What does Christmas mean to you?

[Sogdog]

Sogdog,

Try John 19 32-34. Does it help that John was there and saw it with his own eyes?

http://www.gospel-mysteries.net/witn...ucifixion.html

Not conclusive so I am going to give your reason a Big NO.

[Sogdog]

There's a lot of stupid in this comment. Let's address it point by point.



Because the world was not created in 7 literal days. Duh.



You do realize the the flood happened a very long time after the creation of the world, right?



To observe His creation. This question is particularly stupid. If you are building something do you continue building until the heath death of the universe or do you at some point stop and declare it finished?



Because humans were given complete free will. That also includes the will to do evil.



Because Adam chose to corrupt himself with knowledge of evil, so he could no longer stay without being destroyed.



Se previous answers.



Look up the word resurrection in a dictionary.



You are correct. We do not know when Jesus was born, probably in April. 25 of December was chosen by the early Christians because it coincided with Saturnalia and it allowed them to celebrate without fear of being discovered and killed.



And that contradicts genesis how, exactly? There's no such thing as galactic debris btw, you are thinking of nebulae.

The fact that you insult the questions as "Stupid" already tells me you have no argument. And reading your responses I am right. Why don't you ditch the attitude and try again?

[sumskilz]

Regarding Genesis 2:2, other than tradition, there is no particular reason to translate the word yišbōṯ as "rested". In its infinitive form it means "to stop". Its only grammatically identical occurrence in the Bible is Joshua 5:12, where it is almost always translated as "ceased". You all know the word in its noun form - šābaṯ, which is Anglicized as Sabbath. So called not because it is the day of rest, but because it is the day on which work ceases.

[Sir Adrian]

The fact that you insult the questions as "Stupid" already tells me you have no argument. And reading your responses I am right. Why don't you ditch the attitude and try again?

Avoiding the issue is not a counter-argument, so either address my challenges or concede that you have no idea what you are talking about / are simply trolling.

PS: people who use the words "I know I am right" usually aren't.

[Bethrezen]

Christmas is that beautiful time of the year when I have lots of free days so I can plan a vacation.
It reminds me of the people's naivety and lies. Of how much some people fool themselves just to give their lives purpose.
Of how organizations/institutions can keep millions of people under control by inventing fairy tales.
So it's both a happy and a side time. But more of a happy time, since I don't really care about those millions of people.

[Sogdog]

Avoiding the issue is not a counter-argument, so either address my challenges or concede that you have no idea what you are talking about / are simply trolling.

PS: people who use the words "I know I am right" usually aren't.

Except that you chose to insult my questions first. By doing this you conceded you have no point to make and no idea what we are talking about. Your arrogance is breathtaking. Kind of like a troll.

PS: I am not right. Science is right. Christianity is wrong. Islam is wrong. Judaism is wrong. All religions are myth. Nothing more.

[basics]

Boys, boys, boys,

Tonight our church will be packed with people singing Christmas carols to celebrate and perhaps for some remember that Jesus Christ came into the world as a little human baby. Our Creator came down among us, to live and breathe as one of us and eventually to do for us that which we could never do ourselves. I am looking forward to it very much because he not only was/is my Creator, but my Saviour and Comforter as well.

[MaximiIian]

All religions are myth. Nothing more.

The map is not the territory. Religion is not the myths, that's a literalist misinterpretation (which Christianity is prone to, so we are unfortunately familiar with it).

Myths are not "stories that are untrue", they are sacred stories that serve as the foundation for a culture. Religion is the structure through which that culture interfaces with things it finds "sacred", i.e. rituals, places, concepts, traditions.
Sometimes that involves deities, sometimes it doesn't (Buddhism or Jainism, for instance). That does not necessarily preclude those societies from committing to scientific advancement. The Hellenistic world was a highly religious culture, with religion integrated thoroughly into civic life; didn't stop the ancient Greeks from pioneering mathematics, physics, astronomy, architecture, metallurgy, and other sciences.
To say nothing of the impact the Renaissance Occult tradition had on the development of the scientific method in Early Modern Europe.

[sumskilz]

Except that you chose to insult my questions first.

I am not right. Science is right.

Most of what you're arguing about can't actually be subjected to scientific inquiry. When it comes to the minor issues you pick at, you're usually wrong from an objective scientific/historical perspective. For example, claiming that the Bible never mentions the date when Jesus died when it certainly does or referring to the Bible as a Bronze Age book, when its earliest written layers date to the Iron Age. I think I'd have to really dig carefully through your posts in this thread to find even one correct scientific claim.

[Sogdog]

Boys, boys, boys,

Tonight our church will be packed with people singing Christmas carols to celebrate and perhaps for some remember that Jesus Christ came into the world as a little human baby. Our Creator came down among us, to live and breathe as one of us and eventually to do for us that which we could never do ourselves. I am looking forward to it very much because he not only was/is my Creator, but my Saviour and Comforter as well.

And yet you have no valid reason to celebrate xmas.

[Sogdog]

The map is not the territory. Religion is not the myths, that's a literalist misinterpretation (which Christianity is prone to, so we are unfortunately familiar with it).

Myths are not "stories that are untrue", they are sacred stories that serve as the foundation for a culture. Religion is the structure through which that culture interfaces with things it finds "sacred", i.e. rituals, places, concepts, traditions.
Sometimes that involves deities, sometimes it doesn't (Buddhism or Jainism, for instance). That does not necessarily preclude those societies from committing to scientific advancement. The Hellenistic world was a highly religious culture, with religion integrated thoroughly into civic life; didn't stop the ancient Greeks from pioneering mathematics, physics, astronomy, architecture, metallurgy, and other sciences.
To say nothing of the impact the Renaissance Occult tradition had on the development of the scientific method in Early Modern Europe.

They are still fictitious stories. Been part of a culture does not make them real.

[Sogdog]

Most of what you're arguing about can't actually be subjected to scientific inquiry. When it comes to the minor issues you pick at, you're usually wrong from an objective scientific/historical perspective. For example, claiming that the Bible never mentions the date when Jesus died when it certainly does or referring to the Bible as a Bronze Age book, when its earliest written layers date to the Iron Age. I think I'd have to really dig carefully through your posts in this thread to find even one correct scientific claim.

Except the bible does NOT mention the date that jesus was born. That was my original point. Who cares when he "died" when you can't prove when he was born. The bible was copied from paganism, The Old Testament is the original Hebrew Bible, the sacred scriptures of the Jewish faith, written at different times between about 1200 and 165 BC. These dates are the bronze age going into the iron age. Are you tired of being wrong yet?

[sumskilz]

Except the bible does NOT mention the date that jesus was born. That was my original point. Who cares when he "died" when you can't prove when he was born.

Why do you care?

The bible was copied from paganism

That's a somewhat infantile conception. The various texts are influenced by, and interact with, the cultural context in which they were written. In some cases, Mesopotamian stories were adapted or co-opted, usually as polemics. Paganism would have to be something in specific for it to be copied.

The Old Testament is the original Hebrew Bible, the sacred scriptures of the Jewish faith, written at different times between about 1200 and 165 BC. These dates are the bronze age going into the iron age. Are you tired of being wrong yet?

There are no texts that date prior to the Ninth Century BCE, and even if you were correct, 1200 would still be the Iron Age.

[conon394]

Why do you care?

That's a somewhat infantile conception. The various texts are influenced by, and interact with, the cultural context in which they were written. In some cases, Mesopotamian stories were adapted or co-opted, usually as polemics. Paganism would have to be something in specific for it to be copied.

There are no texts that date prior to the Ninth Century BCE, and even if you were correct, 1200 would still be the Iron Age.

I thought the so called silver scrolls were the earliest bits of potential bible at 7-6th century BCE

[Abdülmecid I]

I believe sumskilz is referring to our modern estimation about when the oldest text of the Bible was created in its current form, not to the oldest surviving copy (silver scrolls) that we happened to discover. What perplexed me more is that, according to the Wikipedia table, the modern period starts in 1917, despite the Ottoman Empire still controlling most of the Levant until late 1918. Is the dating based solely on the fall of Jerusalem?

[basics]

And yet you have no valid reason to celebrate xmas.

Sogdog,

May I say that the place was rockin to the sound of a packed church singing its heart out so many of the wonderful carols that help make Christmas what it is. Added to that were the words of our pastor, a PhD in Systematic Theology, in explaining the seriousness of why we were there in the first place making it the most joyous occasion especially for all the visitors who came for the first time to our church.

[Sogdog]

Sogdog,

May I say that the place was rockin to the sound of a packed church singing its heart out so many of the wonderful carols that help make Christmas what it is. Added to that were the words of our pastor, a PhD in Systematic Theology, in explaining the seriousness of why we were there in the first place making it the most joyous occasion especially for all the visitors who came for the first time to our church.

Doing this to a road would have the same effect: pointless.

[sumskilz]

I believe sumskilz is referring to our modern estimation about when the oldest text of the Bible was created in its current form, not to the oldest surviving copy (silver scrolls) that we happened to discover.

Yeah that's right, and I was being charitable by saying 9th rather than 8th century. The Book of Kings clearly draws on two texts written in the 9th century, large sections of which may have been incorporated verbatim, so one can arguably refer to those sections as its earliest complete layers.

What perplexed me more is that, according to the Wikipedia table, the modern period starts in 1917, despite the Ottoman Empire still controlling most of the Levant until late 1918. Is the dating based solely on the fall of Jerusalem?

I don't ever work in that period, but I'd guess it's partially because most Levantine archaeology published in English occurs in modern Israel. Obviously 1918 for the end of the Ottoman Period would be a more accurate generalization historically, and correct for northern modern Israel as well, but archaeological periods are defined by material culture, so it's actually normal for the absolute dates of transitions between them to vary from site to site. The rationale for an earlier date probably comes from the tendency to define the beginning of periods by when we start to see something new. In reality, all transitions between periods are a date range.

[MaximiIian]

They are still fictitious stories.

Mythology and fiction are entirely different things. The key is in the intention. Fiction is intended to be un-true or un-real from the outset. Myth is not.
And yes, being the foundation of a culture does make them real...to that culture. You're confusing "real" and "truth" with "factual" and "literal". Literal truth is not necessarily the same as mythic truth.

[basics]

Doing this to a road would have the same effect: pointless.

Sogdog,

The only problem with your statement is that a road won't have any effect as to your eternal life. There are but two roads to that and from what you say it's the big dual carriageway you'll be on.