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Thread: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

  1. #321
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    He's definitely watching. He seems like a watcher to me.

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  2. #322
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    wanderwegger,

    That's a good question that probably most have asked in their lives and I will try to answer it as honestly as possible. The story of our existence belongs to God. He brought us into existence for His good pleasure and we can see from Genesis our part and His part by the separating of the earth from the garden He placed in Eden. Next we see the fall of man into the hands of evil. Now at that very point He could have intervened to save Adam and Eve and totally destroy evil but He didn't why? Because if He had there would have been no more story to tell, no need for Jesus Christ the Saviour, in fact no us to debate such things. You wouldn't be around to believe in Darwin or not, in fact if you were in this world already non-sinful what would you do all day? Who could you blame for the behaviour of men and women who do such things to children? I mean if there is no God story and no Saviour to go with it, there wouldn't be you or the environment to even think about Darwinism. So yes, God does watch as the wickedness of man plays out on a sinful mankind that includes little children who are born into sin and who in their time may do the same awful things. The good news is however that God being the Potter has reserved for Himself certain men and women to be saved from destruction by the judgement that is coming when Jesus Christ returns.

  3. #323
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Doing some reading today:

    Psalm 46

    {To the chief Musician for the sons of Korah, A Song upon Alamoth.} God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.
    2Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea;
    3Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake with the swelling thereof. Selah.
    4There is a river, the streams whereof shall make glad the city of God, the holy place of the tabernacles of the most High.
    5God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved: God shall help her, and that right early.
    6The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.
    7The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah.
    8Come, behold the works of the LORD, what desolations he hath made in the earth.
    9He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; he breaketh the bow, and cutteth the spear in sunder; he burneth the chariot in the fire.
    10Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
    11The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah.

    Psalm 91


    1He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
    2I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.
    3Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.
    4He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.
    5Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;
    6Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
    7A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
    8Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
    9Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
    10There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
    11For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
    12They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.
    13Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet.
    14Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.
    15He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.
    16With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.

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  4. #324
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    It's called using your own arguments against you. If everything god does is morally correct, how can you account for all the indisputably awful things he's done?
    I believe you mean God, not god; those are actually two different concepts. And I addressed this same talking point on page 8; if you had an actual argument, I have no idea why you'd try to use your opponent's arguments against him instead of just presenting your own argument.
    Last edited by Prodromos; August 07, 2020 at 06:16 AM.
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  5. #325
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Because religious people like you and Basics are often incapable of seeing the opponents view point. I have made my own argument, repeatedly. For this entire thread and most of the other active ones in the EMM I've been presenting my own argument, but you and Basics don't listen or even read what I say. So it's easier to just tear down the arguments you make, rather than make my own, if you're simply too stubborn to even read or acknowledge someone else's opinion.

    I believe you mean God, not god; those are actually two different concepts.
    lol no

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  6. #326
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Akar,

    The problem you have is that your counter arguments do not tear down anything we have to say about what is written about God. You see we have a little knowledge of you and your mindset because we communicate with you and you us, but, when it comes to God you don't have what we have so your answers are always the same. He doesn't exist and yet we know personally that He does. Can you see the difference? Oh you can spend all your life pleading that case but will it change anything about what God is doing in this world even in this day? People who once thought as you did are being called out and converted by the Word every other day across this planet so if there isn't a God then what is happening to them? For us all we can do is tell of Jesus' Gospel but what we cannot do is convert anyone for that my friend is God's job. It is the Father Who draws men and women to Jesus and the Holy Spirit who breaks down the hardened heart to see His marvelous work on the cross bringing them to repentance thus allowing God to regenerate them with a new heart, all their sins gone forever by the blood of Christ. This is something that you have no personal knowledge of yet you insist on making all sorts of assumptions that are quite wrong, the best of which is that He doesn't exist so if He doesn't exist why are people of all kinds being converted to knowing Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour?

  7. #327
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    Because religious people like you and Basics are often incapable of seeing the opponents view point. I have made my own argument, repeatedly. For this entire thread and most of the other active ones in the EMM I've been presenting my own argument, but you and Basics don't listen or even read what I say. So it's easier to just tear down the arguments you make, rather than make my own, if you're simply too stubborn to even read or acknowledge someone else's opinion.
    I don't read every post on the forum, so it's possible I missed some of yours. But I just read through the last few pages of this thread and I only saw assertions, not arguments. You and others have repeatedly made the assertion that Christian groups or alleged practices are 'immoral', but you've yet to explain how you can square that with your stated belief that there is no objective morality, and that all moral judgments are essentially arbitrary.
    Last edited by Prodromos; August 08, 2020 at 10:29 AM.
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  8. #328
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    but you've yet to explain how you can square that with your stated belief that there is no objective morality, and that all moral judgments are essentially arbitrary.
    First, find where I stated that.


    @basics

    Your personal "experience" with god is absolutely irrelevant. I'm interested in facts and science, not "personal experience"

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  9. #329

    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    wanderwegger,

    That's a good question that probably most have asked in their lives and I will try to answer it as honestly as possible. The story of our existence belongs to God. He brought us into existence for His good pleasure and we can see from Genesis our part and His part by the separating of the earth from the garden He placed in Eden. Next we see the fall of man into the hands of evil. Now at that very point He could have intervened to save Adam and Eve and totally destroy evil but He didn't why? Because if He had there would have been no more story to tell, no need for Jesus Christ the Saviour, in fact no us to debate such things. You wouldn't be around to believe in Darwin or not, in fact if you were in this world already non-sinful what would you do all day? Who could you blame for the behaviour of men and women who do such things to children? I mean if there is no God story and no Saviour to go with it, there wouldn't be you or the environment to even think about Darwinism. So yes, God does watch as the wickedness of man plays out on a sinful mankind that includes little children who are born into sin and who in their time may do the same awful things. The good news is however that God being the Potter has reserved for Himself certain men and women to be saved from destruction by the judgement that is coming when Jesus Christ returns.
    Pretty sure the Bible says God is saving 1 million jews and maybe a few other people during the second coming. Unlikely any of us made that list.

  10. #330
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by wanderwegger View Post
    Pretty sure the Bible says God is saving 1 million jews and maybe a few other people during the second coming. Unlikely any of us made that list.
    wanderwegger,

    Then you're pretty sure wrong.

  11. #331

    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    wanderwegger,

    Then you're pretty sure wrong.

    My B. Its 144,000 Jews.


    • Revelation 7:38:

    ... saying: "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the servants of God on their foreheads."
    And I heard the number of the sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
    12,000 from the tribe of Judahwere sealed,
    12,000 from the tribe of Reuben,
    12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
    12,000 from the tribe of Asher,
    12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali,
    12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
    12,000 from the tribe of Simeon,
    12,000 from the tribe of Levi,
    12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
    12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun,
    12,000 from the tribe of Joseph,
    12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.[1]
    • Revelation 14:1:

    Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.[2]
    • Revelation 14:35:

    And they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creaturesand before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. For it is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless.[3]

  12. #332
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    First, find where I stated that.
    Here's one example:

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    Your own self-professed standards deny you an ability to give an objective accounting of what constitutes evil or good; if the universe is nothing more than random interactions between elements and science is the only source of truth, then your concept of "good" is both subjective and emotional.
    Yes, you're absolutely right on that point but I was approaching the topic from your viewpoint that it is not the case that the universe is nothing more than random interactions. So that's not exactly relevant here, since from a Christian perspective good and evil are absolutely objective not subjective as the bible clearly explains "right" and "wrong".
    god
    I have to tell you, though, as a rule I don't discuss religion with people who don't capitalize God's name. Nothing against you personally, it's just a heuristic I use to avoid wasting my time. I've found that if someone refuses to even follow the basic rules of the English language when discussing a particular topic, it's extremely unlikely that they're debating in good faith or are in the right emotional state for a productive discussion.

    I've complied with your request, so now it's your turn to comply with mine (to capitalize proper nouns). I don't think it's too demanding, honestly.
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  13. #333
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    I've complied with your request, so now it's your turn to comply with mine (to capitalize proper nouns). I don't think it's too demanding, honestly.
    ahahaha, no. This isn't a negotiation. I'll spell things however I please.

    I have to tell you, though, as a rule I don't discuss religion with people who don't capitalize God's name. Nothing against you personally, it's just a heuristic I use to avoid wasting my time. I've found that if someone refuses to even follow the basic rules of the English language when discussing a particular topic, it's extremely unlikely that they're debating in good faith or are in the right emotional state for a productive discussion.
    I'd say the exact same about someone who is unable to look past someone spelling god with a lowercase G.

    You're the one who has brought the discussion towards grammar. Are you debating in good faith?

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  14. #334
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Prodromos,

    Akar doesn't know God so really one can't expect him to show any reverence where the Almighty is concerned. It would be against his nature to do so. That he believes that there is no God why would he even want to discuss Him at all and yet he just can't stay away from doing so. Why is that? He doesn't know but we do.

  15. #335
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    As I've said repeatedly before, just because I don't believe in god doesn't mean I don't like arguing with people who do. Just because you forget or can't remember doesn't mean I haven't explained this all again and again.

    Once again you stoop to personal remarks when you're at a loss for anything else to say.

    It's quite telling.

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  16. #336

    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Basics

    Was the terror of realization upon learning from the biblical passages that Messiah isn’t coming back for you too overwhelming or was it your penchant for avoiding conversations where the Bible is quoted to prove your assertions fanciful even from the dogma you mistakenly think your statements properly represent?

  17. #337
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    wanderwegger,

    If what you are implying and its wrong but nonetheless what you are implying is that only 144,000 of each tribe will enter heaven and here's why? From the cross Jesus told a criminal that today he woiuld be with God in heaven. Was that man a Jew? What about Abel, Enoch, and all the others who were not Jews then and yet they were declared righteous before God. What about the Centurian and his family who believed Jesus. Why even Abraham was not a Jew when God chose him to be the Father of a nation not yet in existence. Was Noah and his family Jewish when chosen to be saved, to carry the word into the new world after the flood? So, it is obvious that these Jews who have been marked by God are Jews living at the time of Jesus' return to gather in His church. These are Jews spread all across the globe not just Israel and they are victims of the persecution as are any Christians alive at the time. In trying to open a prophecy you obviously like many others get it all wrong but then I expect it of you.

  18. #338
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Soooo, the bible is wrong then?

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  19. #339

    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    wanderwegger,

    If what you are implying and its wrong but nonetheless what you are implying is that only 144,000 of each tribe will enter heaven and here's why? From the cross Jesus told a criminal that today he woiuld be with God in heaven. Was that man a Jew? What about Abel, Enoch, and all the others who were not Jews then and yet they were declared righteous before God. What about the Centurian and his family who believed Jesus. Why even Abraham was not a Jew when God chose him to be the Father of a nation not yet in existence. Was Noah and his family Jewish when chosen to be saved, to carry the word into the new world after the flood? So, it is obvious that these Jews who have been marked by God are Jews living at the time of Jesus' return to gather in His church. These are Jews spread all across the globe not just Israel and they are victims of the persecution as are any Christians alive at the time. In trying to open a prophecy you obviously like many others get it all wrong but then I expect it of you.
    As far as we know the thief was a jew yes. Jesus did not tell the thief he would be with god in heaven, he told him thou shalt be with me in paradise. Which to an apocalyptic resurrectionist anti roman jewish religious dissident of the time (there were a lot of them and this is when the Romans were on top of paperwork which survived to the present day in many sources so we know much about them) almost certainly did not mean what you think.

    Does it bother you I know the Bible far better than you do? My secret is I read it if you are interested. That and Divinity school in the NE US.

    For what's it worth my post and the bible clearly states its 12,000 per tribe. How one missed that only makes sense when one considers some people are clearly unable to read the Bible, maybe it is a divine punishment for sins, god is unknowable so can't be answered.

  20. #340
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    ahahaha, no. This isn't a negotiation. I'll spell things however I please.

    I'd say the exact same about someone who is unable to look past someone spelling god with a lowercase G.

    You're the one who has brought the discussion towards grammar. Are you debating in good faith?
    It doesn't bother or offend me when atheists refuse to capitalize the names of God, the Bible or Christianity. But this habit obviously screams out contempt for both the subject of the discussion and, to a lesser extent, the person they're debating with. It shows that they're not coming into the discussion with an open mind or a neutral, objective outlook; their mind is already made up and they're engaging in debate for purely eristic purposes. So while atheists of course have a right to behave like this, they can't really complain when other people think it's a waste of time to debate with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    Prodromos,

    Akar doesn't know God so really one can't expect him to show any reverence where the Almighty is concerned. It would be against his nature to do so. That he believes that there is no God why would he even want to discuss Him at all and yet he just can't stay away from doing so. Why is that? He doesn't know but we do.
    Yeah, it's strange, but I think a lot of atheists spend more time thinking about God than most nominal Christians do. Maybe they're not trying to convince us that God isn't real; maybe they're trying to convince themselves.
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