Gromovnik,
Gibbons " Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire " is my source. Add that to what Pilate had written and nailed above Jesus' head on the cross to Josephus' acknowledged record of Jesus, simple as it is for us to see the effect Jesus had on not only Israel but the whole Roman world and beyond.
It's not about worshipping trees, it's about having a decorated xmas tree. This is forbidden by your bible. Not diminishing any joy just pointing out that your bible forbids xmas trees. You want to feel sad about that then that is your problem, not mine.
Yet your god does not know how basic natural science works:
Genesis
Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes (1:14-19). 1:11
Isaiah 45:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
Do you enjoy all of your god's creation basics? Hahahahahaa
"I have given you every herb ... and every tree ... for meat."
Since many plants have evolved poisons to protect against animals that would like to eat them, God's advice is more than a little reckless. Would you tell your children to go out in the garden and eat whatever plants they encounter? Of course not. 1:29
Gibbon is hardly a witness of those events, the Pilate incident is from the Bible itself, and Josephus certainly didn't recognize Jesus as king of the Jews.
Optio, Legio I Latina
Sogdog,
It's about having a decorated Xmas tree is it? Where does the Bible say anything about Xmas trees? They are just a joyous reminder of what took place in Bethlehem all those years ago. On the first day He established night and day using His own light to light up all things. On the second day God brought up a firmament which He separated into what we know as clouds in the sky from that beneath which were the seas. On the third day He brought up out of the waters land which he called Earth and on the same day He established all the plantlife on it. On the fourth day He replaced His own light with the sun, moon and stars all with the purpose of making seasons, days and years just as we know them today. On the fifth day He created water life and life that could fly. On the sixth day He created land dwelling animals and on the same day He made man and woman thus completing His work of creation. So plantlife was made some 12/24 hours previously and this upsets your workings of natural science?
Anyway, God saw that it was good and rested on the seventh day, a day that figuratively is the most important day concerning mankind's escape from wrath which was to come. He indeed did create darkness and light, makes peace and evil for there was nothing made that was not made by Him. So yes I am glad that He has such power because if He hadn't power over evil how else could I be saved?
When Adam fell from grace a curse was put on him and everything else on the planet so that what was in the garden good to eat became outside of it something quite different in that not all was now good to eat. The nature of all things changed and it is that change that man has had to live with ever since. That is why God, Jesus Christ, came into the world as a man so as to take away sin from off the shoulders of all those that seek Him.
1) How can there be night and day when the Sun was created on fourth day? This is how ridiculous the bible is.
2) If your imaginary friend saw "that is was all good" why did he murder everyone in a flood?
2) If your imaginary friend is all powerful why did it need to rest?
3) If he has "power over evil" then why do evil things happen? Is your imaginary friend evil?
4) How come adam fell from grace when your imaginary friend said all was good?
5) If your jesus died for your sins why is there still sin?
6) If your jesus woke after 3 days he didn't really die did he? He was inconvenienced for your sins more like it.
7) No where in your bible does it say jesus was born on 25th December. No where!!! Prove me wrong, I dare you!
Your entire first paragraph is completely wrong because scientific fact states that Earth evolved out of galactic debris. The premise that your entire christian fable is based on is wrong. Hahahahahahaha
Partiality when you net out the later insertions to make is passing reference seem more grandiose.and Josephus certainly didn't recognize Jesus as king of the Jews
Gibbon is relaying a pretty obscure reference of Eusebius to a lost work by Hegesippus. The latter is hardly an unbiased source and not one likely to know what the Roman officials actually thought. In any Gibbon is a literary work at this point not a definitive history. It is perhaps possible local officials cared to interview relatives of an executed trouble maker, not likely they cared one way or the other about king of the jews.
----
Still can't accept collective punishment and blood attainder. Just seems a bit petty for an all powerful god.When Adam fell from grace a curse was put on him and everything else on the planet
IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites
'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'
But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.
Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
-Neil deGrasse Tyson
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.
The term Day and Night is used symbolically in Genesis, and iannnor referring to a twenty four hour day.
Well, God did not kill everyone, Noah and family survived. It was all good before Adam ate the fruit he was told not to, after which humans continually mucked things up, which is why the flood.2) If your imaginary friend saw "that is was all good" why did he murder everyone in a flood?
[Wuote]{]
2) If your imaginary friend is all powerful why did it need to rest? [/Quote] The word "rest" here does not mean God was physically tired an needed a nap. It meant that. God was finished creating with crwatint the world, and he wasn't going to create any more as he had been doing. Rest is used similarly to when the defense attorney says "the defense rest", it means the defense is done presenting it's case, not that the defense attorney is tired and is going to take a nap
. Free Will. For "free will" to mean anything, s person must be free to chosecand be able to do bad evil things as well as good things.3) If he has "power over evil" then why do evil things happen? Is your imaginary friend evil?
. Again free will. Man chose to disobey God, and when you violated rules, there will be consequences.4) How come adam fell from grace when your imaginary friend said all was good?
. Dying forvsin does not mean sin ceases to exist. Violating rules, i.e, has negative consequences. Jesus accepted the negative consequences on our behalf, like paying our speeding ticket for us. Doesn't mean we will never speed again5) If your jesus died for your sins why is there still sin?
. Jesueacame alive after 3 days, Jesus wasn't taking a nap for 3 days as you think. The Romans were expert at killing, they would know when a man was dead or not, and they even stabbed him with a spear to make sure Jesus was dead before they took him off the cross.6) If your jesus woke after 3 days he didn't really die did he? He was inconvenienced for your sins more like it.
. Jesus was born, so some date was his birthday, and December 25 is as good s day as any to celebrate it. It is up to you to prove December 25 was not the day Jesus was born on if you don't like the date, not someone to prove it is the day. The Orthodox Christians celebrate Jan 5, not December 25, by the way.7) No where in your bible does it say jesus was born on 25th December. No where!!! Prove me wrong, I dare you!
. The universe was created out of nothing in the big bang, and light was the first thing to exist. Ha ha has yourselfYour entire first paragraph is completely wrong because scientific fact states that Earth evolved out of galactic debris. The premise that your entire christian fable is based on is wrong. Hahahahahahaha
How are people subjected to violence exercising their free will?
Optio, Legio I Latina
Sogdog,
Where God dwells there is only light so for the sake of His story to come He created darkness both for biological reasons as well as Spiritual ones. All was good until Adam and Eve gave in to temptation from the devil's lies and so from that point on man did nothing but evil hence the flood event. He rested because creation was finished. Evil goes back before our creation having to do with the fallen angels who rebelled against God. God is not evil. God laid down the rules to Adam and he broke them leaving God no alternative but to institute death into our culture just as He said. Every sinner is responsible for his or her own sin and since more turn away from Jesus than turn to Him that is why there is still sin. Jesus was raised from the dead, why? Because He was dead that verified by the centurian who pierced His side to make sure. Jesus wasn't born on the 25th December we know that.
Your last sentence regarding the science is pure speculation as God created in six days a working planet and its surrounds all matured to be in good working order.
True but most non bible based regions don't have to talk around why an all knowing all powerful god comes across as petty spiteful. Take the classical Greeks. Their gods did not do the creation and were sort the current squatters on the hill. Bad things happen to good people well that is just the breaks but who knows the gods might not have cared, or been paying attention or some other god intervened. Afterlife well were not so sure on that one so best not let somebody talk you into tyranny now with some promises on that afterlife being awsome. Guess you kinda loose that certainty that fundamentalism can give you however.
IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites
'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'
But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.
Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
Blah blah. Here's what you said: "They are just a joyous reminder of what took place in Bethlehem all those years ago." Are you saying that you were lying about jesus birth?
"All was good until Adam and Eve gave in to temptation from the devil's lies and so from that point on man did nothing but evil hence the flood event" so your diety is NOT omnipotent nor omniscient then. Not much of a god.
"He indeed did create darkness and light, makes peace and evil for there was nothing made that was not made by Him. So yes I am glad that He has such power because if He hadn't power over evil how else could I be saved?"
and now: "God is not evil". I don't think evil means what you think it does. You god creates evil, has power over evil (your words) thus he is evil.
"fallen angels who rebelled against God" another example that your god is neither omnipotent, omniscient nor perfect.
"God laid down the rules to Adam and he broke them leaving God no alternative but to institute death into our culture just as He said" excepthe hadn't taught them about good vs evil because that is what the apple was about. So he punished adam for something he had no idea about. This is called abuse. Anyway how on earth did the devil get into your god's own garden? Makes me think that the devil is far more powerful than your puny, absent minded god. The devil wanted to teach adam about good and evil, a noble pursuit indeed. To punish generation after generation for one generations honest mistake is the trade mark of an abusive, cruel and evil deity. It's like holding every single Brit guilty for the horrors of colonisation their ancestors wrought on my continent. Punishing them over and over again for nothing they did. This is madness......like your religion/god.
"Every sinner is responsible for his or her own sin and since more turn away from Jesus than turn to Him that is why there is still sin" so he didn't die for your sins. Another scam.
"Jesus was raised from the dead, why?" Because he is either A)Yeast B)A zombie or C) Not dead.
"Because He was dead that verified by the centurian who pierced His side to make sure" which bible verse is this?
Last edited by Sogdog; December 13, 2019 at 12:01 PM.
The word "rest" here does not mean God was physically tired an needed a nap. It meant that. God was finished creating with crwatint the world, and he wasn't going to create any more as he had been doing. Rest is used similarly to when the defense attorney says "the defense rest", it means the defense is done presenting it's case, not that the defense attorney is tired and is going to take a nap
Except there is an entire universe not mentioned by the bronze aged bible. Again, another glaring mistake in the bible. Except he created eve.
. Free Will. For "free will" to mean anything, s person must be free to chosecand be able to do bad evil things as well as good things. e
Free will means to chose to behave without the threat of divine intervention and/or a god having a plan.
. Again free will. Man chose to disobey God, and when you violated rules, there will be consequences.
This is called extortion and/or conditional acceptance. Hallmarks of an abuser.
. Dying forvsin does not mean sin ceases to exist. Violating rules, i.e, has negative consequences. Jesus accepted the negative consequences on our behalf, like paying our speeding ticket for us. Doesn't mean we will never speed again
So there was no point for jesus to "die" on the cross. If he accepted this sin then there shouldn't be anymore sin. Another scam job.
. Jesueacame alive after 3 days, Jesus wasn't taking a nap for 3 days as you think. The Romans were expert at killing, they would know when a man was dead or not, and they even stabbed him with a spear to make sure Jesus was dead before they took him off the cross.
Except jesus is supposed to be an all powerful god (god as his son), so dying was no big deal. Kind of like you not having a car for 3 days: inconvenienced.
. Jesus was born, so some date was his birthday, and December 25 is as good s day as any to celebrate it. It is up to you to prove December 25 was not the day Jesus was born on if you don't like the date, not someone to prove it is the day. The Orthodox Christians celebrate Jan 5, not December 25, by the way.
Dies Natalis Solis Invicti means 'birthday of the unconquered sun' and was held on December 25th (when the Romans thought the Winter Solstice took place) and was the 'birthday' of the Pagan Sun god Mithra. In the pagan religion of Mithraism, the holy day was Sunday and is where get that word from. Again ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR CHRISTIANITY. Your religion plagerised this date. And I am happy to break it you that you make the claim that your god was born on 25th December therefor it is up to you to prove it. So I wait......and wait........and wait......and wait. But hang on it wasn't a christian holiday in the first place so I can logically deduce that jesus wasn't born on the 25th December. You're welcome.
. The universe was created out of nothing in the big bang, and light was the first thing to exist. Ha ha has yourself[/QUOTE]
Your god was supposedly created from nothing. HAHAHAHAHAHA back at you boet.
No, it doesnt. The fact that we have human laws doesn't negate the existence of free will as your argument claims. You free to act, even use illegal drugs, it is just that you can face rhe negative consequences of your free will choices, like going to jail.Free will means to chose to behave without the threat of divine intervention and/or a god having a plan.
Our laws.assume free will. Insane and very young persons are not held accountable for their actions, since they lack the understanding of the consequences of their acts, while.legal responsible persons are held.acfou table.for what they do, since they do have an understanding of right and wrong.
No society can operate without rules and limits, and there are going to be negative consequences. Read Lord of the Flies for a glimpse into a society without rules.This is called extortion and/or conditional acceptance. Hallmarks of an abuser.
Jesus was also fully human, and dying hurts a lot. Sure it is only temporary, but that doesn't mean it does doesn't hurt.
Except jesus is supposed to be an all powerful god (god as his son), so dying was no big deal. Kind of like you not having a car for 3 days: inconvenienced.
Common false belief. The oldest reference to Sol Invictus being celebrated on December 26 is no older than the oldest reference to Jesus birthday being celebrated on December 25. It is just as valid as to claim Sol Invictus got the date from the ChristiansDies Natalis Solis Invicti means 'birthday of the unconquered sun' and was held on December 25th (when the Romans thought the Winter Solstice took place) and was the 'birthday' of the Pagan Sun god Mithra. In the pagan religion of Mithraism, the holy day was Sunday and is where get that word from. Again ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR CHRISTIANITY. Your religion plagerised this date. And I am happy to break it you that you make the claim that your god was born on 25th December therefor it is up to you to prove it. So I wait......and wait........and wait......and wait. But hang on it wasn't a christian holiday in the first place so I can logically deduce that jesus wasn't born on the 25th December. You're welcome.
Also, half the Christian world celebrated Christmas on January 5. There was a traditional belief that a prophets died on the same day they were conceived. Jesus was believed to have died on March 25, and if he was conceived on that date, 9 months later would be December 25. The Eastern. Orthodox half of the empire calculated Jesus died on April 5. So 9 months later was January 5.. we e actually have some ancient Christian writings stating Jesus died on the day he was conceived. The entire Sol Invictus argument falls apart sine half the Christian world did not celebrate Christmas on December 25.
No, God always existed, he wasn't created.Your god was supposedly created from nothing. HAHAHAHAHAHA back at you boet.
Typical of you in replying in a way that ai cannot not address your replies, since youbyounknow I would be able to successfully refute them as I did all your previous arguments.
If you were confident of your answers, you wouldn't have replied in the way you did. Since you clearlynwant to make claims.b7t want to deny people the right to respond, there is no further point in debating with someone so lacking in integrity.
There's a lot of stupid in this comment. Let's address it point by point.
Because the world was not created in 7 literal days. Duh.
You do realize the the flood happened a very long time after the creation of the world, right?
To observe His creation. This question is particularly stupid. If you are building something do you continue building until the heath death of the universe or do you at some point stop and declare it finished?
Because humans were given complete free will. That also includes the will to do evil.
Because Adam chose to corrupt himself with knowledge of evil, so he could no longer stay without being destroyed.
Se previous answers.
Look up the word resurrection in a dictionary.
You are correct. We do not know when Jesus was born, probably in April. 25 of December was chosen by the early Christians because it coincided with Saturnalia and it allowed them to celebrate without fear of being discovered and killed.
And that contradicts genesis how, exactly? There's no such thing as galactic debris btw, you are thinking of nebulae.
Last edited by Sir Adrian; December 14, 2019 at 05:56 AM.
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