Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

[Sir Adrian]

The Bible disagrees with you again. Aside for openly stating that faith does not exist without works you also have Matthew 6:5 which covers precisely the main concern you address. Also, you're supposed to do works in the name of God.

[Prodromos]

Simply claiming to believe in Jesus is insufficient. Those who truly believe also do works.

[F]aith does not exist without works[...] Also, you're supposed to do works in the name of God.

Right, but the idea that real, saving faith is necessarily accompanied by obedience and sanctification isn't in dispute here. No one believes that real, saving faith can exist apart from works, but that's not the same as being saved by works.

I wish the reader to understand that as often as we mention Faith alone in this question, we are not thinking of a dead faith, which worketh not by love, but holding faith to be the only cause of justification. (Galatians 5:6; Romans 3:22.) It is therefore faith alone which justifies, and yet the faith which justifies is not alone: just as it is the heat alone of the sun which warms the earth, and yet in the sun it is not alone, because it is constantly conjoined with light.

Faith is a divine work in us which changes us and makes us to be born anew of God [John 1:12–13]. It kills the old ‘Adam’ and makes us altogether different people, in heart and spirit and mind and all powers; and it brings with it the Holy Spirit. O, it is a living, busy, active, mighty thing, this faith. It is impossible for it not to be doing good works incessantly. It does not ask whether good works are to be done, but before the question is asked, it has already done them, and is constantly doing them. Whoever does not do such works, however, is an unbeliever, who gropes and looks around for faith and good works, but knows neither what faith is nor what good works are. Yet such a person talks and talks, with many words, about faith and good works. Faith is a living, daring confidence in God’s grace, so sure and certain that the believer would stake life itself on it a thousand times. This knowledge of and confidence in God’s grace makes people glad and bold and happy in dealing with God and with all creatures. And this is the work which the Holy Spirit performs in faith. Because of it, without compulsion, a person is ready and glad to do good to everyone, to serve everyone, to suffer everything, out of love and praise to God, who has shown this grace. Thus, it is impossible to separate works from faith, quite as impossible as to separate heat and light from fire.

[basics]

Sir Adrian,

So, what you are insisting on is that man himself can save himself by believing in himself? No need for any intercession by God nor any need for Jesus to go on that cross never mind the work of the Holy Spirit which has to be played out to bring any person to believe on Jesus Christ? Billions today believe there is a God yet they are sinners among whom many do good works but are not saved, why? Because to be saved one has to be born again of the Spirit of God regardless of what he or she believes or whatever good works they have done. Only God can do that and is doing that to bring people to saving faith.

[Lord Thesaurian]

These words hit me hard when I first heard them, and time and again they pop into my head, though I’d only heard them once. I may be a fool who sincerely believed in the supernatural for so long, but no matter how I wrestle with it, the realization that Jesus is all but certainly dead and has been for a long time doesn’t change the calculus for me. I still love him with all my heart. Therefore, I don’t want to adulterate, fornicate, lie, cheat, murder, steal, envy, covet, hate, or be indolent, and I don’t want to live in a world where any of those things are anything but taboo, let alone some kind of sick, twisted virtue signal. And if I am wrong and he is there to judge me at the end, I will rejoice in the knowledge that he reigns as much as I despair in eternal separation from him.

So what good is the moral latitude to do any of those things? Nothing I can see in the world around me. I want to obey Jesus and I want the whole world to obey him too, even though I suck at it. If “do what thou wilt” is the order of the day, then that is what I want. “I don’t want to be a reed broken by the wind. I don’t want worldly soft robes. I don’t want worldly palaces filled with living corpses and demonic dances. I want to answer the call of [Jesus]…. These are not my empty moves, but from emptiness to the fullness of life. I am not giving up anything. I am adding true value to this meaningless life. Life without Jesus is a shame. That would be a dance with the dead, a valley of death.”

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[basics]

Lord Thesaurian,

The thing is that Jesus Christ is not dead, He is risen and much more alive than you and me. The moment He gave up His manhood He was witnessing to all them in the pit showing just how alive He was even then, why? Because He is God the Son Who cannot die ever as God and proving that fact to them, the very reason they were in that pit of darkness. Then He showed Himself to over four hundred still alive on this world to their amazement proving to them exactly Who He was and still is. He paid the price of sin for all them that the Father destined to be saved and now awaits His return to gather them all in. What a wonderful Saviour He is.

[Prodromos]

God's Wrath Against Sinful Humanity

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

[basics]

Turning from evil is what the heart indwelt by the Spirit enables the born again person to do and do out of love rather than malice meaning that these then are good works as prescribed by God's word. The greatest good work ever seen and known about is Jesus Christ's giving Himself as a substitute for wicked men and women to take on the wrath of His Father onto Himself for them. That's where good works begin and end because that's what is now expected of the new born believer. Are we prepared to give up our lives doing what He did for us?

[Prodromos]

Are we prepared to give up our lives doing what He did for us?

I'm reminded of a quote I read the other day:

Nothing teaches us about the preciousness of the Creator as much as when we learn the emptiness of everything else.

[Prodromos]

The Gospel of the free forgiveness of sins through Christ will never appeal to the self-righteous. This monster of self-righteousness, this stiff-necked beast, needs a big axe. And that is what the Law is, a big axe.

8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

[mishkin]

I wish that god existed so I could smash his head to hell.

[basics]

I wish that god existed so I could smash his head to hell.

mishkin,

Oh, I don't think you'll be doing that.

[Prodromos]

“God is wise in heart and mighty in strength — who has hardened himself against him, and succeeded?”

It's poor strategy to threaten someone infinitely stronger than you.

[Sir Adrian]

Right, but the idea that real, saving faith is necessarily accompanied by obedience and sanctification isn't in dispute here. No one believes that real, saving faith can exist apart from works, but that's not the same as being saved by works.

Nobody here ever claimed you can be saved by works alone. Also I would heavily refrain from quoting Calvin and Luther on the matter. Calvin did not believe in salvation at all, he believed that people were predestined and there was nothing they could do to alter that destiny because God already saw the entirety of that man's life.

Secondly Luther's words were an overreaction to the catholic practice of indulgence which the RCC falsely called works.

It is as the evangelists say, faith without works is dead and works without faith are empty. You need both for salvation. Sola fide is a lie.

[basics]

Sir Adrian,

God wouldn't be God if He couldn't predestine His creation the way He wanted it. The whole point of our existence for God's good pleasure was and is to build a people for Jesus Christ through the promise of His coming, His death and resurrection, that people preordained to be His from before creation itself. Their names are already sealed into the Book of Life and that before creation. Jesus never came for the healthy rather the sick and so works never came into that equation anywhere until after those people were saved.

[Sir Adrian]

God gave humanity free will, the cancels any form of predestination.

[mishkin]

It's poor strategy to threaten someone infinitely stronger than you.

He's a tough guy, right? what would he do to me?

[Lord Thesaurian]

He's a tough guy, right? what would he do to me?

He sent his own son to live and die as a man for you, that all of us might repent of our foolish pride and sinful ways, to know the joy of peace that only comes from God.

[basics]

God gave humanity free will, the cancels any form of predestination.

Sir Adrian,

When God made Adam and then Eve they had certain rules to keep meaning they both had a will but it was not free and if it had been free why did they hide from God when they realised their shame in being naked, that is realising they had broken His rule whithout any excuse. Ever since, all creation was handed over to sin which meant their wills were still not free and would never be free until God made that possible by rebirth through Jesus Christ. So, even today if one is reborn of the Spirit of God they are not free anymore than an unbelieving sinner is free, why? Because one belongs to God and the other belongs to Satan.

[Prodromos]

Nobody here ever claimed you can be saved by works alone. Also I would heavily refrain from quoting Calvin and Luther on the matter. Calvin did not believe in salvation at all, he believed that people were predestined and there was nothing they could do to alter that destiny because God already saw the entirety of that man's life.

Secondly Luther's words were an overreaction to the catholic practice of indulgence which the RCC falsely called works.

It is as the evangelists say, faith without works is dead and works without faith are empty. You need both for salvation. Sola fide is a lie.

We're not debating whether Luther and Calvin were right or wrong; we're debating whether they believed faith can exist apart from works. They didn't. Biblical ("Protestant") Christians have always believed that while we're not saved by works, we're nonetheless saved for good works. You need to become more familiar with the teachings of Protestantism if you think they include some form of antinomianism.

[basics]

Prodromos,

Isn't it funny that the thief on the cross didn't have a chance to do any good works but his faith that Jesus was going to a Kingdom was enough to be remembered and saved that very moment when he uttered these words. Good works therefore are a result of being saved them being the fruit of the Holy Ghost that indwells the new believer. So what are these good works? They begin by telling of the good news that Jesus Christ died to save sinners separated by their sin from God. That good news is the power of God unto salvation and it is by faith alone in believing that is how we are saved. That faith is a gift from God nothing to do with works at all and given by Grace to a person who doesn't deserve it, why? Because he or she is a sinner incapable of doing anything to bring about his or her salvation.