The latest complain about Turkey thread (get your daily Turkish delight of bad publicity here)!

[alhoon]

You're asking a question about Turkey's position from a viewpoint that accepts 100% of what Greeks claim in the Aegean. With such a subjective viewpoint you're trying to discuss the science behind it.

Exactly!
+ I want to discuss why Turkey funds research on a sea that doesn't belong to it.
(NOTE: We all do that. We do stuff for say the Pacific Ocean or Mediterranean outside of Spain etc. I am just suspicious of Turkey)

It's pointless.

I disagree.

[ioannis76]

Perhaps he is the last Diadochi, Alexander's heir

If the Greek method works, it should be copied in all other European countries as a deterrent to illegal immigrants.

The Greek method of stopping "refugees"? I think you expect too much of this administration:



They stopped the "refugees" in Evros, just to appease the "nationalist" wing of their voters (which is a conglomeration of individuals whose political views range from the centre-left to the far right), and now they do what the Right in Greece does best.

[Nebaki]

The Greek method of stopping "refugees"? I think you expect too much of this administration:



They stopped the "refugees" in Evros, just to appease the "nationalist" wing of their voters (which is a conglomeration of individuals whose political views range from the centre-left to the far right), and now they do what the Right in Greece does best.

Why you are posting that here when you got your own Thread on the Academy Section Mr.Greek? https://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?801421-The-latest-complain-about-Turkey-thread-(get-your-daily-Turkish-delight-of-bad-publicity-here)!/page3




Isn´t that funny that Greek Television only discussing daily about Turkey?

[ioannis76]

Isn´t that funny that Greek Television only discussing daily about Turkey?

That's not from Greek television. Greek tv channels got 11 million euros to keep a lid on stuff like that, but we live in the age of the internet. Apparently, the Turkish military was interested in blocking the fence that is being built throughout the border, and attempted to stop the works, in order to be able to threaten with a renewed influx of "refugees". Yet the Greek military seems to have thwarted that, and the fence is starting again. . It is therefore related with the issue of the "refugee" influx.

[PointOfViewGun]

Skai is a TV channel in Greece. They just happen to air online as well like every single other channel does these days.

[Aexodus]

Were Turkish troops in Greece?

[Beorn]

For once, Ioannis is correct (apart from the fact that Media got ~30M from government, plus an additional ~20M debt relief).
English media reported it first, after a couple of days greek media picked it up from there, and THEN the major news networks spined-off their own tale, always following the (conflicting) Foreign Affairs Ministry line. I am battling with sleep ATM, I will come back tomorrow with a more detailed and up-to-date report

[ioannis76]

Were Turkish troops in Greece?

Greeks government emphatically says no, but if we accept this, then the question arises as to why on earth the Greek ministry of foreign affairs issued an official protest toward the Turkish government. The contents of the protest were not made public.
It appears the media attempted to cover it up, but after the UK media publicised it, they couldn't keep a lid on it any longer. The conclusion that comes from this is that our neighbor is always probing our defenses in sea, air and now, land. Negotiations, measures for building trust, etc, are all pointless. Any talks with Turkey must cease, and we should allow our military to do its job.

[Nebaki]

Were Turkish troops in Greece?

According to a Greek which sees Istanbul as something else and aswell the entire land mass of Libya then i guess they was

[Tureuki]

https://twitter.com/Kafamag0re__/sta...76001893744641

Turkey and Greece in a nutshell, border guards swearing at each other like kiddos :p

[Nebaki]

https://twitter.com/Kafamag0re__/sta...76001893744641

Turkey and Greece in a nutshell, border guards swearing at each other like kiddos :p

I bet the Turkish Soldier is just on his Watch Outpost while some Greeks Soldiers are Drunk and provocating him with high beam. I know this because someone that i know made his conscription on that Border and how some of the Greek Soldiers are acting there is ridiculous, on a different Border of Turkey there would be Shots fired.

[Odenat]

I bet the Turkish Soldier is just on his Watch Outpost while some Greeks Soldiers are Drunk and provocating him with high beam. I know this because someone that i know made his conscription on that Border and how some of the Greek Soldiers are acting there is ridiculous, on a different Border of Turkey there would be Shots fired.

Well, i was a soldier at Turkish-Syrian border. We were playing chess with Syrian soldiers by putting the table right on the border lol. Those were good times, before Assad went nuts and started massacring his own people. Those Syrian soldiers were generally very well educated and not so different from us. Most of the girls at Syrian side were not even wearing headscarfs and they were generally blond. And now, it is all fire and ashes and the only thing that comes from Syria is endless column of refugees.

I laugh each time i hear Greeks dreaming of getting Byzantium back. Believe me, you won't like having borders with Syria, Irak and Iran.

[ioannis76]

https://twitter.com/Kafamag0re__/sta...76001893744641

Turkey and Greece in a nutshell, border guards swearing at each other like kiddos :p

Thanks for posting the video. As we can see, it's the turkish side that is shining the light on the Greek side. We know this from the sound of the voice (the Greek is from the receiving side of the floodlight).
This information is for Nebaki.

Furthermore, there have been instances when Greek troops were attacked by the turkish troops. The most well known is the 1986 incident where soldier Zisis Karagogos was murdered (he made the mistake of being friendly with his Turkish counterpart, and he attempted to give the turkish soldier a cigarette, after leaving his weapon on the Greek side). The murder triggered a firefight in which the Greeks had no more casualties, whereas there were multiple casualties on the turkish side.

Anyway, regarding the current incident, the turkish jandirma are now on their side of the border (there is a video on the article. I could not post the video on its own):
https://www.real.gr/koinonia/arthro/...komeio-641350/

[PointOfViewGun]

Yes, we see the Turkish side shining a light on the Greek side in response to the Greek man shouting at "Turkiii"

Also, from Los Angeles Times article about the incident from 1986:

Greek sources said the incident occurred when a three-man Greek patrol challenged Turkish soldiers about 100 yards inside Greek territory. Sources said Greek troops appeared to be mobilizing on the border following the incident.

However, Turkish officials said the incident began when two Greek soldiers crossed the border and were warned to draw back. At that point, the Turks said, a Greek squad fired across the border, killing a Turkish private. Other Turkish troops rushed to the scene and in the ensuing battle a Greek soldier and a Turkish lieutenant were killed, the officials said.

[Beorn]

https://twitter.com/Kafamag0re__/sta...76001893744641

Turkey and Greece in a nutshell, border guards swearing at each other like kiddos :p

What a bunch of morons

[ioannis76]

Yes, we see the Turkish side shining a light on the Greek side in response to the Greek man shouting at "Turkiii"

At the start of the video the floodlight is already shining on the Greek guard. How do you know that it's the Greek guard who starts shouting first?
Shining a floodlight on an armed guard is an act of aggression, as you are actively attempting to temporarily "blind" him. Shouting, on the other hand, is not. It's the turkish side that is using its equipment on the Greek side, and not vice versa.
Anyway, here is a funny incident, where the Greeks are trolling the Turk guards on the border, as their turkish-designed vehicle managed to get stuck on a... dirt road, with a few inches of mud:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad8YW6giXMk
It took a farming tractor to get the vehicle out of there. The problem is turkish engineering ingenuity, which put a heavy frame on a four wheel chassis, resulting in an excess of pressure on the ground.

What a bunch of morons

I wonder how you would react if someone was shining a powerful light in your eyes in the night, while you were responsible for guarding an area. While you couldn't see, the side of the person blinding you (which is also armed), might very well putting you in their scopes, or personnel of the other side might very easily be trying to sneak up on you. But I guess that such concernes are small print to some.

[PointOfViewGun]

At the start of the video the floodlight is already shining on the Greek guard. How do you know that it's the Greek guard who starts shouting first?
Shining a floodlight on an armed guard is an act of aggression, as you are actively attempting to temporarily "blind" him. Shouting, on the other hand, is not. It's the turkish side that is using its equipment on the Greek side, and not vice versa.
Anyway, here is a funny incident, where the Greeks are trolling the Turk guards on the border, as their turkish-designed vehicle managed to get stuck on a... dirt road, with a few inches of mud:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad8YW6giXMk
It took a farming tractor to get the vehicle out of there. The problem is turkish engineering ingenuity, which put a heavy frame on a four wheel chassis, resulting in an excess of pressure on the ground.

Nope. You can clearly see the light is not shinning on the Greeks. It's shinning to the side. You simply see the general lighting of the post. That is constant through out the video while we see the beam moving around and shining at the Greeks. The video starts with the Greek guy shouting "Turkii" and cursing. You can see that the Turkish post is shining the light around to spot where the sound is coming from as the beam gets fixed on the Greek post later on. Since we watch from the Greek point of view and the Turkish post is far away we don't exactly know where the Greeks shine their beam at every point. Though we know for a fact that they're also shine it as it becomes visible on the trees close by to the Greek post. Then both sides shout curses at each other as they shine a light. It's a quite childish display.

The YouTube video you post there showing a tractor pulling an armed vehicle doesn't really show a vehicle stuck on mud. It's likely of a vehicle that broke down and being pulled for maintenance.

It's really petty that you bank on such content to boast. You're not really accomplishing anything here other than to belittle Greeks.

[ioannis76]

Yes, we see the Turkish side shining a light on the Greek side in response to the Greek man shouting at "Turkiii"

Also, from Los Angeles Times article about the incident from 1986:

No, there are no "Greek sources" that claimed that "the Greeks challenged the Turks".

Ο Ζήσης Καραγώγος, από τον Ασκό Θεσσαλονίκης, είχε περάσει μερικά χρόνια της ζωής του στη Γερμανία και ήξερε λίγα τουρκικά, προφανώς από τις συναναστροφές του με Τούρκους μετανάστες, γνώριζε τον έναν από τους δύο Τούρκους φαντάρους και κατευθύνθηκε προς το μέρος του, αφήνοντας όπως φαίνεται σε μια άκρη το όπλο και το κράνος του.
Ξαφνικά δέχτηκε τελείως αναίτια και ανεξήγητα τα πυρά από τον άλλο Τούρκο και έπεσε, βαριά τραυματισμένος στην κοίτη του ποταμού. Ο Βασιλός και ο Καραγιάννης, έτρεξαν να καλυφθούν και άρχισαν να ανταποδίδουν τους πυροβολισμούς, αν και το όπλο του Βασιλού έπαθε προσωρινά εμπλοκή.

https://www.protothema.gr/stories/ar...-evro-to-1986/

And I translate:
Zisis Karagogos, from Askos of Thessaloniki, had spent some years in Germany and spoke some turkish, obviously from hanging out with Turkish immigrants. He knew one of the two turkish soldiers and walked towards him, leaving, it seems, his weapon and helm. All of a sudden, he was inexplicably and without provocation fired upon by the other Turk, and he fell, heavily wounded on the bank of the river. Vasilos and Karagiannis run to take cover, and started firing back, although the weapon of Vasilos temporarily jammed.

Turkey attempted to escalate the situation later on the same day.

Nope. You can clearly see the light is not shinning on the Greeks. It's shinning to the side.

Go to the tenth second and you will see where it shines. It's possible that the Greeks are on patrol, and not on a non-moving post. The issue with turkish flootlights shining on Greek posts has been in the Greek media since 2018.

The YouTube video you post there showing a tractor pulling an armed vehicle doesn't really show a vehicle stuck on mud.

That's signature material right there. It didn't break down. It got stuck. And it would be even worse to assume that it broke down, in an area near its base, where there would be full access to maintenance crews and equipment. I dare not think what would happen in a remote battlefield. But then again, the turkish "Kirpi" vehicle kills (by capsizing) more troops than enemy combatans do.

[PointOfViewGun]

No, there are no "Greek sources" that claimed that "the Greeks challenged the Turks".
https://www.protothema.gr/stories/ar...-evro-to-1986/
And I translate:
Zisis Karagogos, from Askos of Thessaloniki, had spent some years in Germany and spoke some turkish, obviously from hanging out with Turkish immigrants. He knew one of the two turkish soldiers and walked towards him, leaving, it seems, his weapon and helm. All of a sudden, he was inexplicably and without provocation fired upon by the other Turk, and he fell, heavily wounded on the bank of the river. Vasilos and Karagiannis run to take cover, and started firing back, although the weapon of Vasilos temporarily jammed.
Turkey attempted to escalate the situation later on the same day.

Of course there wouldn't be a Greek source that claimed the Greeks challenged the Turks just like there is no Turkish source that claimed the Turks challenged the Greeks. You are merely presenting your side as the gospel. Nothing more.

Go to the tenth second and you will see where it shines. It's possible that the Greeks are on patrol, and not on a non-moving post. The issue with turkish flootlights shining on Greek posts has been in the Greek media since 2018.

The tenth second on that video is seconds after the Greek guys starts shouting at the post. It shows what I described. It's clear that the post they're shouting to directed their beam at the Greek post in response to the calls.

That's signature material right there. It didn't break down. It got stuck. And it would be even worse to assume that it broke down, in an area near its base, where there would be full access to maintenance crews and equipment. I dare not think what would happen in a remote battlefield. But then again, the turkish "Kirpi" vehicle kills (by capsizing) more troops than enemy combatans do.

Sigh... You really are belittling your own position with that. It's a kindergarden level argumentation that doesn't really accomplish anything. Good luck with that.

[ioannis76]

Of course there wouldn't be a Greek source that claimed the Greeks challenged the Turks

So, you are claiming that the article that you yourself posted is lying:

Yes, we see the Turkish side shining a light on the Greek side in response to the Greek man shouting at "Turkiii"

Also, from Los Angeles Times article about the incident from 1986:

Greek sources said the incident occurred when a three-man Greek patrol challenged Turkish soldiers about 100 yards inside Greek territory.

The article you posted stated that Greek sources said that the incident occured when a three man Greek patrol challenged Turkish soldiers. Interesting how you say one thing now and then just turn it around.