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Thread: Kimmerian Bosporus Campaign

  1. #1
    Decanus
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    Default Kimmerian Bosporus Campaign

    Okay, which one of you freaking psychopaths designed the Bosporan campaign start position?!?!?

    1) My main army starts near the nomad settlement along the Don River. Is this the intended expansion direction? NO! Because the settlement is poor and even if you bring an entire army to garrison it, you're still in the red, meaning you take extra attrition from civil unrest once you conquer it. So now you're literally trapped in a terrible place, you're still going in dept, and there's nothing you can do.

    2) Okay, plan B is go for Chersonessos to the west. However, there are two wandering armies in that region, plus the garrison. So you have to beat them and lay siege. But guess what happens - 8 MILLION Scythian horse archers appear to ruin your day. And horse archers in this game are an absolute nightmare that basically are immune to arrows, yet carry AK-47s with sniper scopes. Everything you own is now dead.

    3) Use your spy to sneak into the city. Spy dies. Save scum until he lives and opens the gates. Storm the city. Is everything good now? Nope, a rebel army spawns a turn later and lays siege to the city. Now you have to fight your way out.

    Why. Why does everything have to be freaking Dark Souls.

  2. #2
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Gatorade, is it in you?
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    Default Re: Kimmerian Bosporus Campaign

    Wow. That sounds miserable, and here I thought the Western Greek factions had a hard time with starting positions. Good luck, dude!

  3. #3

    Default Re: Kimmerian Bosporus Campaign

    One thing I really dislike about EB2 is that archers are almost useless against cavalry that are in the front because their hitboxes are too small when they're being fired in the front.

    The only way to eliminate them effectively is to shoot in the sides, that's where their hitboxes are bigger.

    But this is where HA's are really annoying because not only are they almost invulnerable in the front but they can also shoot back and they kill more of your troops.

    The other thing I don't like about EB2 is the charge delay, it pretty much makes Celtic units not as useful as they could be and it messes up my battles.
    Last edited by NapoleonMaster; November 13, 2019 at 06:32 AM.

  4. #4
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: Kimmerian Bosporus Campaign

    I happen to have recently playtested a Bosphorus campaign and it is indeed one of the hardest campaigns in the game.

    But I did things differently. I used the army near the nomad settlement to conquer it and if you lay siege for some time, you're attacked by another roaming nomad army. The battle is hard but you can win and now you have a new settlement and no rebels in the region. Either sack or exterminate it to put the settlement happy and send most of your troops to the west, so that you can go conquer Chersonessos. Kill the roaming rebel armies and conquer the settlement. Next turn, thousands of rebels will appear in the region, use your remaining troops in Chersonessos to kill the closest army which is also the biggest one, and end turn. Next turn, kill the remaining ones.

    After that, I suggest that you disband most of your troops but have a decent army in the capital and start accumulating money. My great mistake on that campaign was besieging Olbia without knowing that it had a garrison script, and while my army was strong, it got overwhelmed by the enemy numbers. So take your time before going after Olbia and try to assault it on the first turn with a spy.

    Overall, don't bother about your finances, you will be in the red for quite some time, try to build roads because it is useful to move troops in land. Disband your navy, you won't need it for a long time.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Kimmerian Bosporus Campaign

    I Think Bosporus Fraction is superfluous in game .

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Kimmerian Bosporus Campaign

    1)I have done a few KB campaigns and I never felt like it was unfair.You will go into dept so spend all of your money on troops and mercs that way you can defeat your enemies and at least conquer Olbia and Chersonesos

    2)Not really...I agree that they should be more vurnerable to archers but they aren't that effectiv against your hoplites and you should use cav on your own so that you can hunt them down.

    3)They shouldn't be that hard to defeat unless you were careless and lost too many troops in the earlier battles.
    Elder Scrolls Online :Messing up the Lore since 2007...

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  7. #7
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Gatorade, is it in you?
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    Default Re: Kimmerian Bosporus Campaign

    Why are there now two people who make the typo of "dept" (short for "department") instead of debt. It's spelled "D" "E" "B" "T", you guys.

    The best way to kill horse archers is either with your own horse archers, or with fast javelin skirmisher cavalry that can catch up with them, pin them in place, and allow another heavier cavalry unit to swoop in from behind with a charge from the flank. Works every time.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Kimmerian Bosporus Campaign

    I am not sure, but historically wasn't foot archers a counter to horse archers, since you shoot better with both feet on the ground, and there'd always be more foot archers than horse archers...

  9. #9
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Kimmerian Bosporus Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Geffalrus View Post
    freaking psychopaths ... Why. Why does everything have to be freaking Dark Souls.
    I think the EBII team members should put this into their sigs and carry it with proud. This is how the EBII should be. Alas, I don't think it's true. Too much money and too much units available for many factions. But maybe not for the KB. I'll check it at some point.
    (for the record: I think a simillar approach should be adopted while tweaking Pritanoi ;-)
    For those who want to play a historical mod in a medieval setting:
    try either the Titanium, the Stainless Steel Historical Improvement Project + minimods,
    or the Broken Crescent + Buff and Shine submod.
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  10. #10
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Kimmerian Bosporus Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Khevsur View Post
    I Think Bosporus Fraction is superfluous in game .
    That's nice, they're not going anywhere.

  11. #11
    Decanus
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    Default Re: Kimmerian Bosporus Campaign

    Some clarification is in order:

    1) I'm still playing 2.3 (2.3r maybe?) and have yet to upgrade to 2.35. If there have been major changes to KB, then I'm clearly missing those.

    2) As powerful as horse archers are, that's not necessarily my complaint. Historically, they were a terror, and I'm rather impressed with how well the game engine and the mod replicate that.

    3) My issue is the extent to which the player is actively punished for their first few turn choices in this campaign, and the fact that the only way to even deal with these obstacles is to have played, failed, and then started again. Or save scummed. The degree to which you only know about certain dangers in your two obvious expansion paths through having them jump you is extremely frustrating. Most other campaigns in the mod do a good job of providing some level of warning.

    3a) The fact that Maeotia is a trap where you gain nothing for the high cost you pay, is exacerbated by the fact that your main army is aimed in that direction. It's just making you pointlessly waste a turn by backtracking your forces.

    3b) Chersonessos is such a matryoshka doll of scripted rebel armies, that there really should be a triggered warning about it. Maybe that's in the updated version.

    4) The extra frustrating part of Chersonessos is that I was able to get very lucky and take the city without spending on additional units, only to be blindsided by a big rebel army spawning out of nothing with no warning. I go into debt in plenty of other campaigns, so it's not like the experience is unexpected. But usually, you spend that money to overcome the OBVIOUS challenge of existing armies, not the possibility of magical spawning armies.

    5) EB should focus on historical authenticity, not on providing a Dark Souls approach to difficulty.

  12. #12
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Kimmerian Bosporus Campaign

    2.35 is hugely different to 2.3 on a wide range of measures.

  13. #13
    Decanus
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    Default Re: Kimmerian Bosporus Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    2.35 is hugely different to 2.3 on a wide range of measures.
    Sigh, okay, I'll go try to figure out the update install procedure again. RIP all my savegames.

  14. #14
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: Kimmerian Bosporus Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Geffalrus View Post
    Sigh, okay, I'll go try to figure out the update install procedure again. RIP all my savegames.
    Might be better to wait for the next patch, unless you want to do it all over again in a few weeks or months.

  15. #15
    Decanus
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    Default Re: Kimmerian Bosporus Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    Might be better to wait for the next patch, unless you want to do it all over again in a few weeks or months.
    I hate you.

    J/k - it actually wasn't that bad. Even easier than the instructions made it out to be.

    Went after Paniardis first - battle went better, and the unrest was much better after I enslaved. Rebel pillaging is destroying my eco, but I already spent all my money on 2 Peltastes Logades, a Xysto, and a government in the conquered settlement. Now I'm heading for a confrontation with the cavalry that starts near Chersonnessos.

  16. #16
    Decanus
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    Default Re: Kimmerian Bosporus Campaign

    Managed to defeat the initial rebel stacks near Chersonnessos, though my cavalry got chewed up because the Kimmerians completely lack heavy cavalry in the early game, so bodyguards and Scythian noble heavies are a real problem. My spy died every single time I reloaded, so I settled in for a siege. The initial assault went poorly, as I only have 2 hoplites, 1 militia hoplite, and 3 Peltast Logades with which to storm the city as heavy infantry. The defenders have multiple hoplites of their own AND one of the new Pontic Heavy Hoplites that steamroll through even my Logades. The massive defensive stack ground down my heavy infantry and I was still no closer to reaching the city center. I eventually waited out the siege, autoresolved to horrendous losses just to quickly wrap things up, and checked my income. I was making a 102 gold profit while being stupendously in debt. And the new Scythian revenge stacks that just spawned are more than my depleted army can handle.

    So that campaign can go straight into the trash. Maybe I'll try fighting the roving stacks with my starting forces, then disbanding most everything while waiting for my roads to build and then seeing if I can slowly build up again? Or maybe I'll go straight for Cherson and ignore Maiotia?

    Either way, the balance on this campaign is completely bonkers.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Kimmerian Bosporus Campaign

    >The initial assault went poorly, as I only have 2 hoplites, 1 militia hoplite, and 3 Peltast Logades with which to storm the city as heavy infantry. The defenders have multiple hoplites of their own AND one of the new Pontic Heavy Hoplites that steamroll through even my Logades.

    Use archers to fire in the back and sides at the start of the siege ,don't attack in a single spot and split up the defending army .Enemy heavy cav can be beaten by properly microing your own cav and charging in the back of their units.Killing the general early helps too.


    >Either way, the balance on this campaign is completely bonkers.


    No you're just not very good at the game.


    5) EB should focus on historical authenticity, not on providing a Dark Souls approach to difficulty.
    History wasn't fair either.
    Elder Scrolls Online :Messing up the Lore since 2007...

    Well overhand or underhand: 3:50 Onwards...

  18. #18
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: Kimmerian Bosporus Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Geffalrus View Post
    Managed to defeat the initial rebel stacks near Chersonnessos, though my cavalry got chewed up because the Kimmerians completely lack heavy cavalry in the early game, so bodyguards and Scythian noble heavies are a real problem. My spy died every single time I reloaded, so I settled in for a siege. The initial assault went poorly, as I only have 2 hoplites, 1 militia hoplite, and 3 Peltast Logades with which to storm the city as heavy infantry. The defenders have multiple hoplites of their own AND one of the new Pontic Heavy Hoplites that steamroll through even my Logades. The massive defensive stack ground down my heavy infantry and I was still no closer to reaching the city center. I eventually waited out the siege, autoresolved to horrendous losses just to quickly wrap things up, and checked my income. I was making a 102 gold profit while being stupendously in debt. And the new Scythian revenge stacks that just spawned are more than my depleted army can handle.
    So you assaulted a city that had stronger troops than yours? And you expected to win?

    You autoresolved the siege battle? Of course you will get terrible losses. It would be much better to just wait until the city garrison sallied out to attack you. It would be a lot easier to destroy them and you would be able to keep an army strong enough to defeat the Scythian stacks.

    The campaign is not "bonkers", but it is one of the hardest campaigns in the game and you need to be very smart before expanding. Historically, the Bosporan Kingdom didn't expand that much, so I don't see how is the campaign a "dark souls" experience.

  19. #19
    Decanus
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    Default Re: Kimmerian Bosporus Campaign

    "Use archers to fire in the back and sides at the start of the siege ,don't attack in a single spot and split up the defending army .Enemy heavy cav can be beaten by properly microing your own cav and charging in the back of their units.Killing the general early helps too."

    I did. There is no enemy cav in the siege battle - that's in the field battles that I already won. In the siege, killing the general is extremely difficult as they are hidden inside a well-armored spear unit that is naturally hard to kill. I can't dedicate multiple units to that task in the small confines of the siege because the enemy outnumbers me because AS I HAVE ALREADY MENTIONED you don't start with a lot of money to hire more.

    "No you're just not very good at the game."

    Go yourself.


    "History wasn't fair either."

    Again, go yourself.

  20. #20
    Decanus
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    Default Re: Kimmerian Bosporus Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    So you assaulted a city that had stronger troops than yours? And you expected to win?

    You autoresolved the siege battle? Of course you will get terrible losses. It would be much better to just wait until the city garrison sallied out to attack you. It would be a lot easier to destroy them and you would be able to keep an army strong enough to defeat the Scythian stacks.

    The campaign is not "bonkers", but it is one of the hardest campaigns in the game and you need to be very smart before expanding. Historically, the Bosporan Kingdom didn't expand that much, so I don't see how is the campaign a "dark souls" experience.
    You guys are the ones who gave the city stronger troops. I bought the best and most that I could, and it wasn't enough. If I'm not supposed to easily take Chersonessos, then maybe telegraph that ahead of time like you do in allllll the other campaigns. There's a difference between difficulty with a point and difficulty just because.

    And fwiw, I autoresolved because it was late in the evening (not all of us have infinite game time) and I just wanted to see what the post siege situation would be like. I expected crazy losses, and actually hoped for them, because I wanted to see what my income would be like with a smaller army. It was unimpressive. I've generally found the Kimmerian economy to be lackluster early game even if you delete everything, which really undercuts the whole "wait to expand until later" idea. Still, I'll probably try again with a different approach because I'm genuinely curious to see what the faction and culture is like.

    As always, the historical aspects of this game are head and shoulders above most others in this genre. Which is fortunate, because apparently this community's approach to user feedback and frustration is "hur hur it's supposed to be difficult, git gud" which is less than endearing. If that's your deal, then I'll look for help and advice elsewhere.

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