The latest complain about Turkey thread (get your daily Turkish delight of bad publicity here)!

[TheLeft]

I get it. If my country had spent 400 years as Turkish Slaves, I'd probably have a bit of grudge against them too. But... for citizens of countries who had a spine... Meh...

[alhoon]

The nationality of a person making an argument is off-topic. Please address the argument and not the nationality of the person making the argument.

[swabian]

What is the benefit of Turkey? Well, it clearly shows how utterly worthless the NATO actually is. Turks can basically peepee on international rights, march into Syria, commit crimes against the Kurds there (which is why they went there in the first place) and now, declare they have strategic interest in Lybia. If the NATO had any meaning, it would, of course, cast out Turkey and consider to declare Turkey a target.

[PointOfViewGun]

What is the benefit of Turkey? Well, it clearly shows how utterly worthless the NATO actually is. Turks can basically peepee on international rights, march into Syria, commit crimes against the Kurds there (which is why they went there in the first place) and now, declare they have strategic interest in Lybia. If the NATO had any meaning, it would, of course, cast out Turkey and consider to declare Turkey a target.

Thank you for this entirely bigoted comment that has little facts to be grounded on. If NATO had really any meaning its member countries would not become breeding grounds for PKK members, or give safe haven to or outright collaborate with a group known for trying to take over the Turkish government for decades.

[swabian]

Thank you for this entirely bigoted comment that has little facts to be grounded on. If NATO had really any meaning its member countries would not become breeding grounds for PKK members, or give safe haven to or outright collaborate with a group known for trying to take over the Turkish government for decades.

"Breeding ground for the PKK", sure. If the Turks would go and create order there, i'd be all for it. But, of course, this is not happening. Instead, the Erdoganists try to hunt down Kurds, because they hilariously fear them. Erdogan is seeking enemies on the outside in order to create solidarity with his regime. For how long do you thing this BS will last? Save us all some hassle and pull out, der Turks. We all know how this is going to end (more refugees in Germany).

[PointOfViewGun]

"Breeding ground for the PKK", sure. If the Turks would go and create order there, i'd be all for it. But, of course, this is not happening. Instead, the Erdoganists try to hunt down Kurds, because they hilariously fear them. Erdogan is seeking enemies on the outside in order to create solidarity with his regime. For how long do you thing this BS will last? Save us all some hassle and pull out, der Turks. We all know how this is going to end (more refugees in Germany).

The problem was in existence long before Erdoğan came to power. His contribution to it was merely to prolong it. It's understandable though you try to shift the focus to him away from your double standards on how NATO acts. It's a well known fact that countries like Germany and France were breeding grounds for PKK. Greece, on the other hand, helped their leader to get away only to get caught red-handed. European states only started acting against PKK existence in their country after they started to cause problems there. It was, and likely still is, OK when PKK was causing problems against only Turkey. That's your NATO.

[swabian]

Mhm. It's all Germany's and France's fault. But of course. The poor, poor victim of Turkey. Where is another Atatürk when we need him?!

[Kyriakos]

Thank you for this entirely bigoted comment that has little facts to be grounded on. If NATO had really any meaning its member countries would not become breeding grounds for PKK members, or give safe haven to or outright collaborate with a group known for trying to take over the Turkish government for decades.

The above also describes one country: Turkey

[PointOfViewGun]

The above also describes one country: Turkey

So, 3 Greek ministers resigned because they felt like it back in 90s?

[Kyriakos]

No one here cares about Ocalan, and he wasn't even allowed to stay. Besides, hasn't he been rotting with mind-altering drugs hosed into him for the last two decades, in some cool white-cell turkish prison? Thou doth protest too much
The kurdish issue is that they are a people of 15 million (or who knows how many exactly) wanting a country, and kept as part of Turkey against their will. It doesn't take a mastermind to note that the issue isn't foreign countries supposedly breeding them, but their nationhood oppressed.
It is also way too greedy; I mean without the kurds you know how the 1919-23 war would have gone, so you really should have thanked them for helping you then, instead of massacring them when they were no longer useful...

[PointOfViewGun]

No one here cares about Ocalan, and he wasn't even allowed to stay. Besides, hasn't he been rotting with mind-altering drugs hosed into him for the last two decades, in some cool white-cell turkish prison? Thou doth protest too much
The kurdish issue is that they are a people of 15 million (or who knows how many exactly) wanting a country, and kept as part of Turkey against their will. It doesn't take a mastermind to note that the issue isn't foreign countries supposedly breeding them, but their nationhood oppressed.
It is also way too greedy; I mean without the kurds you know how the 1919-23 war would have gone, so you really should have thanked them for helping you then, instead of massacring them when they were no longer useful...

Amazing how you tried to dodge that like there is no tomorrow. Sigh...

[swabian]

I don't think Turkey as a people is a problem at all. It's Erdogan who is a problem. Once he's gone, which he will be soon, there is going to be a large power-vacuum in Turkey. They don't have a plan at all what comes after Erdogan. "We" (the NATO) need them to be in order and ready to function. They are in an important strategic position right there, geographically. They have young men who want to fight and we need them to fight for the right cause. There is no point in disrespecting them and treating them like our watch-dogs. They need to be pulled back into NATO or pushed out utterly; and soon.

[PointOfViewGun]

I don't think Turkey as a people is a problem at all. It's Erdogan who is a problem. Once he's gone, which he will be soon, there is going to be a large power-vacuum in Turkey. They don't have a plan at all what comes after Erdogan. "We" (the NATO) need them to be in order and ready to function. They are in an important strategic position right there, geographically. They have young men who want to fight and we need them to fight for the right cause. There is no point in disrespecting them and treating them like our watch-dogs. They need to be pulled back into NATO or pushed out utterly; and soon.

For decades NATO have been undermining Turkey fundamentally through various member state's support for various groups. First, get your own duties to the alliance in order before you spit on Turkey.

[Nebaki]

So, 3 Greek ministers resigned because they felt like it back in 90s?

"Greek PM: "If our sovereignty is challenged, we will respond militarily." Trump: "What if you lose to Turkey?" Greek PM: "We won't lose."


Source: https://twitter.com/oulosP/status/1216666322626498560


It depends, with Allies maybe a successful win little on the Ground

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Without? R.I.P

It is also way too greedy; I mean without the kurds you know how the 1919-23 war would have gone, so you really should have thanked them for helping you then, instead of massacring them when they were no longer useful...

What a hypocritical reply from someone as expected, but probably you should ask that your Grandfather or someone else on which Side your "Allies" was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_War_of_Independence

[alhoon]

I am soooo glad that both scientific and political things can be discussed in this forum and that there's a rant thread.

So, I am in a project workshop in France for a big scientific meeting that has to do with Analysis tools of Timeseries for Earth Observation, with a focus to Agricultural stuff. I will get on this later since it is a scientific thing.

Anyway, a Turkish professor gives a presentation of her projects that have to do with measuring Surface Sea Temperature (SST), Salinity, and Sea altimetry.
To calibrate and validate your models when it comes to satellite images, you need "ground truth" measurements. That one got several stations in the Aegean. Both Greek side and Turkish side.

And the question is: WHY does Turkey funds projects that have to do with the Aegean? They have a tiny sliver of it! They have no business making really nice models based on our sea that they have a tiny part of.
Anyway, the professor's students have used a couple of basic (but well grounded) techniques in the Aegean and a more advanced one in the Black Sea. So far they don't have a comparison and it's hard to make one for a different sea. I may or may not have suggested another site for ground truth, one in Crete that our uni has and the professor behind it that is top-notch (ESA boss for such things), that she had left outside her research area since it's not the Aegean sea but on the South side of Crete (Gavdos - Libyan sea) but I won't confirm anything of the sort in here.

[PointOfViewGun]

It's like an American asking why do people fly off east from New York when there is no other country in the world...

[alhoon]

- Do you disagree that with the recent Erdo rhetoric about our islands and Aegean and how Turkey has EEZ with Libya as if Crete is not in the way etc etc
+ Funding for a (nice and productive) project about the Aegean sea that Turkey has a tiiiiny sliver of is somewhat alarming?
(Political)

- Do you disagree that they should have used Timeseries from South of Crete even if it's not technically the Aegean, as it presents a larger sea area and valuable diversity in their site-gathering to test their models? The Black Sea is also a small closed sea so I am not sure it is as different as the Cretan Mare would be.
(Scientific - I don't have the answer)

- Do you think that comparing four methods of time series analysis (analysis of and prediction of Sea Surface Temperature) for both seas (instead of 2 in one sea and 2 different in the other sea) is worth the cost and time?
(Scientific - I don't have the answer and frankly I don't think anyone has the answer without a full-fledged analysis. The workshop was divided on the issue; we were happy to tell her to use her funds and students to do more work but not exactly willing to say that it WOULD be worth it)

- Do you have a background on remote sensing and/or time series analysis so we could discuss the scientific part of the above issue instead of me using broad and generic terms?
PS. My background is not remote sensing, it's geostatistics and spatial statistics. I cannot go too deep on Remote Sensing and environmental or biosphere stuff because my knowledge is limited. I am working on such kind of data and I have some familiarity with how the satellites work, but ... that's just the data I use.

[PointOfViewGun]

- Do you disagree that with the recent Erdo rhetoric about our islands and Aegean and how Turkey has EEZ with Libya as if Crete is not in the way etc etc
+ Funding for a (nice and productive) project about the Aegean sea that Turkey has a tiiiiny sliver of is somewhat alarming?
(Political)

- Do you disagree that they should have used Timeseries from South of Crete even if it's not technically the Aegean, as it presents a larger sea area and valuable diversity in their site-gathering to test their models? The Black Sea is also a small closed sea so I am not sure it is as different as the Cretan Mare would be.
(Scientific - I don't have the answer)

- Do you think that comparing four methods of time series analysis (analysis of and prediction of Sea Surface Temperature) for both seas (instead of 2 in one sea and 2 different in the other sea) is worth the cost and time?
(Scientific - I don't have the answer and frankly I don't think anyone has the answer without a full-fledged analysis. The workshop was divided on the issue; we were happy to tell her to use her funds and students to do more work but not exactly willing to say that it WOULD be worth it)

- Do you have a background on remote sensing and/or time series analysis so we could discuss the scientific part of the above issue instead of me using broad and generic terms?
PS. My background is not remote sensing, it's geostatistics and spatial statistics. I cannot go too deep on Remote Sensing and environmental or biosphere stuff because my knowledge is limited. I am working on such kind of data and I have some familiarity with how the satellites work, but ... that's just the data I use.

You didn't even try to understand what I said, didn't you? Your desire to discuss science here makes it even more ironic.

[alhoon]

I think I did understand what you said. BUT... the thread is not just for you. And this forum is also science.

[PointOfViewGun]

I think I did understand what you said. BUT... the thread is not just for you. And this forum is also science.

I'm not sure you have. You're asking a question about Turkey's position from a viewpoint that accepts 100% of what Greeks claim in the Aegean. With such a subjective viewpoint you're trying to discuss the science behind it. It's pointless.