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Thread: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

  1. #141
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Two cool videos



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  2. #142
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Vitalis of Gaza

    A 7th-century hermit, Vitalis lived in the desert until he was 60, when he moved to Alexandria to work as a day laborer, earning only enough money to hire a different prostitute each night.

    The Christians of Alexandria were appalled by this behavior, and denounced him to the patriarch (archbishop) of Alexandria. However often they complained, though, the patriarch insisted that they mind their own business. Unable to stop Vitalis themselves, they could do nothing but treat him with disgust.

    One time, emerging from a brothel, the monk encountered a young man going there -- a prodigal fellow, who with an insult struck him on the cheek and cried out, that the monk was a disgrace to the Name of Christ. A little while afterwards, Vitalis went back to his small cell and in it at night he died.

    When the youth finally came to his senses after several hours, he rushed off to the cell of the monk, calling out: “Have mercy on me, O servant of God, for I have sinned against thee.” Then the youth knocked on the door of the cell, but he received no answer. When he broke in the door, he saw that the monk was dead. In his hand was a scroll with the words: “Men of Alexandria, judge not beforehand, til cometh the Lord, the Righteous Judge.” (1 Corinthians 4:5)

    At his funeral, dozens--perhaps hundreds--of reformed prostitutes wept. Each testified that she owed her soul to Vitalis, who had come to her room, handed her all the money he had, and said, "Here is your money. I want to buy you one night without sin."

    "Why are you doing this?" they would ask.

    "Because you are loved. You are worth more than what you have done or what has been done to you. Because Jesus died to save you and set you free from sin. Because he delights in you."

    He would teach her about her dignity and value as a woman and that she did not deserve to be used by men as an object of their lust. He would then pray with her and for her, read Scripture to her, offer to arrange a marriage or find a monastery for her and earn her a dowry.

    The only thing he asked was that they keep quiet about what he had done. If his good deeds had been known, after all, he would have been barred entry to the women he wanted to serve.

    So he submitted to ignominy, willingly offering his reputation for the sake of their souls.
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  3. #143
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    The Apostles Peter and John heal a lame man

    Acts 3

    1 One afternoon Peter and John were going up to the temple at the hour of prayer, the ninth hour. 2 And a man who was lame from birth was being carried to the temple gate called Beautiful, where he was put every day to beg from those entering the temple courts. 3 When he saw Peter and John about to enter, he asked them for money.

    4 Peter looked directly at him, as did John. “Look at us!” said Peter. 5 So the man gave them his attention, expecting to receive something from them. 6 But Peter said, “Silver or gold I do not have, but what I have I give you: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, get up and walk!”

    7 Taking him by the right hand, Peter helped him up, and at once the man’s feet and ankles were made strong. 8 He sprang to his feet and began to walk. Then he went with them into the temple courts, walking and leaping and praising God.

    9 When all the people saw him walking and praising God, 10 they recognized him as the man who used to sit begging at the Beautiful Gate of the temple, and they were filled with wonder and amazement at what had happened to him.


    A historian reported that the theologian Thomas Aquinas once visited the Pope at his palace in Rome.

    Entering the presence of the Pope, before whom a large sum of money was spread out, the Pope observed, “You see, Thomas, the Church is no longer in an age in which she can say, ‘Silver and gold have I none.’”

    “True, holy father,” replied Aquinas; “neither can she any longer say to the lame, ‘Rise up and walk.’”
    Last edited by Prodromos; May 26, 2020 at 06:56 PM.
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  4. #144
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Cool video


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  5. #145
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Setting aside the cartoon-villain caricature of religious people that Maher presents in that video, I don't understand why people who believe morality is relative think their moral judgments about religion mean anything.
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  6. #146
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    You have to appeal to people who only care about moral arguments somehow. If someone doesn't care about science and refuses to even acknowledge scientific evidence at all, what else can you do but stoop down to their level or completely ignore them?

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  7. #147
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    It's a poor and self-refuting argument. If there are no non-arbitrary moral judgements, it's incoherent to oppose religion on the ground that it's immoral. If Maher's only way of appealing to people is by making arguments that he knows to be false, that's not exactly a ringing endorsement of his beliefs. If he has better arguments, let's hear them.
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  8. #148
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

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  9. #149
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Hi guys,

    A new round of PoTF is up. Please remember to vote/nominate:

    https://www.twcenter.net/forums/foru...ht-Competition

  10. #150
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.





    Review - Tom Holland "Dominion: The Making of the Western Mind" - History for Atheists

    Tom Holland is an unbeliever and also someone who was raised a Christian. And he too is someone who abandoned that belief early in life: he blames a fascination with dinosaurs – a gateway drug for many a budding young historian and religious sceptic. But in his latest book he turns his attention to Christianity’s impact on western thinking and to what will be, to many, an uncomfortable thesis. He argues that most of the things that we consider to be intrinsic and instinctive human values are actually nothing of the sort; they are primarily and fundamentally the product of Christianity and would not exist without the last 2000 years of Christian dominance on our culture. ...

    Today, the idea that we should care for others, help the weak, give to assist the needy and feel sorrow at the afflictions of the vulnerable and exploited is thought to be normal and obvious. TV ads for charities and aid organisations do not have to argue all humans have a right to dignity by merit of being human, they simply assume we all understand this. So it is difficult for us to imagine how radical it was for people like Gregory and Macrina or the others Holland highlights in this part of his book (Martin of Tours, Paulinus of Nola) to help the helpless purely because they recognised the paradox of a divine Christ as a suffering human being in these fellow humans. Rich people had done good works before. Ancient nobles were expected to endow great public buildings, hold games, races and gladiatorial shows, give free grain and bread to the populace of their city or support centres of learning or healing. But this was because that was seen as reflecting their dignitas and to *their* glory and esteem. It was not because they saw the people these acts assisted as their equals, equally reflecting the divine and so intrinsically worthy of equal dignity. That idea would have been alien, bizarre and even repellant. The fact that it is familiar, normal and attractive to us shows, as Holland argues, that we are like fish swimming in essentially Christian water. We barely even notice we are doing it.
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  11. #151
    Abdülmecid I's Avatar ¡Ay Carmela!
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Not sure about the value of Holland's Dominion book, but the cited examples are very unfortunate. Polygamy was not at all widespread in the Antiquity and, in the rare cases it was reported, it was limited to the ruling dynasties (not the Roman ones, though). It was a purely political measure, adopted by monarchs, whose throne relied on foreign alliances and the approval of the local aristocracy, so moral views about marriage, women and sex were largely irrelevant. The argument about infanticide is even more bogus, while the reference to Sparta is rather absurd, since that practice had already stopped being enforced (if it ever was, at least on a widespread scale) for several centuries. Fun fact: Sparta's most celebrated king, Agesilaus II, was lame from birth, but fortunately for Xenophon, nobody thought of disposing of the royal baby. Indirect infanticide was and still is, despite our impeccable Christian principles, the result of poverty and inability to feed our offspring in a satisfying manner. Polybius, in fact, quite a few decades before Joseph was conceived, presents the abandonment of newborns, in a very critical manner, as the tragic consequence of the impoverishment of mainland Greece.

    The final paragraph about charity is also very misleading, as the author analyses the ''pagan'' and ''Christian'' motivation, based on double standards. On the one hand, he claims that pagans contributed to the society for selfish reasons, a very reasonable hypothesis, not however explicitly mentioned by the epigraphical testimony, and on the other hand, he takes the ''official'' interpretation as a Gospel. The irony is that the inscriptions confirm (based on a careful study of onomastics) that wealthy Christians copied the behaviour of their pagan colleagues, although, in the end, the rise of Christianity coincides with a decline of public infrastructure, because the urban elites were more reluctant to spend their money for the public good (to clarify, I doubt that the two trends are related to each other).

    Don't get me wrong, I also dislike the way some hard-line atheists condemn Christianity as the root of all evils, but the aforementioned revisionism commits the same sin, only with paganism as its victim. Tom Holland would have probably been less disgusted at the cruelty of the ancients, if he recognized dramatic hyperbole and the fact that these egregious affairs are mentioned, precisely because the goal of the author is to derogate someone (usually, filthy barbarians), whom he views as the complete opposite to his personal values. Generally speaking, the notion that Stoicism, Christianity or Aristotelian philosophy are the most determining factor of human behaviour is rather naive. It's always interesting to read how the Three Holy Hierarchs are desperately trying to convince their otherwise very pious flock not to visit the bloody amphitheaters, but to no avail. Gladiators eventually lost the war, but due to causes irrelevant to Christian bishops, who after all didn't greatly appreciate their successors, miming and Chariot racing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    Cool video.
    He grossly overestimates the importance of religion in modern conflicts, as he fails to recognize that religious principles are usually used as convenient pretexts, in order to solidify the public approval of your otherwise controversial overseas endeavours. Bush Jr. may have boasted about his direct contact with the Almighty, but I doubt he invaded Iraq, because he tried to imitate the Crusades.

  12. #152

    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    I dare to say that most Christian rulers and popes until ~17th century would have a good laugh over ideas like "equality" or "intrinsic human rights". That is, until they tied Tom Holland to a stake and lit the match.

  13. #153
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Even the indissolubility of marriage is no originally christian concept.

    Already the "pagan" romans know a indissoluable form of marriage called confarreatio.

    The confarreatio was a religious ceremony in front of the flamen dialis or the pontifex maximus, which was originally indissoluable, but in later times possible with a special sacrifice ("diffareatio"), but as the diffareatio was very complicated it was very rare.

    But i ascend now from the deeps of Dungeons and Dragons again, as discussions about history through the rose tinted glasses of religious belief are point- and fruitless.
    Normal is an illusion. What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly. (Morticia Addams)


  14. #154
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Holland's thesis isn't that all Western morals are Christian inventions nor that all medieval kings and popes followed Christian morality perfectly.

    @Abdulmecid: Ancient Greek history isn't my forte, but as Holland is a renowned author and historian, I trust that his book contains a more thorough elaboration of his thesis than the two or three quotes I posted. I haven't read the book myself so I'll refrain from opining too much on it.
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  15. #155
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    Default black lives matter

    Do black lives matter? I think it is pretty obvious that they do matter just as much as any other life matters but what makes me angry is the sheer hypocracy behind this latest outburst of violence when one considers all the little black babies who are torn limb from limb in the act of abortion perhaps even by some who are shouting the most in the protests we witness. Where is their voice if black lives really matter? Do we see black, white, yellow or tanned skinned protestors on the streets not for one person but for the thousands of little black, white, yellow or tanned skinned babies killed every day of the week so that they never see the light of day? Do these babies not deserve the same justice, if it's really justice these protests are supposedly about? Or, is it something more sinister that is behind the violence and carnage we are having to witness? Thoughts?

    -Thread merged, as it lacks any sufficient basis for discussion. ~Abdülmecid I
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; June 08, 2020 at 04:57 AM. Reason: Clarification added.

  16. #156

    Default Re: black lives matter

    My thoughts are that you're shamelessly trying to push your religious agenda using unrelated, tragic events.

  17. #157
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    Default Re: black lives matter

    Quote Originally Posted by Sar1n View Post
    My thoughts are that you're shamelessly trying to push your religious agenda using unrelated, tragic events.
    Sar1n,

    Is it really shameless to talk about the taking of human life? Is it really religious to say that life begins at conception or just a biological fact? Abortion is the killing of a human being whether you like it or not no matter who performs it. For example if someone stuck a needle into your mother or sister's womb when pregnant and killed her baby that would be murder yet not if a person in white apparel does it. Why is that? Where are the voices, protests and burnings when it comes to that? One doesn't have to be religious to understand basic biology or the rule of law to know a human being begins life at conception. Your response shows no desire for the truth rather a desire to get at something you hate in this case it being me. The protests that we see are just another way of Trump haters, or Tory haters in this country, to damage them because they didn't win an election which happens to be our domocratic means of settling any issue, not violence.

  18. #158
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Nixon has some interesting thoughts on the meaning of life

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  19. #159
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    Classic

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  20. #160
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    Default Re: Friday/Saturday/Sunday morning preaching.

    The First Adam's rebellion vs the Last Adam's obedience







    Romans 5

    6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. ...

    18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

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