WHY is SS Turns Per Year/Aging left so fast?

[Live2sculpt]

It's been YEARS, and yet SS Submods STILL don't seem to offer a decent option for a campaign that can progress at a reasonable pace. Campaign timescale in SS is too rushed for me to enjoy.

What is with this mad rush for 1 or just 2 turns per year and the rapid aging of characters?
Does it still default to 2 years per turn, but characters only AGE 6 months per turn? WTH?
Clearly this is a feature that SS users prefer, or multiple TPY options would have become well supported by now. But I just don't understand why.

This lack of support for 4TPY (much less 6TPY or 12TPY) has kept me from wanting to use SS for a looooonnnggg time now.

Have I missed a stable SS TPY Submod somewhere? Why is this even a thing for SS players? What is the appeal?

I'm frustrated now because SS is on of the last remaining stable M2TW overhaul mods available if I wish to play again.

[sullivanclan1]

the turns per year is fine. I would be more worried about how many turns each building and units can be made each turn. The Timescale is fine as it is but you can change if you want.

[Charles the Man]

BGRV is 12TPY. Fun if you're into a harder as well as longer game. There is also this resource for modding 12TPY yourself: https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...h-proper-aging

[Dekhatres]

but he is not looking to do any of the work, he demands it already done for him and ready to use, i mean it's been YEARS!!111! cmon guys

[Live2sculpt]

BGRV is 12TPY. Fun if you're into a harder as well as longer game. There is also this resource for modding 12TPY yourself: https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...h-proper-aging

Cheers Chuck! I hadn't realized BGR-V was also a TPY submod. Yes, I used to use GeD's TPY scripts all the time in years past, but always encountered mysterious CTD's when used with SS I just chose to give up on it here.

[Charles the Man]

You're most welcome. Anyone have any ideas what could cause CTD's with SS while modding TPY? I was going to try adapting GeD's scripts and it would be nice to have a heads up about possible issues. If I get it working I'll post the mod (assuming permissions are ok).

[Live2sculpt]

You're most welcome. Anyone have any ideas what could cause CTD's with SS while modding TPY? I was going to try adapting GeD's scripts and it would be nice to have a heads up about possible issues. If I get it working I'll post the mod (assuming permissions are ok).

I've been away from M2TW modding for several years now, but as I recall, SS had several sophisticated triggers associated with the capital settlements and/or named characters. It's all a bit vague to me now. I just remember throwing my hands up after 3 or 4 hours and going back to Deus lo Vult, which I knew how to edit without complications.

[Charles the Man]

Hm. Sounds like it will take a lot of learning :/ Haven't looked at the campaign_script much so no promises but I'll give it a go over the next week or so.

[Losthief]

Hm. Sounds like it will take a lot of learning :/ Haven't looked at the campaign_script much so no promises but I'll give it a go over the next week or so.

the submod section has turn per year mods, meneths, bgr, standalone (4 turns iirc) that might help as a baseline/example. Use the search function.

[Live2sculpt]

I HAVE done searches through the SS forums. What few I’ve found are either just 2TPY, or are left incomplete with unaddressed problems at the end of their threads. Mostly just say, “Go look at GeD’s scripts and do it yourself/ bye.” I’m just marveling at how this could still be the case after so many years. Back in 2013 it wasn’t so surprising, but now?

I spent hours in the past trying to use GeD's scripts to apply 4TPY to SS, and failed, and chose to hold off SS until someone else figures the mess out instead. I leave, get married, have kids, buy a house, come back... still nothing. A DECADE has gone by, and still people are saying, "Just look around and you'll find it. I'm sure it's not that hard to do it yourself. 2TPY is all you need anyway."

[Live2sculpt]

You're most welcome. Anyone have any ideas what could cause CTD's with SS while modding TPY? I was going to try adapting GeD's scripts and it would be nice to have a heads up about possible issues. If I get it working I'll post the mod (assuming permissions are ok).

I'm sorry I wasn't being helpful. As I said, it's been a while and all I remember is the frustration. It was also an earlier version of SS too, so perhaps conditions have changed. From what I recall it wasn't just the campaign script, but triggers in multiple files, and a manual searching and editing in each. I can remember having done it successfully in two other campaign mods around the same time, but being baffled and thwarted by the convoluted complexities of SS. Even when it wasn't crashing, my results re character aging etc. were never working as intended.

[Losthief]

I HAVE done searches through the SS forums. What few I’ve found are either just 2TPY, or are left incomplete with unaddressed problems at the end of their threads."

I get that they are incomplete or not 4tpy, why i said they are examples/baseline. The simple fact is if the demand was high enough for it, there would be a submod for it. Evidently there is not. GreenEyeDevil's scripts work fine, but balancing would require some legwork on your end.

Off the top of my head, changing the total turns (by your # of turns per year so 4x in ur case), reduce movement points (by a quarter), change income levels for merchents, build times, seige times.

GreenEyeDevils will do the aging (characters) part for you. The rest is up to your desire to have it balanced. Some of this was done by others in other submods (beyond changing turns per year) such as byg bgr V and meneths submod compliation, and i think HURB iirc. But again, you have to find the parts you want to copy over.

Or just play those mods/submods. Sorry im not 'more' help.

[Live2sculpt]

I get that they are incomplete or not 4tpy, why i said they are examples/baseline. The simple fact is if the demand was high enough for it, there would be a submod for it. Evidently there is not. GreenEyeDevil's scripts work fine, but balancing would require some legwork on your end.

Off the top of my head, changing the total turns (by your # of turns per year so 4x in ur case), reduce movement points (by a quarter), change income levels for merchents, build times, seige times.

GreenEyeDevils will do the aging (characters) part for you. The rest is up to your desire to have it balanced. Some of this was done by others in other submods (beyond changing turns per year) such as byg bgr V and meneths submod compliation, and i think HURB iirc. But again, you have to find the parts you want to copy over.

Or just play those mods/submods. Sorry im not 'more' help.

Nonsense, you've been quite helpful.
I'm just standing in shock that all these years later and a reliable 4TPY option for SS never became something enough players wanted to see.

[Charles the Man]

Well I for one would like the option. I'll try GeD's method this weekend for 4tpy. Figure it'll be easier to balance than 12. Been playing unmodded SSHIP and liking it a lot, so I'll be modding SSHIP instead of vanilla SS. Will be posting here any problems I run into.

[Jurand of Cracow]

There's been plenty of discrussions in the past in this respect, I believe.
My contribution was:

There're two additional issues:

1) the pace at which the characters (generals, agents) gain traits. The probabilities of gaining those traits are calibrated with a view of "how many turns is an average character in play". The aim is to make "leveling up" traits reasonable in time: they should get the higher and highest levels of a trait only after some time, and they should not get all of the traits. If you double the turns without re-calibrating the probabilities you'll get super-heroes, not historical generals: they will get the highest levels in their 20ties and then they'll get tons of other traits, also getting the highest levels within their life-span.
You may like it, but I feel it wouldn't feel historical.
(and re-calibration is rather laborious in the RTW/M2TW modding, especially for such an advanced mod)

2) how the players feel staying the whole campaign with the same generals. With 2TPY the change happens and the aging is palpable. You've got a young general with a bright future, but after 20 turns he's not so young anymore. With 4TPY is slows down much. Depending on how many turns the people play, you may stay only with 1-2 generations of generals, or you may see 5-6 (this is the number I usually get in my games, I tend to get bored with the games after 150-200 turns).
However, some people may like staying with the same generals, so it's a matter of taste.

JoC

[Æsir]

1) the pace at which the characters (generals, agents) gain traits. The probabilities of gaining those traits are calibrated with a view of "how many turns is an average character in play". The aim is to make "leveling up" traits reasonable in time: they should get the higher and highest levels of a trait only after some time, and they should not get all of the traits. If you double the turns without re-calibrating the probabilities you'll get super-heroes, not historical generals: they will get the highest levels in their 20ties and then they'll get tons of other traits, also getting the highest levels within their life-span.
You may like it, but I feel it wouldn't feel historical.
(and re-calibration is rather laborious in the RTW/M2TW modding, especially for such an advanced mod)

+1. IMHO it's the only main issue with Third Age Total War - all generals end up with maxed out traits, in TATW they are bad traits tho - your generals will become useless, completely mad alcoholics.

[Jurand of Cracow]

+1. IMHO it's the only main issue with Third Age Total War - all generals end up with maxed out traits, in TATW they are bad traits tho - your generals will become useless, completely mad alcoholics.

Actually, this is just an issue of balancing the points in the triggers (probabilities and levels). It's difficult to believe it's a problem in the TATW as, imo, the authors of the TATW were probably the most advanced and most forward-looking among all the M2TW modders. I can't believe Withwnar @ co. would allow this. Maybe you refer to the older versions of TATW?
For my modding, I've got Excel tables to assess the probabilities (esp. for the educational traits).

[Æsir]

It is so however. As a veteran player I can avoid most of bad trait triggers but there are some impossible to avoid, for example after the childbirth a general can get 1st level "alcoholic" trait and there is something like 99% probability, he will become complete drunkard after 10 or 15 turns.

As TATW is my favorite TW game, I just use 'give_trait this TraitName -1' to be able to play normally.

[Jurand of Cracow]

You may read here an analyse of the SS drinking problem. It's fixed in the current SSHIP version.

[Palaiogos]

I was able to 'ghetto fix' the TPY into 4 TPY and 12 TPY. It needs a new campaign though: campaign_script_12tpy.txtcampaign_script_4tpy.txt. Basically, replace your old campaign script in data -> world -> maps -> campaign -> imperial_campaign and change descr_strat to either .25 or 1/12