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Thread: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

  1. #161
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    It's a strange world when men and women religiously follow their idols on TV or any other media, yet denounce them that put God before anything else. Oh yes they worship the idols who wouldn't be idols but for them and they don't realise it. I mean who would be famous but for them that idolised them? The only Person predicted from the beginning of the world and Who had power over the world probably had the least following in His day yet performed so many supernatural acts as to end up on a cross for His troubles. The religious then and the religious now still deny Him, why? Because His demenour was such that no one would desire Him like they did and still do today and yet no-one has had the effect that He has on this fallen world. Christians don't follow Him for His looks or how many times He appears on the media, rather the promises He made and still does about turning death into life everlasting. It's no small claim He makes, the testimonies of all them experiencing the promise is the evidence yet that still is not good enough for the world. The world's answer is, " We make our own gods and laws so stuff you."

  2. #162
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.


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  3. #163
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Funny thing is Dawkins now opposes almost everything he said in that video.
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  4. #164
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    You're gonna need to provide a source on that lmao

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  5. #165
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Akar,

    You know when Dawkins was asked to give the full title of Darwin's theory, his words were " my God " when he couldn't. Strange that an avowed atheist should appeal to God when caught flatfooted like that. The man's a plonker.

  6. #166
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Are you seriously implying that every time someone says "my god" or "oh my god" or "jesus christ" or something like that they're literally appealing to god and not just using an expression? You are aware that Dawkins has 10 Honorary Degrees, in addition to the regular degrees he has and has taught at Oxford in the past? Are you seriously going to suggest that he's a "plonker" based off one allegation of forgetting a phrase? Do you really have nothing better to jump on than a single moment of forgetfulness? If that's all you can rely on to disprove someone's argument you're on the same level of debate as someone who resorts to calling our grammar mistakes instead of addressing the opponents argument. It's also worth noting that the catholic church (with 1.3b billion followers) also supports the theory of evolution, meaning that even amongst your fellows you are in the minority when it comes to the facts of science.

    Also, again, provide a source on that.

    Dawkins has never renounced his beliefs and has always been a staunch atheist and evolutionary biologist.

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  7. #167
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Akar,

    No my ole son, my thoughts spring from Alistair McGrath's response in writing to the God Delusion. McGrath destroys it piece by piece and the funny thing is that they are fellows in the same University or at least were. Dawkins might well be a brainy man but his beliefs are quite wrong concerning God and Creation. In fact he can be downright nasty for I remember the man who married me to my wife was at one of his meetings and when Sandy asked Dawkins a question the vitriol he received was nothing short of a bully telling off someone because they didn't agree with him. You know the typical left wing response when someone has a different opinion. Brains are one thing but manners are another.

    Quote,

    Sandy Shaw of Nairn is standing as the second list candidate for the Scottish Christian Party in the forthcoming Scottish Elections.
    Sandy Shaw was born and brought up in Perth, attending the North Church and gaining The Queen's Badge in the Boys' Brigade. He attended Perth Academy and went on to Edinburgh University, graduating M.A. and B.D. During these years, he was very involved in sport, captaining the College hockey and soccer teams, and has maintained a degree of fitness by continuing to run.

    He served 23 years in the Ministry of the Church of Scotland, firstly in Cowdenbeath, a mining community, and then at Ardclach and Auldearn in rural Nairnshire.

    Since 1992, he has been Pastor of Nairn Christian Fellowship, served 10 years on the Children's Panel in Highland Region, and is a Chaplain at Nairn Academy and Inverness Prison. He broadcasts regularly on WSHO Radio, New Orleans, and he has made three visits in the past two years to speak and teach at Pastor's Seminars in Uganda and Kenya. He has led 12 Tours and Pilgrimages to Israel.

    Sandy has been married for 38 years with two married sons and two granddaughters. Unquote.

  8. #168

    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    It's a strange world when men and women religiously follow their idols on TV or any other media, yet denounce them that put God before anything else. Oh yes they worship the idols who wouldn't be idols but for them and they don't realise it. I mean who would be famous but for them that idolised them? The only Person predicted from the beginning of the world and Who had power over the world probably had the least following in His day yet performed so many supernatural acts as to end up on a cross for His troubles. The religious then and the religious now still deny Him, why? Because His demenour was such that no one would desire Him like they did and still do today and yet no-one has had the effect that He has on this fallen world. Christians don't follow Him for His looks or how many times He appears on the media, rather the promises He made and still does about turning death into life everlasting. It's no small claim He makes, the testimonies of all them experiencing the promise is the evidence yet that still is not good enough for the world. The world's answer is, " We make our own gods and laws so stuff you."
    Man worships God or an idol, but he worships.



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  9. #169
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Ahh yes, the confused lamentations of someone unable to fathom how someone couldn't worship god.

    Comparing following a political ideology with worshiping a god or following a religion is pretty ridiculous bordering on the absurd.

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  10. #170

    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.





    Really makes me think

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  11. #171
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    If you think that he's saying evil doesn't exist you are entirely misunderstanding what he's saying. He's saying that, at the base level, there is no design, no good, no evil, no purpose other than what evolves via natural selection. There is no "inherent" concept of good and evil like Christianity and other religions suggest. There are good or evil because society and our morals (derived from the society and culture we grow up in) requires certain behaviors to be encouraged and certain behaviors to be discouraged to increase the chance of survival. Don't blame Dawkin's that you are only capable of cherry picking quotes out of context and without understanding their meaning.

    For example, here is the full quote that the second image pulls from,

    “The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. It must be so. If there ever is a time of plenty, this very fact will automatically lead to an increase in the population until the natural state of starvation and misery is restored. In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.”
    And don't even get me started on how incredibly accurate that first image is.

    I don't really understand the point of the video other than further underlining how little these people actually understand what they're arguing against. They have clearly missed a very important lesson from Sun Tzu

    “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

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  12. #172
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Akar,

    Dawkins has what purpose in life? To educate people to believe that there is no future because there is no God. In other words he wants to extract every ounce of hope that people who do believe have that there is a future and one has to ask why? What is it about this man that he wants the world filled with atheists and nothing else? For a socalled brainy man I have to ask what's the point? Will not believing better their lives in any way? Has he never noticed what atheism has brought to those that have followed it in other parts of the world? If it's down to the survival of the fittest and no more then what he said about God must apply to man and we've seen what man can do. In other words man who has no God has done and is doing what God is accused of and if there is no God why blame Him? Surely he must blame what appears to be natural for man to do? Indeed if he was honest he must stand up and take the blame for his part in the debauchery that he and his fellow travellers have and are taking.

  13. #173
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Dawkins has what purpose in life? To educate people to believe that there is no future because there is no God. In other words he wants to extract every ounce of hope that people who do believe have that there is a future and one has to ask why? What is it about this man that he wants the world filled with atheists and nothing else? For a socalled brainy man I have to ask what's the point?
    Bit presumptuous of you to assume someone's purpose in life, isn't it? Dawkin's goal (in my opinion, though I believe he does touch on it a bit here) is to educate people in the sciences, and that is one he has been immensely successful in accomplishing by any objective standard. He's taught at Oxford, published 14 books, authored numerous scientific articles, and more. He's nothing if not accomplished, so I have no idea what you attempt to get at when you try to create an image of him as a bitter atheist who only wants to turn christians. He has written only 2 books about Atheism, and 12 about Biology/Science, so it's disingenuous to say his focus is atheism, either. I'm sure you only know him from his atheistic works since it's impossible for one to be a biologist and a christian.

    Will not believing better their lives in any way?
    What's important is whether or not it's true, not whether or not it makes you feel better. Kids feel better thinking that Santa is real, but he's not. Truth is more important than whatever happiness you get from believing in something fake.

    Has he never noticed what atheism has brought to those that have followed it in other parts of the world?
    I'm not sure what you're getting at here, but I'm sure you're trying to suggest that atheism somehow has something to do with Nazism or Soviet Russia or Communist China or some nonsense like that. I would respond by showing you equally bloody regimes under the banner of religion, but I don't want to waste my time doing that right now. Let's suffice it to say that man's morality is unrelated to his personal religious belief. If you think man is only good because of religion, then you must be admitting that the only thing stopping you from being a mass murderer is the fear that god wont let you into heaven.

    If it's down to the survival of the fittest and no more then what he said about God must apply to man and we've seen what man can do. In other words man who has no God has done and is doing what God is accused of and if there is no God why blame Him?
    Maybe if you lump the entirety of humanity into one single being or consider each member of humanity responsible for all of the other member's crimes then we could be considered as wicked as Dawkin's describes god as being. But the fact is that not one of us is as petty, unjust, unforgiving, etc, as the god of the bible is. Would you compare the entirety of humanity with one person who is supposed to be superior, all knowing, and merciful? It seems illogical.

    Surely he must blame what appears to be natural for man to do?
    If you consider things like rape, murder, and genocide to be "natural" then again you admit the only thing holding you back from those same crimes is the fear of god's vengeance. Society and humanity as a whole does not consider those things to be moral or natural. Society punishes those who rape and murder and we do so without presuming our own omniscience and omnipotence. Justice must be blind, and the christian god is anything but.

    Indeed if he was honest he must stand up and take the blame for his part in the debauchery that he and his fellow travellers have and are taking.
    What "debauchery" is Dawkins getting up to, exactly? And what sort of hedonistic revelry is he encouraging his "travelers" to partake in? I'm sorry, but this is just silly. I mean, come on.

    edit:

    To educate people to believe that there is no future because there is no God. In other words he wants to extract every ounce of hope that people who do believe have that there is a future
    Again, this idea that because someone is not religious they have no purpose or meaning in life. It's the other way around, frankly. If you're religious, all you're doing is sitting around waiting to die so you can go to heaven and start really living. Knowing that things don't exist for a reason is liberating, and allows you to ascribe your own meaning on life and existence. It gives you the freedom to pursue your own life without worrying about pleasing some capricious supernatural entity.

    A god who sends someone to hell who has lived a good life, solely for the reason that they didn't believe in that god, is not someone who deserves to be worshiped anyway.

    Not to mention that the whole thing gets even more ridiculous when people believe in predestination. Which means that god made you specifically with the knowledge and plan in mind that you wouldn't worship him just so he could send you to hell. And since everything is predetermined and according to gods plan, you had no choice in the matter at all. Which gets even wackier when you consider that god had Judas betray Jesus and die (in an incredibly gruesome manner) and go to hell, just so god could save everyone else but Judas. Judas, who's sacrifice is arguably more significant and impactful than Jesus's sacrifice since Jesus gets to just come back from the dead a couple days later totally fine and then go off to heaven. All the while poor Judas has to spend eternity in Hell because god made him specifically with the purpose of betraying Jesus and later spending an eternity in hell and didn't give him the free will to do the right thing.
    Last edited by Akar; June 24, 2020 at 01:10 AM.

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  14. #174
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Akar,

    Well ole son, Jesus has had 66 books written about Himself, the Third Person of the Trinity inspiring each writer to put ink on parchment telling us how we got here and where we will go when this planet ends. The greatest of them being the KJV has outsold any other book in existence of any sort. That kind of puts Dawkins thoughts into perspective. He worships the god of an unproven theory and so preaches mostly about it as do you may I add. Concerning your words that no biologist can be a Christian, I did a wee google with Wiki and found a whole list of men and women who are Christian in the field of science and so once again you're assuming too much. As for the state of mankind I watched Voddie Baucham preach on The World, The Flesh and The Devil and boy was I captivated by this man's knowledge and understanding of the human condition. The thing is that I doubt you have the stomach to watch it at all for fear of finding out the truth.

  15. #175
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Well ole son, Jesus has had 66 books written about Himself, the Third Person of the Trinity inspiring each writer to put ink on parchment telling us how we got here and where we will go when this planet ends.
    Irrelevant. I brought up his literary contributions as a response to your attempts to disparage his character and intellect.

    The greatest of them being the KJV has outsold any other book in existence of any sort.
    Again, irrelevant. A books success has no bearing on it's truth whatsoever.

    That kind of puts Dawkins thoughts into perspective.
    No, it doesn't.

    He worships the god
    Excuse me? No, he does not. There is no such thing as "worshiping the god" in any sense other than being a religious follower. It's hilarious when christians try that "atheism is a religion too nonsense" as if it would even mean something if it were true, which it's not. Literally. Being a believer in the scientific method is a far cry from believing in the supernatural workings of a Nazarene.

    Concerning your words that no biologist can be a Christian, I did a wee google with Wiki and found a whole list of men and women who are Christian in the field of science and so once again you're assuming too much.
    Anyone who is a biologist and denies abiogenesis and evolution is no scientist. You don't get to pick and choose which parts of science you like.

    As for the state of mankind I watched Voddie Baucham preach on The World, The Flesh and The Devil and boy was I captivated by this man's knowledge and understanding of the human condition.
    So why not expound on his thoughts here instead of insisting we watch yet another video of someone preaching. Provide the salient details of his argument so we can see if it's even worth spending the time to watch.

    The thing is that I doubt you have the stomach to watch it at all for fear of finding out the truth.
    Ironic to hear this coming from the likes of you, Basics. The only thing stopping me from watching it is the fear of being bored to death.

    edit:

    Jesus has had 66 books written about Himself
    Oh, and if we're going to use the number of books written about someone as some sort of measurement,



    Nancy Drew has had 533 books written about her, a whopping 477 more books than Jesus did. I guess we'd better start worshiping Nancy Drew then I suppose.
    Last edited by Akar; June 24, 2020 at 02:17 AM.

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  16. #176
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Also, I would like you to please answer at least this question you ignored in my above post.

    What "debauchery" is Dawkins getting up to, exactly? And what sort of hedonistic revelry is he encouraging his "travelers" to partake in? I'm sorry, but this is just silly. I mean, come on.

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  17. #177
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Akar,

    His literary contributions amount to insisting that there is no God, that we came from a pond of soup and so anyone who believes there is a God is an ignorant fool. He is an arrogant and rude man who incites his listeners to behave in the same manner or worse as we are finding out on our streets today. Concerning Nancy Drew and the books written about her, i have no complaints there but if you went into a Christian book shop and saw the number of books published about Jesus Christ by people whose lives have been changed by Him my guess is that they would outnumber Nancy's. Why even John in his writings said that there was many more written stories about Jesus not included in the Bible yet if one counted all the different Bibles and added them to the KJV's number it kind of puts into perspective your rather silly arguments.

    I have a persitant Husky to walk right now but I will be back with more later. Reason is that he keeps nudging the keyboard so unless I get up off my backside and obey him I'll be here all day.

  18. #178
    Elendil 03's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Religion can have its place within a reasonable person's mind. That many religious people do not trust scientific understanding and that religion has been, is currently and will be instrumentalized to the pleasing of its more prominent propagators does not disvalidate its merits. And any philosophical, ethical and even historical argumentation against religion is pointless since theism means that all truth and all morality originate from god, which can therefore not be judged nor assessed in human terms.

    Nonetheless, sincere adherents of any of the Abrahamic religions (I do not know enough about other faiths to make affirmations concerning them) cannot neglect the divine origin of human reason and must therefore apply it, questioning their own beliefs and the way they practice them over and over again. Religion as a means of human control and a source of human-driven violence is a phenomenon that has accompanied our species throughout its entire history and ultimately needs to be overcome in order for salvation to occur, no matter how this term is defined.
    Last edited by Elendil 03; June 26, 2020 at 07:27 AM.

  19. #179
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    His literary contributions amount to insisting that there is no God
    Again, that's a gross simplification of his work and only accounts for 2-3 of his 14 published books. Most of his books and work has been based around biology and genes. If you interpret from those books that there is no god, that's more your fault than his.

    that we came from a pond of soup
    This is not the position of any modern biologist that I am aware of. Primordial Soup is a concept hypothesized in 1924 before we further developed our understanding of the science. Not to mention that "primordial soup" itself is more of a rhetorical term than a literal description of what it actually is. "primordial soup" refers to the conditions required for organic compounds to arise from inorganic compounds - conditions which were prevalent during the initial periods of earths formation.

    Concerning Nancy Drew and the books written about her, i have no complaints there but if you went into a Christian book shop and saw the number of books published about Jesus Christ by people whose lives have been changed by Him my guess is that they would outnumber Nancy's.
    Probably, but can we agree that it's pointless to judge something purely by the amount of literature published about it?

    I have a persitant Husky to walk right now but I will be back with more later. Reason is that he keeps nudging the keyboard so unless I get up off my backside and obey him I'll be here all day.
    Again, still waiting for you to respond to the questions in my previous posts.

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  20. #180
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    Again, that's a gross simplification of his work and only accounts for 2-3 of his 14 published books. Most of his books and work has been based around biology and genes. If you interpret from those books that there is no god, that's more your fault than his.

    This is not the position of any modern biologist that I am aware of. Primordial Soup is a concept hypothesized in 1924 before we further developed our understanding of the science. Not to mention that "primordial soup" itself is more of a rhetorical term than a literal description of what it actually is. "primordial soup" refers to the conditions required for organic compounds to arise from inorganic compounds - conditions which were prevalent during the initial periods of earths formation.

    Probably, but can we agree that it's pointless to judge something purely by the amount of literature published about it?

    Again, still waiting for you to respond to the questions in my previous posts.
    Akar,

    We all know what Dawkins thinks about God so it's not an oversimplification at all.

    And, for these conditions to make any sense one has to develope billions and billions of years into the imagination of young people as though it were fact when it is not.

    What we can agree on is that Nancy never claimed to be God as Jesus Christ did and it's that claim that has outperformed every other publication ever made. Why would that be if there was no God?

    Concerning debauchery I think any sane person will see the results on our streets driven primarily by so-called brainy teachers at our colleges and universities. Perhaps mayhem would have been a better word for it.

    Religious people may sit around waiting for something to happen but a Christian won't and doesn't if he or she really belongs to Jesus Christ. Proclaiming the good news is not an easy task as anyone on these threads can see. The encouraging thing is that we don't know where the Holy Spirit will fall or on whom so we keep on trying. Only God can make a person regenerate and if there is no God how is it possible for so many over the years to have their lives altered in such a way as to baffle relatives, friends and foes alike?

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