Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

[basics]

Akar,

Just think that everytime you wake up you see Jesus, only you won't be waking up as you'll never get to sleep ever again, just Jesus standing before you forever. That's what hell is like. You sure that's what you want?

[Turkafinwë]

Jesus by all accounts is an absolute bro. I'm pretty sure he'll just pass the myrrh and we'll all have a wonderful time.

[Cope]

Akar,

Just think that everytime you wake up you see Jesus, only you won't be waking up as you'll never get to sleep ever again, just Jesus standing before you forever. That's what hell is like. You sure that's what you want?

According to predeterminist reasoning, what a person wants is irrelevant, as is what they do.

[pacifism]

We'd be illiterate muckfarmers worshiping a loaf of bread and praying to Pachamama for a good harvest after wasting all our money buying dead saints' bones from the local monastery to ward off the latest plague sweeping through the land.

Can confirm this is catholic life

It is known: Roman Catholics who know their catechisms are basically just those peasants from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

[Akar]

Akar,

Just think that everytime you wake up you see Jesus, only you won't be waking up as you'll never get to sleep ever again, just Jesus standing before you forever. That's what hell is like. You sure that's what you want?

Sounds boring as hell (pun intended), but I don't care. I'm 100% confident I wont be going to hell or heaven when I die - or anywhere for that matter.

Jesus by all accounts is an absolute bro. I'm pretty sure he'll just pass the myrrh and we'll all have a wonderful time.

Hits Myrrh "bro can you believe all these nutjobs are killing people in my name?" exhales myrrh.

According to predeterminist reasoning, what a person wants is irrelevant, as is what they do.

Exactly. My atheism is all part of god's plan, bro.

[Turkafinwë]

Hits Myrrh "bro can you believe all these nutjobs are killing people in my name?" exhales myrrh.

bruuuuuuuh

[basics]

Akar,

You won't know God's plan for you until death comes. You could still be an atheist or you could be a convert, that is up to Him so only time will tell.

[Akar]

Except it's not, so...

[Prodromos]

Can confirm this is catholic life

It is known: Roman Catholics who know their catechisms are basically just those peasants from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

Thankfully, most Catholics today would be horrified by medieval Catholic life, but it's safe to say not much would've changed without the Reformation and the scientific, industrial and political revolutions that followed it. The Reformers had their own religious reasons for opposing superstition, but when you remember that superstition is a system geared primarily toward attaining material prosperity and gaining control over one's environment, it's easy to see why in the developed world even non-Protestants have abandoned most of their superstitious practices.

The rest of the world is a different matter entirely, though.

[Akar]

the Reformation and the scientific, industrial and political revolutions that followed it

Huh? Are you confusing the Reformation with the Renaissance? The Protestant Reformation doesn't deserve any credit for scientific, industrial, or political revolutions. What a weirdly revisionist claim to make.

[Prodromos]

The Protestant Reformation doesn't deserve any credit for scientific, industrial, or political revolutions.

I didn't say it does (preceding =/= causing), although it actually does.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

Luther wanted no political revolution against the god given secular authorities. He was strictly opposed to the uprising of the german peasants in the German Peasants War:

Luther's revolution may have added intensity to these movements, but did not create them; the two events, Luther's Protestant Reformation and the German Peasants' War, were separate, sharing the same years but occurring independently.^[38] However, Luther's doctrine of the "priesthood of all believers" could be interpreted as proposing greater social equality than Luther intended. Luther vehemently opposed the revolts, writing the pamphlet Against the Murderous, Thieving Hordes of Peasants, in which he remarks "Let everyone who can, smite, slay, and stab, secretly or openly ... nothing can be more poisonous, hurtful, or devilish than a rebel. It is just as one must kill a mad dog; if you do not strike him he will strike you."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German...;s_Reformation

[Prodromos]

Luther wasn't the only Protestant, though I'm fairly sure the Reformation led to a lot of radical political developments (both good and bad) in Germany and the broader Holy Roman Empire.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

Calvin was also no democratic reformer, as he erected a theocracy in Geneva.

[basics]

The Reformation meant that ordinary people could see or hear what God's word actually said. These men and women were for the most part Roman Catholics who spoke out against what Rome had become. Democracy had nothing to do with what they preached as God was their centre of belief in every aspect, was and still is according to what is the Written Word.

[Prodromos]

Christian belief has implications on how we treat other people, though, including in the political sphere.

[Akar]

Democracy had nothing to do with what they preached as God was their centre of belief in every aspect, was and still is according to what is the Written Word.

Huh? Are you suggesting that we should all be lead by a divine theocracy or some , rather than by our own self determination?

[basics]

Akar,

That's where the big lie comes into play, why? Because that's more or less what the serpent persuaded Adam and Eve to believe and look where it got us. Our Creator only made it that way so the He in Christ Jesus could enter His world to make His good pleasure come to a conclusive end. Your self determination can but lead only one of two places why? Because He is God the One who determines anything.

[Prodromos]

Dietrich Bonhoeffer on the Incarnation:

"What a wonder that two natures infinitely distant should be more intimately united than anything in the world. That the same person should have both a glory and a grief; an infinite joy in the Deity, and an inexpressible sorrow in the humanity! That a God upon a throne should be an infant in a cradle; the thundering Creator be a weeping babe and a suffering man.

The incarnation astonishes men upon earth, and angels in heaven."

- Stephen Charnock

[Akar]

That's where the big lie comes into play, why?

Ahh yes, the Big Lie. Leave it to you to reference nazi propaganda when discussing god...

Akar,

Because that's more or less what the serpent persuaded Adam and Eve to believe and look where it got us. Our Creator only made it that way so the He in Christ Jesus could enter His world to make His good pleasure come to a conclusive end. Your self determination can but lead only one of two places why? Because He is God the One who determines anything.

So let's get this straight. God creates everything, including the tree, and tells Adam and Eve they can eat everything except from that one tree. Problem is, they have no way of knowing disobeying is wrong until they eat from the tree. This is what's known as an "attractive nuisance". With no sense of right and wrong (because, again, they haven't eaten from the tree yet), they can't be held accountable for doing anything that is deemed "wrong" or "right". Not only that, but they were influenced by a creature that did know right from wrong to commit the act, even further removing Adam and Eve from the cross hairs. Now take into consideration the concept of predestination, which you claim to believe in. According to that, wouldn't both the snake and Adam and Eve be predestined to their fate in spite of god's warning not to do something (which, again, remember they have no sense of right or wrong yet) because god had already preordained before he created them that they would disobey him and that he would punish them? Oh, and to top it off, we assign guilt/blame to every single one of Adam and Eve's descendants for the actions of Adam and Eve. Is it really ethical to punish children for the crimes of their parents? I suppose according to the bible.This sounds like we're just in a massive Rube Goldberg machine with god flipping the first lever, already knowing whats going to happen, just to see what happens?

Your self determination can but lead only one of two places why? Because He is God the One who determines anything.

Even assuming that's true, isn't the concept of self determination antithetical to the predestination that you believe in?