Defecting Chinese spy offers information trove to Australian government

[z3n]

Apparently this is the first ever Chinese spy to defect to another country.

Wang “William” Liqiang is the first Chinese operative to ever blow his cover. He has revealed the identities of China’s senior military intelligence officers in Hong Kong, as well as providing details of how they fund and conduct political interference operations in Hong Kong, Taiwan and Australia.

Some interesting nuggets of information he's revealed

Exhibit a)

Among his key revelations, Mr Wang said he had met the head of a deep-cover spy ring operating with impunity in Australia.

Exhibit b)

ASIO has repeatedly warned that the current threat of foreign interference is “unprecedented” and that the number of foreign intelligence officers currently operating in Australia is higher than it was during the Cold War. ASIO has never publicly named China as a primary source of its concerns, as the government grapples with how to balance public awareness with the risk of diplomatic and economic retaliation.

Exhibit c)

Mr Wang said he was responsible for coordinating a “cyber army” to shift political opinion, similar to Russia’s cyber interference operations in the US elections.

Exhibits a, b and c all make me wonder why countries don't treat China with the same level of distrust and antagonism as Russia.

If anyone is worse than Russia, it would be China. Sadly the two of them are even starting to work together, so the question is, what will western countries do about it. Obviously China is becoming a larger threat than Russia ever was and it could end up affecting our societies in ways that either lead to a new world war or cold war or collapsing them all together.


What do you think western countries should do about it?


https://www.theage.com.au/national/d...22-p53d1l.html

[Niles Crane]

I can't wait for the next story where he turns up dead in Lake Burley Griffin.

[Exarch]

Apparently this is the first ever Chinese spy to defect to another country.

Yeah, no.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chen_Yonglin

Exhibits a, b and c all make me wonder why countries don't treat China with the same level of distrust and antagonism as Russia.

If anyone is worse than Russia, it would be China. Sadly the two of them are even starting to work together, so the question is, what will western countries do about it. Obviously China is becoming a larger threat than Russia ever was and it could end up affecting our societies in ways that either lead to a new world war or cold war or collapsing them all together.


What do you think western countries should do about it?


https://www.theage.com.au/national/d...22-p53d1l.html

Too late for that.

Australia has bent the knee to RCEP and even white american companies are willing to tow the Chinese line for that sweet Chinese money.

Secondly, Chinese growth is set to continue record levels of growth whilst the US under the white supremacists is set for recession. Naturally, a race war would distract the riotous population from revolution.

EDIT: Incidentally, isn't it funny how this spy story came out only a few days after former Australian PM Keating lambasted the intelligence agencies and the australian press for fomenting a race war against China?
You can read it here:
https://www.theguardian.com/australi...china-rhetoric

Gotta keep that race war/"whole of civilisation" war burning, else wise Bannon can't feel like a big man and loser white americans can't feel like their lives have purpose without a race war against Chinese people.

[Finlander]

What do you think western countries should do about it?

I don’t think that there could be much more than a better cyber security defense in each country, that is because any of the attempts to point and shame could easily be seen hypocritical if the blaming side are involved in the same political inference operations themselves. Much can be said about China monitoring its population both inside and outside of the Mainland, but then again the United States that should be the stellar example of liberty has hands full of dirt themselves. I doubt that the West also doesn't have just the same cyber armies working on operations in foreign countries, too.


Mostly I am worried that the development of Western democracies is at risk now that the undemocratic political ideologies such as Sharia, totalitarian Russia and one party systems like the PRC are gaining increasingly more influence in the world. For that I also believe that the strength comes within the country, making the institutions that allow the democratic development in each region secure.

Interesting topic, thank you for making the thread about it!

[Coughdrop addict]

What do you think western countries should do about it?

-First and foremost we must remember that while Putin/Xi is in power any offers of friendship, aid, or cooperation on anything from Russia/China are insincere and a plot to weaken us at best, and a first step towards world domination and our total destruction at worst.

-Cybersecurity must be our number one priority.

-We should also support any resistance groups or popular uprisings in Russia/China politically, financially, and if at all possible militarily.

[Finlander]

-First and foremost we must remember that while Putin/Xi is in power any offers of friendship, aid, or cooperation on anything from Russia/China are insincere and a plot to weaken us at best, and a first step towards world domination and our total destruction at worst.

-Cybersecurity must be our number one priority.

-We should also support any resistance groups or popular uprisings in Russia/China politically, financially, and if at all possible militarily.

I must disagree with this, especially regarding China. In the past years, the PRC have been following the One Road, One Belt strategy which means that the Chinese government is investing heavily into the development of neighboring economies. This has lead the American officials to think whether this is an attempt of spreading the Chinese influence over the world or genuinely helping the economy of the targeted area. I believe that the consensus especially in European Union has been that the Chinese investments are beneficial to to the EU, China and the target area. Therefore, I would say that the aid coming from the PRC, such as the over 100 billion dollar investment to the infrastructure of Pakistan, is not an attempt to destroy the West. It is quite similar to the Marshal Aid given by the US after the Second World War.

Secondly, I believe that attempts to influence the political stability of the said countries will backfire badly and will only worsen the foreign relations, make the life of targeted population risky and escalate the foreign affairs. At the moment, I believe what the Xi administration is trying to do is to establish more support for the party and to boost the economic development of the country to meet the annual 8% growth target. I don't think that the world domination is the overall goal for the administration, the survival of the party and united China is. That is why China is seeing the new wave of nationalism, it is a self protecting mechanism from the negative influence from the West. The current Trade War with the US is only going to worsen this.

[Aexodus]

It’s very worrying when China seems to have influence in Australian universities (90% of Australian foreign students are chinese), politics, and media. It’s probably doing the same in other Western countries.

https://theconversation.com/amp/insi...stralia-119174
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/09/23/o...hnk/index.html
https://www.ft.com/content/52ed7fe6-...4-3669401ba76f
https://amp.theage.com.au/national/v...22-p53d3p.html
https://www.smh.com.au/national/chin...10-gpg0s3.html
https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/austr...ions-influence

[Heathen Hammer]

Apparently a lot of Western leftist groups and academia have ties to Chinese intelligence. Same goes for some mainstream media outlets (which is quite clear just by looking at how they cheered jihadist insurrection in Syria and Libya as "spring", but are much more tame in regards to protests in Hong-Kong).
The rabbit hole is definitely more deep then it appears.

[Exarch]

The "spy" is actually a fugitive, wanted for fraud; looks like the FVEYEs intelligence agencies got desperate and grabbed a Chinese fugitive to act as their puppet for some sort of plea deal:

Rough translation:

Sydney xx newspaper article stated that Liqiang Wang fled to Australia for asylum after spying for Chinese govt in HK and TW. Xxx passport number xxxx and HK permanent resident id number xxxx.By investigation, Liqiang Wang is 26 yrs old, from Nanping, Fujian, is at large after committing a crime. He was sentenced by Guangzhou County court to serve 15 months in prison with an 18 months suspension due to a fraud in October 2016. Liqiang made up a case of importing vehicles in February 2019 with 4.6 million rmb illegal gain. Jingan police station of Shanghai municipal police started the investigation in April 2019.
Both of his passport and HK permanent resident id are fake.
Jingan district police Shanghai municipal police 11/23/2019

In fact, you can actually look this up yourself; China's actually very transparent about its court proceedings:
http://wenshu.court.gov.cn/website/w...2CH/index.html

[Sar1n]

The "spy" is actually a fugitive, wanted for fraud; looks like the FVEYEs intelligence agencies got desperate and grabbed a Chinese fugitive to act as their puppet for some sort of plea deal:

Rough translation:


In fact, you can actually look this up yourself; China's actually very transparent about its court proceedings:
http://wenshu.court.gov.cn/website/w...2CH/index.html

I'll be honest with you. Chinese government sources are less credible than a divination from scattered tea leaves. I remember the time when they tried to use the Olympic games to perpetuate myths that some inventions were actually theirs (the so-called new four great inventions).

[Exarch]

I'll be honest with you. Chinese government sources are less credible than a divination from scattered tea leaves. I remember the time when they tried to use the Olympic games to perpetuate myths that some inventions were actually theirs (the so-called new four great inventions).

lolwhut?!
The Four Great Inventions of China are accepted by worldwide academia, especially white anglo academia, as having been incepted by the Chinese civilisation; hell, the wannabe Chinese civilisation people like the white anglo supremacists are especially ornery knowing that they can never match Chinese civilisation in grandeur and prestige.

@topic
Let us suppose this "Chinese spy" really is a spy.

In what universe is a 20-something year old operative allowed this level of access and information?

It's actually more plausible that the FVEYEs needed to keep the sinophobic race war against China ongoing since more and more Anglo FVEYEs nations are allowing Huawei and Chinese firms into their markets at the expense of Apple, Cisco etc. Boris Johnson's UK will allow Huawei into the UK as will Jacinda Arden's NZ. Canada is merely moments away from letting Huawei build 5G and freeing Meng.

[Sar1n]

lolwhut?!
The Four Great Inventions of China are accepted by worldwide academia, especially white anglo academia, as having been incepted by the Chinese civilisation; hell, the wannabe Chinese civilisation people like the white anglo supremacists are especially ornery knowing that they can never match Chinese civilisation in grandeur and prestige.

I was talking about the, in case you missed it, what Chinese media called NEW four great inventions. High speed rail, bike sharing, electronic payments and online shopping. Neither originated in China. But that did not stop the propaganda.

And on topic. Specialists in electronic espionage are commonly in their 20's, because they grew up in this electronic age and are accustomed to its quirks.

[Swiss Army Cheese]

Great now even China's spies are defective. Can't we have any non-defecting spies devolve information to the Australian government?

[Exarch]

I was talking about the, in case you missed it, what Chinese media called NEW four great inventions. High speed rail, bike sharing, electronic payments and online shopping. Neither originated in China. But that did not stop the propaganda.

Proof?

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

You know what the Chinese did invent but the Anglo Americans are trying to steal? 5G tech. Verizon got ornery over having to pay Huawei for 5G patents so they got their boy Marco Rubio to try to invalidate all the 5G patents.
Not that i mind, the minute the USG invalidates Huawei's 5G tech is when all of Boeing, Apple, Cisco patents become up for grabs in China- the world's largest and most important market.

And on topic. Specialists in electronic espionage are commonly in their 20's, because they grew up in this electronic age and are accustomed to its quirks.

Ah yes, all them young whippersnappers know all about computers and such, like the hacker 4Chan. That is some boomer logic right there.

@topic
It's a common practice for Chinese would be immigrants to use the 'China persecution' line to expedite their passage to a green card and maybe even some gibs. Bonus points if they convert to christianity or claim to be falun dafa.
Downside is that they can never return home as easily.

[Sar1n]

Proof?

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Let's take a look what Wikipedia says, because it's closest to non-biased source we can get.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail
The very definition is problematic, but first definitive high speed rail dates to 1964, Japan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle-sharing_system
The idea first appeared in American sci-fi novel, first working system 1995, England.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_currency#History
Idea dates to 1983, US, first systems also in US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-commerce
Interesting read. I didn't even know that one of the uses of ARPANET was to sell weed.

Ah yes, all them young whippersnappers know all about computers and such, like the hacker 4Chan. That is some boomer logic right there.

Ah, yes, ad hominems. That's a loser's argument right there. Newsflash, I'm not from US, and I'm way younger than that.
Naturally, we cannot expect an answer from any intelligence agency about the age of their agents, so let's take a look at ages of people active in the area. Like, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael...%B1ez_(hacker), arrested at age 22 for his electronic activities.

@topic
It's a common practice for Chinese would be immigrants to use the 'China persecution' line to expedite their passage to a green card and maybe even some gibs. Bonus points if they convert to christianity or claim to be falun dafa.
Downside is that they can never return home as easily.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Now it's time for you to man up and show that these people lie and abuse the system.

[Sar1n]

I must disagree with this, especially regarding China. In the past years, the PRC have been following the One Road, One Belt strategy which means that the Chinese government is investing heavily into the development of neighboring economies. This has lead the American officials to think whether this is an attempt of spreading the Chinese influence over the world or genuinely helping the economy of the targeted area. I believe that the consensus especially in European Union has been that the Chinese investments are beneficial to to the EU, China and the target area. Therefore, I would say that the aid coming from the PRC, such as the over 100 billion dollar investment to the infrastructure of Pakistan, is not an attempt to destroy the West. It is quite similar to the Marshal Aid given by the US after the Second World War.

Secondly, I believe that attempts to influence the political stability of the said countries will backfire badly and will only worsen the foreign relations, make the life of targeted population risky and escalate the foreign affairs. At the moment, I believe what the Xi administration is trying to do is to establish more support for the party and to boost the economic development of the country to meet the annual 8% growth target. I don't think that the world domination is the overall goal for the administration, the survival of the party and united China is. That is why China is seeing the new wave of nationalism, it is a self protecting mechanism from the negative influence from the West. The current Trade War with the US is only going to worsen this.

Sorry for doubleposting, but Chinese influence is anything but benign.

I've just came upon this article that shows how China attempt to politically influence countries through its economic ties. AS resident of country in question I can confirm the veracity of the article.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/23/w...ue-taiwan.html

[Lord Thesaurian]

Sorry for doubleposting, but Chinese influence is anything but benign.

I've just came upon this article that shows how China attempt to politically influence countries through its economic ties. AS resident of country in question I can confirm the veracity of the article.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/23/w...ue-taiwan.html

This, combined with what we know about the Politburo’s strategy in the Pacific, doesn’t bode well for a world where the US is asleep at the wheel and busy eating itself politically and socially.

The problem is not that China’s lending
is overly skewed towards countries
already at risk of debt problems.
Rather, it is the sheer scale of lending,
combined with inadequate controls to
avoid potentially unsustainable loans.

China also has a role to play. Ultimately, China cannot remain a major player in the region through its current model of cheap loans without eventually fulfilling the debt trap accusations of its critics.
To avoid this, China will need to substantially restructure its approach – in particular by adopting clear sustainable lending rules and, ultimately, focusing far more on grant aid rather than loans.

https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-in...-trap-question

Whereas the Japanese sought to occupy the Pacific, the Politburo is trying to buy it first, thus avoiding the trip wires established by the post-WW2 order. Holding the carrot of Chinese market access in front of western corporations ensures the silence and acquiescence of western governments, as we’ve seen. Much of the Politburo’s domestic and foreign policy is actually trying to copy and fast-forward the historical US trajectory, sans the political and social freedoms that inevitably derail authoritarian central planning. It’s quite brilliant if you’re a Han Chinese ranking member of the CCP and thus get a cut of the spoils; for everyone else, not so much. As for where this all leads, one need only look at HK to see what happens when the balance of power shifts decisively in favor of the PRC.

[Cyclops]

It’s very worrying when China seems to have influence in Australian universities (90% of Australian foreign students are chinese), politics, and media.

Its about 40% PRC nationals, and maybe another 5 % from expat Chinese communities (Singapore Malaysia etc) and Taiwan. That said Chinese ethnicity students are the overwhelmingly largest proportion of overseas students studying ehre, ahead of the sub-continent (India, Pakistan, loads of Nepalese for some reason) who make up about 25-30%.

It’s probably doing the same in other Western countries.

https://theconversation.com/amp/insi...stralia-119174
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/09/23/o...hnk/index.html
https://www.ft.com/content/52ed7fe6-...4-3669401ba76f
https://amp.theage.com.au/national/v...22-p53d3p.html
https://www.smh.com.au/national/chin...10-gpg0s3.html
https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/austr...ions-influence

Absolutely, they'd be silly not to.

China is exerting diplomatic and other soft power muscle in its perceived resource base. They consume about 40% of our export iron and coal, and we supply about 60% of there iron (next biggest supplier is Brazil with about 20%, with longer supply lines). China is also expanding into Africa and the Pacific, but these are less developed regions with lower security of supply.

The Chinese student population and the long established Australian Chinese community are easy routes to exert influence in Australia. While we have a strong political and military alliance with the US (we selected them as overlords in 1942, sorry Britain) the economic links have been only moderate until Jeff Bezos took over retail (thanks Obama).

Considering Chinese and Australian prosperity are so tightly interwoven its no surprise they are trying to exert some political influence on my country.

The US is yet to flex its muscle here and tell us to cut supply. It will be an interesting strategic moment if they do, as the US is waaaaay to powerful for any country to defy and remain prosperous.

[dogukan]

The question of China is a major systemic problem.
Global sustainable economic growth (including in the west) is heavily reliant on deepening economic ties with China, and China uses the moment to grow within without being absorbed into the global system. Especially a commodity exporter like Australia owes a lot of its wealth to Chinese demand, and now also Chinese markets for their entrepreneurs.

US has finally taken action with the recent trade war to curb the Chinese growth and discipline their motives before it is too late.
IMO opinion this will be an ideological war. The Chinese growth has to be curbed until Chinese population(newer generations) become more and more democratic to force the country to reform.
On the other hand, if China continued its easy access to global markets and growth at this rate, it will have more and more time to consolidate its statist-totalitarian format as a global alternative to a crumbling democracy and liberalism.

There is some strong game theory material here.

[Finlander]

Sorry for doubleposting, but Chinese influence is anything but benign.

I've just came upon this article that shows how China attempt to politically influence countries through its economic ties. AS resident of country in question I can confirm the veracity of the article.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/23/w...ue-taiwan.html

Sadly I couldn't open the article there, I would be interested in reading it though! If you have time, maybe you could give a short synopsis of the article. I'd be happy for it.