud of finding myself making you feel what I myself disliked so much. An unusually zany kind of humor has set up shop here because of certain members (like the original poster) and their mindless cronies (that's me!), but rest assured, we do not mean to discriminate. In all honesty, I am happy to have you onboard here. Out of principle, I do not want to apologize for humor, but if you want to discuss history, strategy gaming, or any of the many topics we find interesting here, I will definitely take you seriously. And perhaps give it a bit more thought the next time before I make stupid accent jokes.

You are too polite in response lmao.

I too commend Jormungand for making his point in a very mature way.

I see that what once would've gotten me and some other lads warned by the moderation for shitflinging is apparently fine nowadays in the modding section

True; this subforum seems to tolerate quite a bit. Then again, we do not really find it hard to breath in here because of overcrowding. The funny threads are easy to avoid if one does not like them, but I hope that we can all tolerate those as long as flooding the zany content does not make it harder to follow the serious EBII content.