Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

[mishkin]

is that person in the room with us right now, basics? (sorry I couldn't help it).

believe what you want and allude to faith when they ask for proof, but it is absurd of you to make fun of other religions that require as much mental gymnastics as yours.

[Sir Adrian]

Love thy neighbor more than you love yourself requires mental gymnastics.

[mishkin]

Love thy neighbor more than you love yourself...

said the man (?) born of a virgin* an a dove promising life after dead.

*one day someone explain to me why this was so important

[basics]

is that person in the room with us right now, basics? (sorry I couldn't help it).

believe what you want and allude to faith when they ask for proof, but it is absurd of you to make fun of other religions that require as much mental gymnastics as yours.

mishkin,

Yes, He is in the room right now no matter where that room is, why? Because nothing that exists does so but by Him, in Him and through Him. The ability to believe that is in His hands and His hands alone and the reason for that is that everything we know of, can see, can touch, can have knowledge of, is because He is God and we are here for His good pleasure. In other words we are here as part of His story, we being bitpart players in it. It is what is written in God's word to us, the Bible. Why understanding that Book comes down to what God the Holy Spirit makes one aware of otherwise it is said only the dead letter of Scripture is seen.

[mishkin]

something to say about making fun of other religions, basics?

[Sir Adrian]

said the man (?) born of a virgin* an a dove promising life after dead.

*one day someone explain to me why this was so important

And that's relevant, how? The message is all that matters. Even Jesus was just a regular man, he was so holy that he deserves to be worshiped and deserves any individual sacrifice you make in his name.

[Lord Thesaurian]

[mishkin]

And that's relevant, how? The message is all that matters. Even Jesus was just a regular man, he was so holy that he deserves to be worshiped and deserves any individual sacrifice you make in his name.

we were talking about the fantasies of religions. now if you tell me that jesus was just a man and that you respect his humanistic teachings leaving aside divine orders and lives beyond death, you will really leave me stunned.

[Sir Adrian]

The core of Christianity is love your neighbor more than you love yourself, hate sin, honor God in all things, abhor worldy things such as wealth and power. That's it. The rest if fluff to get the message across.

Either you accused this of being mental gymnastics, which it isn't, or you based your argument entirely on the fluff in which case you have no argument only a weak strawman.

[mishkin]

believing in god = mental gymnastics*

*assuming that the indoctrination does not completely cripple the mental faculties.

[basics]

something to say about making fun of other religions, basics?

mishkin,

Is being critical wrong? My Bible, the word of God, tells me to be critical especially when the Gospel is being mocked as you yourself are doing so it beholds me to contest any religion that does that. Now as for being born of a woman especially a virgin was the choice God made for His entry into the world as a man. I think we can see that she was untainted by the lusts of the flesh although still an inherent sinner making the Supernatural work of the Holy Spirit in keeping her Son to be free of sin. The affair was a union of God the Son with an egg of Mary overseen by the Holy Spirit represented by a Dove. As God there is nothing inconsistent in that at all.

[mishkin]

Now as for being born of a woman especially a virgin was the choice God made for His entry into the world as a man.

This is funny as hell. I'm imagining it. "How should I make my entry to the world? through a girl, obviously, duh".

Edit: I was in the shower thinking about how realism (a normal birth in a manger) and magic (the dove impregnating the girl, an angel announcing the good news...) are mixed in the story of the birth of jesus. Really magical realism had been there for centuries.

[Sir Adrian]

believing in god = mental gymnastics*

*assuming that the indoctrination does not completely cripple the mental faculties.

So you don't have an argument then, you wanted a cheap jab at Christians. Gotcha.

[mishkin]

if you don't have to make significant efforts to believe all the talk of religion (heavens, burning bushes, demons, immaculate conceptions, justification for the suffering of innocents...) you have been indoctrinated to sectarian levels, which I honestly don't believe.

[Sir Adrian]

Riddle me this mishkin, if the theory of evilution is true why is it still just a theory and not a law like gravity - which also started out as a theory but is now a law of physics. If God was not real you would think that after 200 years people would be able to prove evilution.

[mishkin]

anyone intersted should google hypothesis, thesis and scientific law.

(speechles regarding the "evilution" thing. seriously hope you are kidding).

[basics]

[QUOTE=mishkin;16113547]This is funny as hell. I'm imagining it. "How should I make my entry to the world? through a girl, obviously, duh".
Edit: I was in the shower thinking about how realism (a normal birth in a manger) and magic (the dove impregnating the girl, an angel announcing the good news...) are mixed in the story of the birth of jesus. Really magical realism had been there for centuries.

mishkin,

The reason God entered the world as a man by a woman is quite simple. The price for sin was blood and Mary supplied it to her baby so that it would be the lifegiving substance He would offer up as our substitute for our sin something that no man under sin could do. So, in keeping with the garden promise of One coming into the world to contend with Satan who like God is a Spirit Jesus Christ took on the form of a man Whose life was also in the blood, His blood being sinless. Her pregnancy was about a union of the Supernatural with the natural and once done her pregnancy was just as normal as any other woman's.

And so yes, there was great heavenly joy imparted to shepherds nearby as well as to men who lived many hundreds of miles away that they just had to make a journey to see and to worship this new Child they expected to be the King of the Jews. So much so, that when they enquired of Herod this knowledge sent shivers through that man's system that he set out to have Him killed and not wanting any mistakes being made every firstborn up to the age of two in that region were killed. Of course by that time Jesus, Mary and Joseph were safe in Egypt after being warned by an angel. What's the problem?

[mishkin]

What's the problem?

The "problem" (not a problem for me, really) is all the verbiage of your first paragraph talking about sins paid with blood, gardens etc, pure fantasy that, as I said, can only be accepted with great will (mental gymnastics) or severe indoctrination. enjoy your stories, but it's embarrassing if you laugh at the stories of other religions. you are all in the same boat.

[basics]

mishkin,

Well if what I have said and repeating what is written is only fantasy, can you explain where death comes from? Everything on this planet fights against it and loses. We humans are at constant war with death in all its shapes and sizes and yet we have not found a way out of it apart from the sacrifice Jesus Christ made for us. Now that may be fantasy to you but not for me because my conversion from your opinion to what I know now was my experience with God as well as understanding what is written by and for Him. I used to believe like you but now, there is not a shred of doubt that one day soon I will pass over from this life to the next. As strange as it may seem to you, you will also pass over yet to a different life from me and that is the sad part for it has nothing to do with severe indoctrination or mental gymnastics at all.

[mishkin]

basics, you still don't answer why you made fun of another religion saying they don't know the difference between fact and fiction. what you consider to be their fantasies are facts for them, just as what I consider your fantasies are facts for you. I suppose this boils down to the fact that you believe (like everyone who practices any religion) that you have been graced with the knowledge of authentic religion. How lucky are all religious people, all of them have been lucky enough to find the right religion.