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Thread: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

  1. #181
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    We all know what Dawkins thinks about God so it's not an oversimplification at all.
    It obviously is an oversimplification by the literal definition of the word and all possible uses of it. You can't sum up decades of research into biology and the sciences by simply saying "oh he thinks god isn't real". If anything, it speaks to your lack of intelligence rather than his. You're unable to even recognize someone's success and knowledge even if you disagree with it. You should be more open minded, I think.

    Again, funny how you think you can summarize someone's work without having even read it either. You think you know better than all of the scientists just because you've read the bible, laughable.

    And, for these conditions to make any sense one has to develope billions and billions of years into the imagination of young people as though it were fact when it is not.
    Something that we have a tremendous amount of proof for. I'm not even going to bother going into this again because I know you're too obstinate to even care if I typed out an essay about why you're wrong.

    What we can agree on is that Nancy never claimed to be God as Jesus Christ did and it's that claim that has outperformed every other publication ever made. Why would that be if there was no God?
    Probably because a bunch of nutters have spent the past 2000 years violently repressing all other religions and spreading as many bibles to as many places as possible, usually forcefully converting people as they go along. Not to mention all of the Gideon bibles that no one ever reads, or those tiny little pocket bibles that people hand out that no one ever reads. The amount of times something has been printed or repeated as no bearing on the veracity of the statement. If there were more Nancy Drew books than Bible's would that somehow make Nancy Drew more or less true than it is?

    No, of course not. And the same is true of the bible.

    Oh, and interestingly enough it would seem that the bible might not even be the best selling book ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    According to Guinness World Records as of 1995, the Bible is the best-selling book of all time, with an estimated 5 billion copies sold and distributed.[1] The Quotations from Chairman Mao Tse-tung, also known as the Little Red Book, has produced a wide array of sales and distribution figures — with estimates ranging from 800 million[1] to over 6.5 billion printed volumes,[2] with some claiming the distribution ran into the "billions"[3] and some citing "over a billion" official volumes between 1966 and 1969 alone as well as "untold numbers of unofficial local reprints and unofficial translations."
    Seems like Mao might be the new Jesus then, Basics. Better get your little red book. I expect you to be a devoted Maoist by the next time you post. Wikipedia also mentions that religious books are not typically counted, saying:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Exact print figures for these and other books may also be missing or unreliable since these kinds of books may be produced by many different and unrelated publishers, in some cases over many centuries. All books of a religious, ideological, philosophical or political nature have thus been excluded from the below lists of best-selling books for these reasons.
    This should show you exactly why a number of times a book has been printed or published is a terrible way to decide the veracity of the contents. The more times something is repeated, doesn't make it more true each time. In fact, it has the potential to be less true over time due to the insidious chinese. This is especially true of books that have been translated back and forth between different languages over time, like the bible.

    There's a fun game that people used to play on the internet, where you take a sentence and run it through google translate a few times in languages to see how easily the phrases get ed up, and the humorous results thereof. So you take it from English > Greek > Hebrew > Latin > French > English or whatever and see how bad it got.

    I for example took the phrase "Akar is the superior man." and ran it through the translator a few times and it came back out "The meaning of the images." which just goes to show the unreliability of translations, especially when you take into account things like similes and metaphors and what not.

    Concerning debauchery I think any sane person will see the results on our streets driven primarily by so-called brainy teachers at our colleges and universities. Perhaps mayhem would have been a better word for it.
    What debauchery on ours streets are you referring to? Be specific, because it's pretty clear that it's not so obvious to anyone but you.

    And again, be specific about what exactly you think these teachers are doing. What debauchery are they influencing or coercing out of these kids that otherwise wouldn't have manifested?

    What "mayhem" do you see on the streets right now? Are you talking about the protests in the US? Because that has nothing to do with christianity or atheism, it has to do with civil rights.

    Religious people may sit around waiting for something to happen but a Christian won't and doesn't if he or she really belongs to Jesus Christ.
    It's ironic to see the "no true scotsman" fallacy in full force from a scotsman.

    and if there is no God how is it possible for so many over the years to have their lives altered in such a way as to baffle relatives, friends and foes alike?
    You're going to judge the validity of a religion based off how confused your friends, relatives, and foes are by your beliefs? If your friends, family, and foes all agree that you're doing something wrong maybe you actually are, ever think of that? They say that if everywhere you go smells like , maybe you're the one that smells like , not everyone else. Life altering isn't really a important qualifier for religious truth either. A broken neck is life changing too. So is a traumatic brain injury or paranoid schizophrenia.

    The effect something has on your life is not necessarily an indicator of the validity of the belief. There's plenty of perfectly happy idiots out there who's life is probably better off for the stupid they believe, but that doesn't make it true. Refer to what I said about Santa earlier.
    Last edited by Akar; June 26, 2020 at 04:35 AM.

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  2. #182
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Akar,

    I have not read nor heard everything he has said or written but I have portions the best being Alistair Mcgrath's response to the God Delusion. As regards the Bible I look on it as the very words of God given to men to put down in writing as if He Himself did it. The thing is about it is that it contains too much science when science was not a subject at all so if that makes me unintelligent so be it. I stand guilty.

    You have no proof for creation, that's why billions of years are added into the making of us. God was there when He created all things through Jesus Christ and you have no proof that He wasn't. So, to get around any responsibilty for your own sins you jump on the Darwin bandwagon which is still only a theory.

    No bearing on its veracity eh! That book is changing the lives of many people across this world as I write, why? Because it is the very bread of life to those who are lost, those that thought they were wise in their own eyes yet became fools in the eyes of God. I hate to say this but someday eveyone will find out how true God's word was and still is.

    Well according to God's word ole Mao is sweating in hell along with a whole host of others who wilfully denied the existence of God and His Saviour Jesus Christ. Since we know that the world in general hates God it will come as no surprise to know that Mao's writings will appeal to many even today. Jesus described hell as a very personalised place so I doubt that anyone in it will be able to converse with each other. By that time all the books written by any of them will have been burnt up as a scroll along with creation itself. Superior man eh! We'll see how superior you are when you have to give account to the God Whom you despise.

    The debauchery I talk of is the mayhem and violence that we are now seeing spreading across certain areas of the world. It's not about democracy at all, rather about the power to silence anyone disagreeing with the leaders of these protests each of which would like to become little Mao's. You see when you destroy God in the minds of people what have you left? When laws are crashed down where does it leave democracy? Take away the policing system and what do you get? Rapes, killings, looting and burning just like in Seattle as well as other places. Where are all these liberal lefties when their voices are needed? No voices why? Because they are the ones who by their teaching and preaching like Dawkins are the root cause of the problems.

    Every single person I have talked to or read of regarding them being born again, in every single instance they have received opposition whether inside their families, friends or relatives. In some cases they have been put out of their home or gone out of their home for their own safety. We expect it simply because the world hates God, hates the very idea that each and every one is accountable to Him as you will find out the day your superiority is cut down to size.

    Now regarding Santa your beef is about all that has been added to the story of St Nicholas and really I don't see why? I remeber as a child sitting on Santa's lap and getting my picture taken with him. I remember at our church receiving a Christmas gift from Santa. I remember too my brothers telling me that santa wasn't real, that it was our parents who placed the gifts by our bedside on Christmas Eve so keeping quiet about that I didn't destroy their enjoyment when they did so. It was a great time and a time when we learned a little about Jesus coming into the world. So, all the unbelievers who indulge their children as well are perhaps unknowingly or unwittingly giving their children some knowledge of Him and that can only be good, not as you are trying to make out. Christmas is one of the lovliest times of the year so why be a misery guts like you?

  3. #183
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    You see when you destroy God in the minds of people what have you left? When laws are crashed down where does it leave democracy? Take away the policing system and what do you get? Rapes, killings, looting and burning just like in Seattle as well as other places. Where are all these liberal lefties when their voices are needed? No voices why? Because they are the ones who by their teaching and preaching like Dawkins are the root cause of the problems.
    If God is the only thing holding them back previously, wouldn't you agree these people are in fact demons and those godless teachings merely reveal to the world their true identity? You can't turn a pile of faeces into something valuable by painting them gold, which seems like the only positive function of God's laws.

  4. #184
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by AqD View Post
    If God is the only thing holding them back previously, wouldn't you agree these people are in fact demons and those godless teachings merely reveal to the world their true identity? You can't turn a pile of faeces into something valuable by painting them gold, which seems like the only positive function of God's laws.
    AqD,

    The Law was given to remind man that all were and are sinners whether Jew or natural law by Gentiles. Because no-one could keep them there would never be a way back to God but by an action of God which He predicted at the fall of man. The promised " seed " was and is Jesus Christ and His word to us is in the scriptures that make up our Bibles. So, is what is happening around us Biblical? Is Black Lives Matter Biblical or Antifa Biblical? Well as much as many want to see the good in them the fact is that both are not Biblical at all. The Bible teaches us that all rulers being appointed by God for His purposes we must respect them and do good so that they have nothing against us. This is clearly not what we find around us today, why? Because they are being led by men, nurtured by men and encouraged by men who hate God, men who will do anything to eraze Him from the people. They honestly believe that as there is no God there will be no repercussions and that goes all the way back to the garden and the big lie Satan had Adam and Eve believe.

  5. #185
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    I have not read nor heard everything he has said or written but I have portions the best being Alistair Mcgrath's response to the God Delusion.
    Again, this is what I'm talking about. You only have knowledge on one of his books, and it's one of the only three he has written about god. Which means that your understanding of Dawkin's work is unsurprisingly lacking. And that's not even considering that you haven't even personally read it yourself, you read someone else's response to it (who probably hasn't read it either let's be real). It's very easy to argue against something you've never read, because your criticisms can be as baseless as you want.

    As regards the Bible I look on it as the very words of God given to men to put down in writing as if He Himself did it.
    Which is a huge problem, because obviously not every version of the bible could be divinely inspired, could they? Surely some translations are more accurate than others, yes? If inaccuracies, however small, can arise from a mistranslation doesn't that call into question the entire history of the work outside of the first printing?

    The thing is about it is that it contains too much science when science was not a subject at all so if that makes me unintelligent so be it. I stand guilty.
    Wait, you're not talking about the bible here are you? You're not trying to suggest that the bible contains science are you? That's just patently untrue.

    If you're talking about Dawkin's works, that's fine and understandable. There is nothing wrong with admitting that you don't understand something, that doesn't make you unintelligent. In fact, quite the opposite. Admitting you don't understand a subject fully is a sign of intelligence, so long as it's also coupled with a desire to learn more about that subject to better yourself. Ignorance is not wrong, but willful ignorance is.

    You have no proof for creation, that's why billions of years are added into the making of us
    To be clear, you are the one who lacks proof for creation. I am the one with vast quantities of evidence on my side in favor of evolution, the big bang, and so forth. If you're willing to not dismiss the evidence out of hand when I present it to you, I am willing to do so. But as of yet every time I have presented the evidence you have disregarded it, so I have to admit I don't feel particularly inclined to continue repeating myself to someone who won't read or at least acknowledge my arguments for it.

    We have proof of the big bang, through observing the cosmic microwave background radiation, the large structural nature of the observable universe, as well as Hubble's Law (galaxies move faster the further away they are from Earth). If you extrapolate all of these effects backwards, you reach a single super dense point of matter or singularity. It's impossible given our current understanding of physics for us to ever see what happened before the big bang, though we can observe what happened IMMEDIATELY after the big bang and can reproduce the effects of the big bang using things like the large hadron collider.

    Additionally, there is no "billions of years" added to anything. That's simply the amount of time that the earth has exited for. It actually "only" took a billion years for life to evolve on earth, which is not that bad considering the hellish conditions that existed on the early earth. Billions of years might seem like a long time to us, but on a cosmological time scale it's absolutely nothing.

    God was there when He created all things through Jesus Christ and you have no proof that He wasn't.
    First of all, I don't think anywhere in the bible does it say that god used Jesus Christ to create things or created all things through him. That would be illogical, as Jesus is his son and wasn't mentioned until the new testament outside of prophecies of a virgin birth and naming him Immanuel. The trinity is not even mentioned in the bible and is a creation of the later church.

    Secondly, not being able to prove a negative doesn't prove a positive. I can't prove that the universe wasn't created in 14 days by a rainbow haired pony named Dilbert after consulting with Mohamed, but I feel comfortable dismissing that out of hand because of,

    A) The lack of evidence for the claim outside of the claim itself. i.e, the bible cannot logically be the source for the bible.

    B) A plethora of evidence showing the actual origins of the earth and the universe.

    Saying "you can't prove it doesn't" as your only argument for the veracity of something is tenuous at best.

    So, to get around any responsibilty for your own sins
    Everyone is responsible for their own actions, they just aren't going to be judged for them after they die. I don't understand how not believing in god absolves me of any responsibility for my actions or "sins"?

    you jump on the Darwin bandwagon which is still only a theory.
    Uhh, no. It's not "just a theory".

    Let me start by saying that you show a clear lack of understanding of what the term "theory" means in scientific discourse. A scientific theory is defined as the following,

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiki
    "A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can be repeatedly tested and verified in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results."
    Nothing about a scientific theory implies a lack of understanding. In fact, it's quite the opposite. Something cannot be a scientific theory if it's not testable and verifiable in accordance with the scientific method. Otherwise it's not science, it's illogical. We can observe evolution in nature and can watch it happening in real time. You don't question people breeding different kinds of dogs together or seem mystified by the idea of breeding two different kinds of tomato together to get a tomato that lasts longer. These are all very simple examples of evolution that have taken place on a quick enough scale that you can observe it in your life time. If you want, I can provide you more examples than that.

    As for when we can't observe things in our life times, we have things like fossil records and radiocarbon dating that let us gain an understanding of how things change over time and the differences between modern and ancient creatures. Science is a process and it is never complete. Our understanding of everything grows and evolves over time, just like nature does.

    This is not a bandwagon. There is a clear, unified, scientific consensus behind evolution. Don't just take my word for it. In 1966 a petition entitled "is biological evolution a principle of nature that has been well established by science?" in May of 1966, that stated the following,

    Quote Originally Posted by Herman J. Muller
    There are no hypotheses, alternative to the principle of evolution with its "tree of life," that any competent biologist of today takes seriously. Moreover, the principle is so important for an understanding of the world we live in and of ourselves that the public in general, including students taking biology in high school, should be made aware of it, and of the fact that it is firmly established, even as the rotundity of the earth is firmly established
    This petition was signed by 177 American biologists,

    "including George G. Simpson of Harvard University, Nobel Prize Winner Peter Agre of Duke University, Carl Sagan of Cornell, John Tyler Bonner of Princeton, Nobel Prize Winner George Beadle, President of the University of Chicago, and Donald F. Kennedy of Stanford University, formerly head of the United States Food and Drug Administration."

    Additionally there is "Project Steve" which showed that more scientists with the name Steve or a variant thereof support Evolution than the entirety of the scientists who support intelligent design.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiki
    The Discovery Institute announced that over 700 scientists had expressed support for intelligent design as of February 8, 2007.[50] This prompted the National Center for Science Education to produce a "light-hearted" petition called "Project Steve" in support of evolution. Only scientists named "Steve" or some variation (such as Stephen, Stephanie, and Stefan) are eligible to sign the petition. It is intended to be a "tongue-in-cheek parody" of the lists of alleged "scientists" supposedly supporting creationist principles that creationist organizations produce.[51][52] The petition demonstrates that there are more scientists who accept evolution with a name like "Steve" alone (over 1370[53]) than there are in total who support intelligent design. This is, again, why the percentage of scientists who support evolution has been estimated by Brian Alters to be about 99.9 percent.[54]
    So again, no, evolution is not "just a theory" and there is a clear scientific consensus behind it. Even the Catholic church supports the evolutionary argument. You are a minority even amongst Christians in your belief that evolution is not real. It's also worth mentioning that the bible, outside of a literalist young earth perspective, does not preclude evolution either.

    No bearing on its veracity eh! That book is changing the lives of many people across this world as I write, why?
    Whether or not something is deemed life saving by it's readers is no evidence of it's truth or veracity. Otherwise you would need to accept this as evidence in favor of other religions as well. Something I'm sure that you are unwilling to do.

    Because it is the very bread of life to those who are lost, those that thought they were wise in their own eyes yet became fools in the eyes of God.
    This doesn't mean anything.

    Well according to God's word ole Mao is sweating in hell along with a whole host of others who wilfully denied the existence of God and His Saviour Jesus Christ.
    I don't think Jesus Christ is god's saviour?

    Since we know that the world in general hates God it will come as no surprise to know that Mao's writings will appeal to many even today.
    Nice victim complex there. You had several hundred years where religious people were the only ones in charge and look where that got everyone. The dark ages. Let's not go back to a time when the world loved god, because that was a time for everyone but god.

    Jesus described hell as a very personalised place so I doubt that anyone in it will be able to converse with each other. By that time all the books written by any of them will have been burnt up as a scroll along with creation itself. Superior man eh! We'll see how superior you are when you have to give account to the God Whom you despise.
    I don't despise him, I just don't care about him or think he's real. He has absolutely no bearing on my day to day life what so ever - outside of the times I spend disproving his existence. Apocalyptic language is easy and fun to write, but that doesn't make it true. When I die, nothing will happen. I will cease to exist and it will be just like before I was born. It's nothing to fear or be worried about.

    The debauchery I talk of is the mayhem and violence that we are now seeing spreading across certain areas of the world.
    The mayhem and debauchery done in the name of god, usually. Again, please be more specific about what debauchery and mayhem you're alluding to.

    It's not about democracy at all, rather about the power to silence anyone disagreeing with the leaders of these protests each of which would like to become little Mao's. You see when you destroy God in the minds of people what have you left?
    These protests are against police brutality and the authoritarian government. These are the exact things that Jesus stood for when he was alive, but you've bastardized what he stood for so much he wouldn't even recognizes you as a christian if he saw you.

    These protests have nothing do with god. I don't understand why you try to bring god into it when no one else is.

    When laws are crashed down where does it leave democracy?
    No one (outside of Trump and Co.) are trying to crash down laws or democracy. I'm genuinely confused by what you're talking about.

    Take away the policing system and what do you get?
    Police reform and police defunding are not calls for "taking away the police system" or anything like that. Please research oppoosing viewpoints or you do yourself a disservice when you try to discredit things they aren't even advocating for. There is a very small minority of people who want no police at all. For example, you can look at Camden, NJ where the police department was disolved in 2012 due to corruption and replaced with an entire new police department.

    Quote Originally Posted by [URL="https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/us/disband-police-camden-new-jersey-trnd/index.html"
    CNN[/URL]]Now, seven years after the old department was booted (though around 100 officers were rehired), the city's crime has dropped by close to half.
    As you can see, these are not baseless notions or calls for anarchy. We, the people, want and have a right to have justice that is equal for all. If the arbiters of justice are no longer just, it is our duty to recall and replace them with those who would adjudicate the law impartially as they should and who will protect and serve the people.

    Rapes, killings, looting and burning just like in Seattle as well as other places.
    I'm fairly sure there isn't "raping" at the protests. As for the burning and looting, well, what else can you do to express your dissatisfaction with a society that values capital, property, and the acquisition of wealth over human lives? Why are you more angry about looting and burning than you are about people being murdered by those who they are supposed to be protected by?

    Where are all these liberal lefties when their voices are needed? No voices why? Because they are the ones who by their teaching and preaching like Dawkins are the root cause of the problems.
    Out in the streets advocating for equality and justice just like always. Just like with womens rights and gay rights, they are out there fighting for black rights. There is no true equality until there is equality for all. You are more upset by people voicing their complaints than you are upset about people silencing those complaints with brutal force. Where are you complaining about the reporters who have been blinded and the people who have been permanently crippled by the police brutality?

    Every single person I have talked to or read of regarding them being born again, in every single instance they have received opposition whether inside their families, friends or relatives. In some cases they have been put out of their home or gone out of their home for their own safety. We expect it simply because the world hates God, hates the very idea that each and every one is accountable to Him as you will find out the day your superiority is cut down to size.
    Again, that's not evidence for the existence of god. Tons of people are persecuted for various reasons and it is not an inherent validation of those beliefs. Maybe you are being judged and shamed because your beliefs are disgusting and abhorent, not because you're a christian?

    Now regarding Santa your beef is about all that has been added to the story of St Nicholas and really I don't see why? I remeber as a child sitting on Santa's lap and getting my picture taken with him. I remember at our church receiving a Christmas gift from Santa. I remember too my brothers telling me that santa wasn't real, that it was our parents who placed the gifts by our bedside on Christmas Eve so keeping quiet about that I didn't destroy their enjoyment when they did so. It was a great time and a time when we learned a little about Jesus coming into the world. So, all the unbelievers who indulge their children as well are perhaps unknowingly or unwittingly giving their children some knowledge of Him and that can only be good, not as you are trying to make out.
    Clearly you missed the entire point of what I said about Santa and you should go back and re-read it. My point was that Santa is an example of something that makes us feel good, but isn't true. And just because it does make us feel good, doesn't make it true. Just like with religion. It might make you feel good, it might not, but that doesn't make it true.

    Christmas is one of the lovliest times of the year so why be a misery guts like you?
    I didn't say anything about christmas. I used Santa as rhetorical example and you have misunderstood it.

    The Law was given to remind man that all were and are sinners whether Jew or natural law by Gentiles. Because no-one could keep them there would never be a way back to God but by an action of God which He predicted at the fall of man.
    So basically entrapment, then? God makes rules he knows people will break just so he can punish them and force them to worship him or else they'll go to hell? That doesn't seem very fair does it? And if it's all predestined anyway, why not just do what ever you want all the time anyway? Clearly that's part of god's plan if you're doing it, right? And at that, why not just walk across the road and run red lights? If it's god's plan you'll live, if you die hey that's god's plan too! There is no logical consistency to this kind of thinking.

    So, is what is happening around us Biblical?
    No, and no one is claiming that it is.

    Is Black Lives Matter Biblical or Antifa Biblical?
    Black Lives Matter is a loose organization with 2-3 dozen chapters in various cities and states. I don't understand how they would possibly be biblical or what you could mean by that.

    Antifa is not an organization or group. It's a label that people identify themselves with and it literally means "anti facist". So if you are against facism (you know, nazism) then you're antifa too. There is no leader of antifa, no structure, nothing. If you're against the idea of "antifa" then you are, by definition, pro facist.

    Well as much as many want to see the good in them the fact is that both are not Biblical at all.
    Biblicity has no bearing on good or bad or morality in general.

    The Bible teaches us that all rulers being appointed by God for His purposes we must respect them and do good so that they have nothing against us.
    "Render unto Caesar" does not mean "do whatever hitler tells you to do". Why would supporting an unchristian ruler somehow be the christian thing to do? Again, it's illogical.

    This is clearly not what we find around us today, why? Because they are being led by men, nurtured by men and encouraged by men who hate God, men who will do anything to eraze Him from the people.
    The fact is that no one cares about god outside of religious people. I don't wake up and think "how can I undermine god today", and I don't think anyone else does either. I post here because I enjoy discussing and debating these kinds of things, not because I "hate god" or something like that. I don't think about him at all.

    They honestly believe that as there is no God there will be no repercussions and that goes all the way back to the garden and the big lie Satan had Adam and Eve believe.
    It's ridiculous to say that there will be no reprecussions, because clearly we as a society have established a system of reprecussions. Up to and including death, as a possible consquence for your actions. Yes, obviously we believe there will no reprecussions in a second life or afterlife or whatever, because we don't believe in the concept of one. This isn't a difficult idea to wrap your head around. People don't stop believing in god because they're afraid of facing him in hell or what ever, they do it because it doesn't make sense. If you were afraid of reprecussions, wouldn't you want to worship god so you don't have to face reprecussions? Because last I checked, you can do pretty much whatever you want and so long as you ask for forgiveness you get off scott free. If anything, that makes you more likely to committ awful acts because you know you can get cheap and easy forgiveness for it.

    Also, the whole garden of eden is ridiculous too. Why would you make a garden with one tree that you can't eat or else? That, again, makes no sense. It's entrapment. Not to mention that before they eat from the tree they would have no idea of right or wrong, which means they wouldn't know eating from it is wrong. And, again, assuming predestination is real that would mean god knew that if he put that tree there they would eat it and eventually go to hell, and he still put it there anyway. God is more responsible for their actions then they are. They have no agency, no knowledge of right or wrong and no life experience.

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  6. #186
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Akar,

    OK, where to begin? Let's start with the fact that you put me in by placing me apart from Dawkins because he is a scientist and I am not. You therefore assume that he is correct and me not. However I am an engineer to trade and so I guess when it comes to engineering in my specific field I will have more knowledge than him. Or, when it comes to knowing God as I do, he doesn't so all his science avails him nothing why? Because he has no experience of God whilst I have as have many others. I don't need to read all his books as I have seen portions as well as heard him and it is from the hearing I realised how rude and ignorant he is.

    You say the Bible has no science in it and yet what is considered the first written word, the Book of Job, clearly tells us that the earth was round. That you cannot see how God introduced health and safety very early for the Jews to follow is another example of science at work in the hands of God, but then perhaps it's something you'ld rather ignore. The wonderful science behind the creation of all living things has yet to be proven unBiblical as James Tour explains in one of his wonderful appraisals of how scientists keep failing to explain how we got here. Yes, there have been many claims of breakthrough's but all fail mathematically as Tour explains why.

    Concerning Jesus' authority to create has 19 sources in the Bible the most famous of which is 1 John.......

    Concerning the Triune Godhead we must look at the very first verses of the Bible to see it or them in action. God created a darkened environment we know as space. Inside it He created a planet covered in water and over it hovered or fluttered the Holy Spirit. As the Father is a blinding Light on Whom no-one can look and live, if it was Him Who was present there couldn't have been darkness and there would have been no need to say, " Let there be light and there was light." Therefore we have the Father still on His throne, the Holy Spirit fluttering over this planet yet no mention yet of Jesus. Was He not there? Of course He was but as yet not mentioned until we get to the special garden placed to the East of Eden. It is written there that Adam walked and talked with God in the garden which would have been impossible for him to do and live, so Who was it that walked and talked with him? The only Person it could have been was Jesus in a bodily form, the same bodily form that appeared as Melchizadec and the same bodily form that wrestled with Jacob both from everlasting to everlasting. Yes this Jesus Who was to come into the world as a " seed " of Eve was present at Creation and indeed was our Creator.

    He had to be for science cannot explain Him turning water into wine, walking on water, healing the sick and disabled, even raising the dead. Science can't even explain why the world is in such a state as it is today but the Bible clearly tells us why? The fall of man brought it all about but then why expect man to put it right when he cannot live at peace with his neighbours. The only thing science seems certain about is that this world is doomed and according to the Bible that is to be the case.

    The one big mistake both believers and unbelievers make is that they think our being here is about us. Our creation is about God Who for His good pleasure created a storyline for His own glory, man being but bitpart players in it. Game of thrones was good as was Harry Potter but not as good or rich as the Story told in God's word the Bible. In the former one can only read to enjoy them yet from God's word one can get involved personally in the story. One can experience a personal relationship in reality with the Story Teller and the strange thing is that the Story has already been finished by Him although we have yet to see the ending. It's all predetermined for the greatest Story ever told.

  7. #187
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    AqD,

    The Law was given to remind man that all were and are sinners whether Jew or natural law by Gentiles. Because no-one could keep them there would never be a way back to God but by an action of God which He predicted at the fall of man. The promised " seed " was and is Jesus Christ and His word to us is in the scriptures that make up our Bibles. So, is what is happening around us Biblical? Is Black Lives Matter Biblical or Antifa Biblical? Well as much as many want to see the good in them the fact is that both are not Biblical at all. The Bible teaches us that all rulers being appointed by God for His purposes we must respect them and do good so that they have nothing against us. This is clearly not what we find around us today, why? Because they are being led by men, nurtured by men and encouraged by men who hate God, men who will do anything to eraze Him from the people. They honestly believe that as there is no God there will be no repercussions and that goes all the way back to the garden and the big lie Satan had Adam and Eve believe.
    How do you explain the negative correlation of religiousness with standard of living, except in post-communist countries where religion was deliberately suppressed?

    Also if men tend to harm themselves by nature, wouldn't you say God's design has failed from the beginning? The society of ants is like heaven in comparison and I doubt they worship anything.



    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    These protests are against police brutality and the authoritarian government. These are the exact things that Jesus stood for when he was alive, but you've bastardized what he stood for so much he wouldn't even recognizes you as a christian if he saw you.
    Jesus and his followers didn't rob, steal or set public properties on fire to prove their point.

    PS: If I didn't know where you come from, I'd say your comments are about pre-civilwar Syria or Libya

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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    AqD,

    Here in Britain religion has become a kind of status symbol where to become an elder or deacon adds to the self esteem especially in churches where the Gospel is not preached and certain points in it are not believed. In other words very few men of God are actually in our pulpits today nor have they been for a long time. Oh they go through the motions and that's about it.

    When God handed man over to sin, the nature of all things changed, man turning on man and animals turning on just about anything. You see the results of how uncontrolled people can get if they don't get their own way and how others anger gets up when it is exposed. Perhaps the biggest result of the fall of man is that millions of black, white, sallow skinned babies are torn, ripped out of their mother's wombs by abortion and not one Black Lives Matter or any others protest about that. Mention that and see the anger rise to the surface. Bring back no more abortions and see the buildings burn then.

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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Perhaps the biggest result of the fall of man is that millions of black, white, sallow skinned babies are torn, ripped out of their mother's wombs by abortion and not one Black Lives Matter or any others protest about that.
    Right, because that's not what BLM is about. It's not an abortion rights group and I'm certain there are members of the movement who are pro life, it's a movement founded specifically to fight against police violence. So yeah, obviously people will get upset when you completely misrepresent, misunderstand, and misconstrue their movement and message. In the educated world, abortion is already a settled debate. No one outside of the christian south and places like Saudi Arabia have any disagreement about a woman's right to choose. This is not what people are fighting for. BLM is about police brutalizing, arresting, and killing minorities at a rate significantly higher than that of white people. It's about everyone being equal in the eyes of man and the law and ensuring justice is blind. It's not about trying to solve gang violence or black on black crime which the community obviously knows is an issue and has been trying to solve for decades already.

    So whenever someone says "why aren't you upset about black babies being aborted or gang shootings" they're laughed at or considered stupid because they're completely missing the point. Saying "black lives matter" doesn't also mean "only black people killed by the cops matter" or "only black lives matter" or "free abortions for everyone!".

    Bring back no more abortions and see the buildings burn then.
    Why on earth do you think restricting people's rights is a good idea? When has taking away rights ever been the right choice to make?

    Oh and what an absurdly ridiculous thing to claim.

    or any others protest about that
    Here is a list of organizations against abortion in the United States.

    And here is a list of just the violence against people who are pro-life.

    So it would seem that your side is full of hypocrisy. You don't want people to kill babies so you.... kill adults? Okay?

    Also, let's do a little thought experiment shall we?

    What happens when a baby is aborted? Does the baby go to heaven or to hell? If it goes to hell, then according to christian belief it would logically follow that that would be murder and a sin and I can understand that from your perspective.

    However, if the baby does go to heaven when it gets aborted, is it not then morally better to abort the baby? Assuming all aborted babies go to heaven, it's better for the baby to be aborted and guaranteed entry to heaven, than to be born and have only a chance at being saved and entering heaven.

    In other words very few men of God are actually in our pulpits today nor have they been for a long time. Oh they go through the motions and that's about it.
    Do I need to again highlight the irony of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy coming from a Scotsman?

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  10. #190

    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    Right, because that's not what BLM is about. It's not an abortion rights group and I'm certain there are members of the movement who are pro life, it's a movement founded specifically to fight against police violence. So yeah, obviously people will get upset when you completely misrepresent, misunderstand, and misconstrue their movement and message.
    There is no police violence issue in the United Kingdom. Nor is there a problem with mass incarceration. What you say BLM "is about" has no relevance here.

    In the educated world, abortion is already a settled debate. No one outside of the christian south and places like Saudi Arabia have any disagreement about a woman's right to choose.
    "Don't take refuge in the false security of consensus".

    This is not what people are fighting for. BLM is about police brutalizing, arresting, and killing minorities at a rate significantly higher than that of white people. It's about everyone being equal in the eyes of man and the law and ensuring justice is blind.
    See above.

    It's not about trying to solve gang violence or black on black crime which the community obviously knows is an issue and has been trying to solve for decades already. So whenever someone says "why aren't you upset about black babies being aborted or gang shootings" they're laughed at or considered stupid because they're completely missing the point. Saying "black lives matter" doesn't also mean "only black people killed by the cops matter" or "only black lives matter" or "free abortions for everyone!".
    When a movement claiming an interest in black lives is "not about trying to solve" any of the leading causes of black deaths you shouldn't be shocked when people treat it as front for other objectives. The procession of corporate endorsements that BLM has received should be evidence enough of that.

    Why on earth do you think restricting people's rights is a good idea? When has taking away rights ever been the right choice to make?

    Oh and what an absurdly ridiculous thing to claim.
    The only absurdity is your view that people ought have the right to end the lives of those who've been systemically dehumanized. That and your irritating overuse of italics.

    Here is a list of organizations against abortion in the United States.

    And here is a list of just the violence against people who are pro-life.

    So it would seem that your side is full of hypocrisy. You don't want people to kill babies so you.... kill adults? Okay?
    Who has claimed that murdering pro-life activists is agreeable? Or did you just introduce the idea to poison the well?

    Also, let's do a little thought experiment shall we?

    What happens when a baby is aborted? Does the baby go to heaven or to hell? If it goes to hell, then according to christian belief it would logically follow that that would be murder and a sin and I can understand that from your perspective.

    However, if the baby does go to heaven when it gets aborted, is it not then morally better to abort the baby? Assuming all aborted babies go to heaven, it's better for the baby to be aborted and guaranteed entry to heaven, than to be born and have only a chance at being saved and entering heaven.
    I see your point: we should just legalize murder against Christ's elect. That would be choice.

    Do I need to again highlight the irony of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy coming from a Scotsman?
    You need to reread the definition of the no true Scotsman fallacy.
    Last edited by Cope; June 30, 2020 at 05:46 PM.



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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Akar,

    Maybe I'm a bit dim but I seem to remember someone on a youtube debate saying that black on black deaths account for much more than any police on black deaths. Again another statistic states that these numbers are accounted for in mostly Democrat run areas. Black people mostly vote for Democrats so shouldn't their outbursts be against those whose votes have been ignored for so many years rather than against those that are suffering the rage we are now seeing?

    Being an advocate of science how do you get off trying to excuse killing a human baby when science says it is a human baby? The mother had the right to not get pregnant in the first place but she has the right to have it killed now that she is pregnant. Not even the animals do that and we are supposed to be superior to them. Is kill, rape, steal and burn the only way forward? Is that what you're advocating?

  12. #192
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    @Basics

    OK, where to begin? Let's start with the fact that you put me in by placing me apart from Dawkins because he is a scientist and I am not. You therefore assume that he is correct and me not.
    Well, that's a fair assumption to make. Why would I assume a layman is correct over a scientists in their field? Would you expect me to put more weight in your opinion than that of a mathematician if we were discussing maths? Clearly not, that would be absurd. And if you would expect that, you clearly have far too high of an opinion of yourself.

    However I am an engineer to trade and so I guess when it comes to engineering in my specific field I will have more knowledge than him.
    Cool. We aren't having a discussion about engineering though, are we? So that doesn't matter. At all.

    Or, when it comes to knowing God as I do, he doesn't so all his science avails him nothing why?
    Dawkins has definitely read the bible as he was raised christian and went to catholic school. Just because someone doesn't believe as you do doesn't mean they are any less knowledgeable of the source material.

    Because he has no experience of God whilst I have as have many others.
    What does "experience of god" even mean? A schizophrenic episode where you hear voices?

    I don't need to read all his books as I have seen portions as well as heard him and it is from the hearing I realised how rude and ignorant he is.
    Well you do need to read them all if you want people to take your sweeping generalizations with anything but a giant heap of salt.

    You say the Bible has no science in it and yet what is considered the first written word, the Book of Job, clearly tells us that the earth was round.
    The book of job is not considered to be the "first written word", don't make me laugh.

    I don't know if it does or doesn't say the world is round, but that doesn't matter. Just because it says it's round doesn't make that science. Saying "the earth is round" is not scientific. Saying "the earth is round because of X and Y and Z and you can confirm that for yourself using X method", like Eratosthenes did. Science is not just stating something that's true. It's a method of observing and testing theories and conceptions and seeing if they stand up or not.

    That you cannot see how God introduced health and safety very early for the Jews to follow is another example of science at work in the hands of God, but then perhaps it's something you'ld rather ignore.
    Again, that's not science. That's just stating things. And it doesn't even explain why, it just says "they are unclean". That's not science.

    The wonderful science behind the creation of all living things has yet to be proven unBiblical as James Tour explains in one of his wonderful appraisals of how scientists keep failing to explain how we got here. Yes, there have been many claims of breakthrough's but all fail mathematically as Tour explains why.
    Did you just completely skip over what I said before? The scientific consensus is very clear. You are wrong about this. One person disagreeing is not enough evidence when I have shown you that thousands agree with evolution and the science behind it.

    Concerning Jesus' authority to create has 19 sources in the Bible the most famous of which is 1 John.......
    God doesn't need to create through Jesus, though. You said "God created the world through Jesus" which is inaccurate, because there was no "Jesus" then for him to create the world through, nor does the Bible even suggest remotely that he did create the world through Jesus.

    Concerning the Triune Godhead we must look at the very first verses of the Bible to see it or them in action. God created a darkened environment we know as space. Inside it He created a planet covered in water and over it hovered or fluttered the Holy Spirit. As the Father is a blinding Light on Whom no-one can look and live, if it was Him Who was present there couldn't have been darkness and there would have been no need to say, " Let there be light and there was light." Therefore we have the Father still on His throne, the Holy Spirit fluttering over this planet yet no mention yet of Jesus. Was He not there? Of course He was but as yet not mentioned until we get to the special garden placed to the East of Eden. It is written there that Adam walked and talked with God in the garden which would have been impossible for him to do and live, so Who was it that walked and talked with him? The only Person it could have been was Jesus in a bodily form, the same bodily form that appeared as Melchizadec and the same bodily form that wrestled with Jacob both from everlasting to everlasting. Yes this Jesus Who was to come into the world as a " seed " of Eve was present at Creation and indeed was our Creator.
    I honestly can't make heads or tails of this word salad, sorry.

    He had to be for science cannot explain Him turning water into wine, walking on water, healing the sick and disabled, even raising the dead. Science can't even explain why the world is in such a state as it is today but the Bible clearly tells us why? The fall of man brought it all about but then why expect man to put it right when he cannot live at peace with his neighbours.
    Those thing's didn't happen though. There doesn't have to be a scientific explanation for them, because it didn't happen. Period. At all.

    The only thing science seems certain about is that this world is doomed and according to the Bible that is to be the case.
    The only thing science is certain about is doom? What a patently absurd notion.

    The one big mistake both believers and unbelievers make is that they think our being here is about us.
    That is the exact opposite of everything I have been saying this entire time. Do you seriously not read what I say at all?

    Maybe I'm a bit dim but I seem to remember someone on a youtube debate saying that black on black deaths account for much more than any police on black deaths.
    Do you just not read my posts before you reply? I literally went over this above. This is a separate issue, BLM is focused on POLICE BRUTALITY, not gang violence. There are other groups that focus on that issue, and I guarantee you many members of BLM are also invested in that as well. You need to realize you can say you care about something without that meaning you don't care about everything else you don't explicitly say. "Black lives matter" doesn't mean "white lives don't matter" it means "stop killing ing black people cops".

    Again another statistic states that these numbers are accounted for in mostly Democrat run areas. Black people mostly vote for Democrats so shouldn't their outbursts be against those whose votes have been ignored for so many years rather than against those that are suffering the rage we are now seeing?
    What does Democrat vs Republican have to do with police brutality? I don't understand why you're trying to make this about political parties when it's about wealth inequality and racial injustice.

    Being an advocate of science how do you get off trying to excuse killing a human baby when science says it is a human baby?
    Please respond to my question above about what happens to babies when they die.

    The mother had the right to not get pregnant in the first place but she has the right to have it killed now that she is pregnant.
    Okay, what about rape and incest then? Should she be forced to keep the baby in those cases as well? This is the equivalent of having a tape worm taken out of your body, not murdering a child. The fetus has no agency or sentience at that point.

    Not even the animals do that and we are supposed to be superior to them.
    Animals don't do what? Kill kids? Yeah, they do all the time.

    Here's an entire Wikipedia article on the concept of Zoological Infanticide

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanticide_(zoology)

    The Black-tailed prairie dog and the adorable Meerkat are two of the most vicious infanticides.

    Is kill, rape, steal and burn the only way forward? Is that what you're advocating?
    Go ahead and find where I said raping, burning, and stealing was the way forward? Please, I'll wait. You won't find it though, because I didn't say it. What I did say was that looting and burning is an understandable reaction in a society that values capital and profits over human life. This is not the same as advocating for mindless anarchy, rape, and murder and no reasonable person would read it as such.


    @Cope

    There is no police violence issue in the United Kingdom. Nor is there a problem with mass incarceration. What you say BLM "is about" has no relevance here.
    I'm not talking about the UK nor was this conversation specifically about it either, so this is irrelevant. The UK certainly has a racism issue though, and I believe that the BLM movements in other countries are out of solidarity rather than echoing the same sentiments in their own communities. Either way though, this discussion wasn't about BLM protests in other countries anyway.

    When a movement claiming an interest in black lives is "not about trying to solve" any of the leading causes of black deaths you shouldn't be shocked when people treat it as front for other objectives. The procession of corporate endorsements that BLM has received should be evidence enough of that.
    You are willfully ignorant to their goals and you cannot blame them for that. There are other movements and groups that attempt to address the issue of gang violence, but BLM is specifically founded to address the issue of police brutality and violence against minorities. You are intentionally misrepresenting what the movement stands for so you can attempt to discredit it.

    Who has claimed that murdering pro-life activists is agreeable? Or did you just introduce the idea to poison the well?
    No one? I don't understand how you read what I said as encouraging that or even remotely suggesting anyone DOES think that. He said there were no protests about abortion, and I linked him to a list of groups that protest abortion as well as a list of violent protests against abortion.

    I see your point: we should just legalize murder against Christ's elect. That would be choice.
    What the hell is "Christ's elect"?

    Are you lucid right now? I don't know why you even replied to me.

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  13. #193
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Akar,

    And there you have it, Dawkins was raised a Roman Catholic and you know what's unsurprising about that? Most of the antiGod people who post on these threads were Roman Catholic and so what they know about the Bible or God is almost zero. One would get more sense out of talking to the wall than talking with them, why? because having discussed the Scriptures over many years with Roman Catholics their answers to any questions about God or Jesus was always followed by, " Oh I'll have to ask my priest." They can't think for themselves and are not supposed to. The Bible is no more than the dead letter to them. Just so Dawkins.

  14. #194

    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    I'm not talking about the UK nor was this conversation specifically about it either, so this is irrelevant. The UK certainly has a racism issue though, and I believe that the BLM movements in other countries are out of solidarity rather than echoing the same sentiments in their own communities. Either way though, this discussion wasn't about BLM protests in other countries anyway.
    The tangent of the conversation I was commenting on related to basics' remarks about the "debauchery on our streets" (ie. British streets).

    You are willfully ignorant to their goals and you cannot blame them for that. There are other movements and groups that attempt to address the issue of gang violence, but BLM is specifically founded to address the issue of police brutality and violence against minorities. You are intentionally misrepresenting what the movement stands for so you can attempt to discredit it.
    A movement "specifically founded to address the issue of police brutality" which aims to "disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure", openly attacks Israel and whose co-founders describe themselves as "trained Marxists". Now why does that sound suspicious?

    No one? I don't understand how you read what I said as encouraging that or even remotely suggesting anyone DOES think that. He said there were no protests about abortion, and I linked him to a list of groups that protest abortion as well as a list of violent protests against abortion.
    So it would seem that your side is full of hypocrisy. You don't want people to kill babies so you.... kill adults? Okay?
    How could I possibly have have construed such comments as accusatory. We may never know.

    What the hell is "Christ's elect"?
    For someone who claims to have read the Bible, you don't seem very familiar with its terminology. The elect are those destined for salvation (ie. those who you think would be better off dead).

    Are you lucid right now? I don't know why you even replied to me.
    Someone has to wrench you out of that reddit hug-box.
    Last edited by Cope; July 02, 2020 at 09:52 AM.



  15. #195
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    Akar,

    And there you have it, Dawkins was raised a Roman Catholic and you know what's unsurprising about that? Most of the antiGod people who post on these threads were Roman Catholic and so what they know about the Bible or God is almost zero. One would get more sense out of talking to the wall than talking with them, why? because having discussed the Scriptures over many years with Roman Catholics their answers to any questions about God or Jesus was always followed by, " Oh I'll have to ask my priest." They can't think for themselves and are not supposed to. The Bible is no more than the dead letter to them. Just so Dawkins.
    Do you want to respond to anything I said beyond the third sentence, or are you too busy attacking people for believing differently from you?

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  16. #196

    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    Well, that's a fair assumption to make. Why would I assume a layman is correct over a scientists in their field?
    What is Dawkins' field?
    Dawkins has definitely read the bible as he was raised christian and went to catholic school. Just because someone doesn't believe as you do doesn't mean they are any less knowledgeable of the source material.
    What does Dawkins' having read the bible prove?
    I mean, you have read the bible, ummm... dozens of times, I think it was, yet have shown yourself to be profoundly ignorant of it.

    No one? I don't understand how you read what I said as encouraging that or even remotely suggesting anyone DOES think that. He said there were no protests about abortion, and I linked him to a list of groups that protest abortion as well as a list of violent protests against abortion.
    You should read what you actually wrote at that point.

  17. #197
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    What is Dawkins' field?
    Evolutionary Biology, Ethology, and Philosophy.

    What does Dawkins' having read the bible prove?
    Basics said that Dawkins "doesn't know god" and I responded by saying that he is knowledgeable of the scriptures and was raised in a christian household and community. Meaning that just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean they are inherently less informed.

    I mean, you have read the bible, ummm... dozens of times, I think it was, yet have shown yourself to be profoundly ignorant of it.
    Is that so?

    You should read what you actually wrote at that point.
    no u

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  18. #198

    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    Evolutionary Biology, Ethology, and Philosophy.
    So not biblical scholarship...
    Basics said that Dawkins "doesn't know god" and I responded by saying that he is knowledgeable of the scriptures and was raised in a christian household and community. Meaning that just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean they are inherently less informed.
    Meaning nothing.
    Is that so?
    Quite.
    no u
    I did. That is why I suggested you should read what you actually wrote at that point in your discussion.

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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    So not biblical scholarship...
    The idea that someone has to have a degree in the bible to properly understand it is ridiculous and the exact thing that reformation was about. I highly doubt basics has a degree in "biblical scholarship" either since he said before that he was an engineer. Dawkins does, however, have a Phd in philosophy which is pretty damn relevant when you're discussing morality and religion don't you think?

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  20. #200

    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    The idea that someone has to have a degree in the bible to properly understand it is ridiculous and the exact thing that reformation was about. I highly doubt basics has a degree in "biblical scholarship" either since he said before that he was an engineer. Dawkins does, however, have a Phd in philosophy which is pretty damn relevant when you're discussing morality and religion don't you think?
    You are the one touting "a scientists":
    "Why would I assume a layman is correct over a scientists in their field".
    And no.

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