Tweeting politics and science.

[mishkin]

Anti-feminist? Allowing inherently physically superior trans girls to demoralize and discourage cis girls in athletics is ..."feminism"? Really?

you want to prohibit a woman from competing against other women.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

Cheerleading is a sportive activity in US schools too. Men are better now even as Cheerleader? And why are trans men forced to take the female team, if there is a female team in the same sport, if born men are always stronger?

The true goal of this law is the good old US tradition of discrimination by segregation.

[Mithradates]

you want to prohibit a woman from competing against other women.

lol
Do you agree with weight divisions? How about age group divisions? Should those even exist? After all, there are no differences between women right?

[mishkin]

lol
Do you agree with weight divisions? How about age group divisions? Should those even exist? After all, there are no differences between women right?

I have not said anything about abolishing the various categories. Why do you want to prohibit women from competing with other women in the corresponding categories?

[Mithradates]

Well, you are pretending that there is no real physical difference between trans girls and cis girls and they should compete in their corresponding categories, but back then those categories were created with only cis girls in mind.
Letting trans girls compete in those categories would give them unfair advantage ...or do you disagree with that? Do you think that would be a fair competition?

[Infidel144]

Cheerleading? When I was in school, 4+ decades ago, cheerleading was coed. Things like wrestling, boxing, football etc were not.

[mishkin]

a trans woman is a woman, she can not be discriminated, you can not let her compete with other women. If you are so worried about physical power, lets create a new cathegory for super strength people like, dont know, serena williams or roberto carlos.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

There may be coed teams, but its still mostly a 'girls' sport.

Or where is here the male cheerleader?

https://msueagles.com/news/2017/5/2/cheerleading-five-morehead-state-cheerleaders-lead-us-national-team-to-all-girl-world-title.aspx


And i still have no answer, why transgender men shall be forced to join the female team.

Must the strong men be protected?

We are talking about school sport here, not professional sport.

[Sar1n]

a trans woman is a woman, she can not be discriminated, you can not let her compete with other women. If you are so worried about physical power, lets create a new cathegory for super strength people like, dont know, serena williams or roberto carlos.

This is not a matter of psychological identity but cold, hard biology. Biological sexes have different skeletal and muscular development, and even if you go all the way with reassignment surgery and hormones, it'll take decades-if ever-until the differences become negligible. In modern society, the biological differences often aren't important and psychological identity can take precedence, but there are still a few matters in which it plays role, and it would be foolish to ignore it. Or you end up with "brave" MMA fighter breaking skulls of her opponents because she enjoys the advantage of decades of male development.

[mishkin]

This is not a matter of psychological identity but cold, hard biology. Biological sexes have different skeletal and muscular development, and even if you go all the way with reassignment surgery and hormones, it'll take decades-if ever-until the differences become negligible. In modern society, the biological differences often aren't important and psychological identity can take precedence, but there are still a few matters in which it plays role, and it would be foolish to ignore it. Or you end up with "brave" MMA fighter breaking skulls of her opponents because she enjoys the advantage of decades of male development.

I didnt even thought we were talking about gender.

Do you want to prohibit women from participating in a sport with other women for fear of an avalanche of people submitting for years to hormonal changes and very serious surgery in order to stand out in a sport? Really? May I ask you what is your opinion regarding the change of sex? Maybe you just object to it.

Again, trans women are women, you can not prohibit them to play sports. If some of them present a physical superiority, bad luck. We have all faced a specially developed boy in the schoolyard, many tennis players have cursed the day Serena Williams was born.

[Mithradates]

And i still have no answer, why transgender men shall be forced to join the female team.

I might be misunderstanding the proposed law but arent they saying the opposite?

"Students of the female sex who previously participated in athletic teams or sports designated for "females", "women", or "girls" and who have begun gender or sex transitioning shall not participate in athletic teams or sports designated for "females", "women", or"girls""

a trans woman is a woman, she can not be discriminated, you can not let her compete with other women.

okay lol

If you are so worried about physical power, lets create a new cathegory for super strength people like, dont know, serena williams or roberto carlos.

Im "so worried" about it lol... you do understand how important physical strenght is in athletics, right?
Yeah, Im "so worried" about level playing field and fairness in sports.

Trans athletes are relatively new, so they should have new categories, yes.

Also, Serena Williams could not compete in the "super strength people" category, she could only compete in the "super strength women" category.

When the World No. 203 swept the Williams sisters

No. 203 sweeps WilliamsAt the height of the Williams boom in 1998, an unofficial game took place in Australia after Serena and Venus claimed that no male player outside the top 200 could beat them.Up stepped a German known as Karsten Braasch who was ranked 203rd in the world and after first beating Serena 6-1, he then disposed of Venus 6-2."I didn't know it would be that difficult. I played shots that would have been winners on the women's circuit and he got to them very easily," said Serena."They wouldn't have had a chance against anyone inside the top 500 because today I played like someone ranked 600th to keep it fun," was Braasch's assessment.

[Iskar]

If the traditional grouping by ascribed gender fails (mostly because traditional views dont account for the gender-sex differenciation) then maybe the logical thing to do is grouping sports not by gender or sex but simply by averaged lifetime testosterone levels, since these seem to be most closely correlated to average(!) performance.

[Cope]

If the traditional grouping by ascribed gender fails (mostly because traditional views dont account for the gender-sex differenciation) then maybe the logical thing to do is grouping sports not by gender or sex but simply by averaged lifetime testosterone levels, since these seem to be most closely correlated to average(!) performance.

What's the easiest way of determining, at a glance, "averaged lifetime testosterone levels" Iskar?

[Iskar]

I'm no endokrinologist, but it should generally be a measurable fact. That is somewhat beside the point, though, as the thought was purely theoretical as of yet.
The most logical option may well turn out to be the least practical.

[mishkin]

good luck demanding endocrinological tests of all professional athletes (professionals locally or globally) and asking those who want to participate in an amateur competition to show their genitalia.

all this is nothing more than the non-acceptance that a transexual woman is a woman.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

Male are physical superior? Maybe in theory, but in reality a liftime trained professional female boxer beats a parttime active man in this sport.

Caution boxing (physical violence)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2YPpkmmDcY
Regina wins in the end.

The only field where those physical superiority would matter is professional sports and no midclass male professional would transform his gender to progress from midclass to topclass, as you earn much less in female professional sports.

This is a fake argument to discriminate transgender people.

And whats next?

Segregating black athlets from white athlets because black people are in athletics in average physical superior to white people?

[Mithradates]

Male are physical superior? Maybe in theory, but in reality a liftime trained professional female boxer beats a parttime active man in this sport.

Caution boxing (physical violence)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2YPpkmmDcY
Regina wins in the end.

Yes?
Can lifetime trained professional female boxers compete against lifetime trained professional male boxers? No? Hmm, maybe thats why they have different categories?

This is a fake argument to discriminate transgender people.

all this is nothing more than the non-acceptance that a transexual woman is a woman.

[mishkin]

Right, no need to waste more words.

[sumskilz]

a trans woman is a woman

At best, this is something people say out of concern for trans people's feelings, but very few actually believe it.

Take for example the miniscule percentage of heterosexuals who would consider dating a trans person:



Even in those cases, it isn't certain those individuals really consider the trans person to be the opposite sex, maybe just close enough for attraction in some cases. Dictionaries still define a woman as "an adult female person" (see here and here). I'm sure activists who feel a desperate need to control everyone's speech will eventually get that changed, but there's obviously a limit to how much gaslighting actually works (see above).

That said, I'm pretty sure most people consider it wrong to discriminate against those with mental health issues except when there is a legitimate reason to do so. For example, not hiring someone with narcolepsy to be a bus driver. I'd say there are legitimate concerns about trans women competing against biological women, especially in contact sports. Consequently, accusing people of not believing trans women are real women isn't a substitute for an argument.

[Mithradates]

Right, no need to waste more words.

Oh sorry my bad, it was not supposed to be just a smiley, I wanted to write how awkward it woud have been if during the hearing Mr. Boulware would have done what you just did.
Not that he had an actual argument, but at least he did his best trying to appeal to their emotions.