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Thread: Bolivia president resigns. Danger of civil war ahead

  1. #1
    Papay's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Bolivia president resigns. Danger of civil war ahead

    https://news.yahoo.com/bolivia-presi...205907845.html

    (Bloomberg) -- Evo Morales, South America’s longest-serving president and a towering figure for the region’s left-wing movements, resigned after election irregularities triggered weeks of violent clashes and intervention from the armed forces.Morales said he was leaving office to avoid violence, adding that he wouldn’t flee the country since he hadn’t stolen anything. He pointed to the economic progress of the country and said in his resignation speech that he was the victim of a coup and called for the international community to intervene.
    Russia joined leftist governments in the region, including Mexico, Venezuela and Cuba, in denouncing what the Foreign Ministry in Moscow said on Monday appeared to have been “an orchestrated coup” against Morales. The U.S., which on Sunday criticized the “flawed” elections, kept a low profile over Morales’s departure.
    Bolivia plunged into deeper chaos late Sunday with reports of fires and looting, as well as confusion over the succession after the three officials who were next in line to replace Morales also stepped down.
    Arrest Warrant
    On Sunday night, Morales said on Twitter that the Bolivian police had an arrest warrant against him, and also that violent groups had attacked his home.
    Morales’s resignation caps three weeks of political violence in the landlocked nation. While he presided over respectable economic growth under a socialist-light model, his desire to cling on to power after almost 14 years even after losing a referendum ultimately led to his downfall. His exit also coincides with a period of social unrest in recent weeks across South America, from Ecuador to Chile, amid austerity programs and cuts in social programs and subsidies.
    Bolivia’s top soldier General Williams Kaliman Romero earlier said Morales should step down to restore peace to the country. The governments of Mexico and Venezuela, as well as Argentine President-elect Alberto Fernandez, echoed Morales in denouncing the events as a coup.

    Some call it resignation, some call it a coup. Fact is that indigenous people who had elected the first indigenous president in the history of Bolivia are angry and there are reports that El alto(the second most populous city in Bolivia)has revolted.

  2. #2
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Bolivia president resigns. Danger of civil war ahead

    Gets what he deserves. He had no right to seek a fourth term but did anyway.

  3. #3
    Beorn's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Bolivia president resigns. Danger of civil war ahead

    Another elected left government goes down in South America, let's see which Dictator will be Washington's chosen one for Bolivia
    Last edited by Beorn; November 12, 2019 at 10:37 AM.

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    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Bolivia president resigns. Danger of civil war ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Another elected left government goes down in South America, let's see which Dictator will be Washington's chosen one for Bolivia
    Don't violate your country's constitution and ignore a referendum and you just might stay in power.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Bolivia president resigns. Danger of civil war ahead

    The year is still going and yet another US backed coup. Another opportunity for Burgermericans to ventilate about meaningless talking points particular to their own baseless societies.

    This is ultimately about nativism vs US globalised filth. Any idiot can see what indigenous Morales represents when compared to the petri dish of humanity made up by the US backed mobs baying for his blood.

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    Default Re: Bolivia president resigns. Danger of civil war ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by The Gurkhan View Post
    The year is still going and yet another US backed coup. Another opportunity for Burgermericans to ventilate about meaningless talking points particular to their own baseless societies.

    This is ultimately about nativism vs US globalised filth. Any idiot can see what indigenous Morales represents when compared to the petri dish of humanity made up by the US backed mobs baying for his blood.
    If he represented Bolivia so well then why did he lose out in the 2016 referendum to amend the Constitution to allow him to serve more than two terms?

  7. #7
    B. W.'s Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Bolivia president resigns. Danger of civil war ahead

    AT published some articles a while back and predicted this would happen. Not to worry, Bolivia will just elect another socialist and expect a different result.

  8. #8
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Bolivia president resigns. Danger of civil war ahead

    AT published some articles a while back and predicted this would happen. Not to worry, Bolivia will just elect another socialist and expect a different result.
    Which ones his economic track record is quite compared to when he started. But of nobody in Latin america from the right or backed by the military ever violated a term office (or bothered with to violate).

    http://cepr.net/press-center/press-r...s-s-presidency

    Evo performed a rather stupid own goal. He should have had could have had a successor. But its an easy mistake for both the left or the right. One could say that sadly Museveni in Uganda made the same mistake and worse Kagame has followed in his footsteps in Rawanda.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

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    Cookiegod's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Bolivia president resigns. Danger of civil war ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    AT published some articles a while back and predicted this would happen. Not to worry, Bolivia will just elect another socialist and expect a different result.
    Yup, that sounds legit:

    Illiteracy rates:
    2006 13.0%, 2018 2.4%

    Unemployment rates
    2006 9.2%, 2018 4.1%

    Moderate poverty rates
    2006 60.6%, 2018 34.6%

    Extreme poverty rates
    2006 38.2%, 2018 15.2%

    Bolivia was such a great country until Evio Morales stepped in.
    The opposition candidate Carlos Mesa used to be the president of Bolivia until he had to step down due to his government selling out Bolivia's resources for no gain of its people. So how much better was the country when he lost power in 2005?

    Oh right:
    Illiteracy rate: 13.0%
    Unemployment rate: 9.2%
    Moderate poverty rate: 60.6%
    Extreme poverty rate: 38.2%

    But surely a socialist is always going to ruin the economy:



    But hey, at least all that Lithium will be able to flow out freely from the country without first creating jobs. Because I'm willing to bet that this is one of the first decisions that's going to be reversed by the coup "government".
    .







    Quote Originally Posted by Derc View Post
    No one cares what Derc has to say.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Bolivia president resigns. Danger of civil war ahead

    Another failing socialist regime should serve as warning to anyone who would seek to vote for as "democratic socialist" in any upcoming Western elections. And non-Western too.

  11. #11
    Cookiegod's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Bolivia president resigns. Danger of civil war ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Another failing socialist regime should serve as warning to anyone who would seek to vote for as "democratic socialist" in any upcoming Western elections. And non-Western too.
    This comment, right after I posted this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    Yup, that sounds legit:

    Illiteracy rates:
    2006 13.0%, 2018 2.4%

    Unemployment rates
    2006 9.2%, 2018 4.1%

    Moderate poverty rates
    2006 60.6%, 2018 34.6%

    Extreme poverty rates
    2006 38.2%, 2018 15.2%

    [...]

    But surely a socialist is always going to ruin the economy:


    [...]
    .







    Quote Originally Posted by Derc View Post
    No one cares what Derc has to say.

  12. #12
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Bolivia president resigns. Danger of civil war ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Another failing socialist regime should serve as warning to anyone who would seek to vote for as "democratic socialist" in any upcoming Western elections. And non-Western too.
    So just going to ignore the economic data showing not failing but extremely successful???.

    So rather a successful socialist administration. A leader that made the not uncommon mistake of thinking he was the indispensable man. A population particularly the indigenous (and historically oppressed) feeling confident he was not (indispensable). Being Latin America can't say military involvement is a good thing. Read couple things suggesting his base was getting a bit conflicted over development first at the cost of environmentalism. That is the economy had improved so dramatically for the poor a fair percentage did think national wildlife reserves or parks needed more exploitation.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Bolivia president resigns. Danger of civil war ahead

    I trust those people in this thread opposing imperialism and foreign intervention and upholding the rights of the indigenous population will act the same way regarding Europe...


    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    Yup, that sounds legit:

    Illiteracy rates:
    2006 13.0%, 2018 2.4%

    Unemployment rates
    2006 9.2%, 2018 4.1%

    Moderate poverty rates
    2006 60.6%, 2018 34.6%

    Extreme poverty rates
    2006 38.2%, 2018 15.2%
    While that does sound good, I think there's some important numbers missing. For instance, how did their national debt develop? What's the state of the environment (I heard that there were a lot of forest fires in Bolivia, too)? Etc.

    I also don't understand why Morales, faced with a term limit, didn't groom a potential successor who could represent his ideas in the next election cycle.

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    irontaino's Avatar Deadass B
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    Default Re: Bolivia president resigns. Danger of civil war ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    I trust those people in this thread opposing imperialism and foreign intervention and upholding the rights of the indigenous population will act the same way regarding Europe...
    If Europe ever comes under the thumb of imperialism or it's people being oppressed, then sure. But since that's not happening, I don't know what your point was.
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    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Bolivia president resigns. Danger of civil war ahead

    For instance, how did their national debt develop?
    20 solid years of mismanagement and coups starting 1964 (?) til 1981-ish. The last military dictator was sufficiently thuggish ant he could not even toss out some anti-commie rhetoric to get Regan to back him. From 82 forward Bolia kinda manged to reestablish proper governments but under a lot internal checks and balances that made governing not likely to be dynamic the did stick the 90s era neo liberal reforms but of course those were never going to change the basic systemic lack of economic equality built in the system from the time of independence forward even if they start to stabilize the economy in aggregate ways. Bolivian leaders kinda opted out of the US war drugs so kinda good way to avoid really resentful rural revolts.

    Evo thus had a surprisingly stable country to run and did a good job of doing more than trickle down. Strategically his moves to attack or weaken the parts of government that keep Bolivia stable were well a mistake of the first order. When you get past the headlines he was not seemly facing much pressure from his base even the very poor were seeing real tangible gains. In fact the push under him seemed partialy environmental - too fast or reckless on development. The thinks he altered in the government its complex divvying up of power were the very things that certainly kept that right and military from going the coup route. As soon as he lost the referendum on another term he should have just plastered somebody from the party on posters next him said he or she is my guy to carry on and retired to congress or something taken a back seat and let the appointed successors give all the speeches and stuff. Its surprising how otherwise successful leads always find that difficult.
    Last edited by conon394; November 13, 2019 at 01:16 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  16. #16
    Cookiegod's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Bolivia president resigns. Danger of civil war ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    While that does sound good, I think there's some important numbers missing.
    Let me help you.
    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    For instance, how did their national debt develop? What's the state of the environment (I heard that there were a lot of forest fires in Bolivia, too)? Etc.
    I'm not going to pretend I know anything about the environment, and it's not (easily) quantifiable. As for debt to gdp, it had its all time high during the presidency of Carlos Mesa (you know, the guy who's all butthurt now for losing to Morales). He had to step down in 2005, Evo Morales brought it down significantly from 90% to 35%.
    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    I also don't understand why Morales, faced with a term limit, didn't groom a potential successor who could represent his ideas in the next election cycle.
    That was not his critical mistake. His critical mistake was to leave the same stooges in control of the military as before. Both the army chief and the chief of the police had part of their career in Washington DC. CIA is well known to recruit people when they're stationed there.

    Anyway... No one here needs to worry much about a civil war now. The poor indigenous people with no arms have no chance against the heavily armed army, police and right wing fascistoid paramilitaries.

    Remember how they didn't want to do anything against those protesting Evo Morales' victory? Well the moment people demonstrated for him then they immediately started getting involved. ^^
    .







    Quote Originally Posted by Derc View Post
    No one cares what Derc has to say.

  17. #17
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Bolivia president resigns. Danger of civil war ahead

    That was not his critical mistake. His critical mistake was to leave the same stooges in control of the military as before. Both the army chief and the chief of the police had part of their career in Washington DC. CIA is well known to recruit people when they're stationed there.
    No his critical mistake was still trying to extend his terms and packing Constitutional Tribunal. He really did not to do either and there was no doubt really any hand picked successor would not have won election. People have agency besides the CIA. Evo screwed up, or I suppose if he really wanted to president for life he should have purged the military.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  18. #18
    saxdude's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Bolivia president resigns. Danger of civil war ahead

    The straight facts of the matter is that Evo's goverment was the superior goverment, seeing increases in economic prosperity, self determination, racial equality and education. What is also a fact is that instead of grooming a successor, Evo took on a paternalistic role in Bolivia when he could have easily renounced the presidency while keeping his party in office, choosing instead to commit unneccesary fraud and shooting himself as well as the rest of Bolivia, in the foot. That or you know... do something to actually support his continued power in the region.
    What is also a *fact* is that whatever legitimacy the anti-fraud movement had is being lost, as religious right wing fundamentalists and facists begin to take control and polarize the people with evangelist and racial retoric, such as those pronounced by the now Constitutional President Jeanine Ańez.

    In the coming weeks we will see how things develop, but it seems quite likely things are moving towards a worse place, as a legitimate protest turns into a coup.



    An extra factoid is that HH has the worst takes, as per us'.

    I trust those people in this thread opposing imperialism and foreign intervention and upholding the rights of the indigenous population will act the same way regarding Europe...
    Pray tell what european country has an even remotely similar situation going on within it's borders?
    Last edited by saxdude; November 13, 2019 at 01:27 PM.

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  19. #19
    irontaino's Avatar Deadass B
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    Default Re: Bolivia president resigns. Danger of civil war ahead

    Looks like we're back in the old days of U.S. backed right-wing governments in Latin America. Those were fun times, where non-whites enjoyed equal rights, the environment was safeguarded as were human rights in general, right? Right?
    Fact:Apples taste good, and you can throw them at people if you're being attacked
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  20. #20
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Bolivia president resigns. Danger of civil war ahead

    I really so not seeing much US backing in this one. Again its not always the US. I doubt the Trump administration has enough focus to think of anything in South America beyond Venezuela and I am betting Trump can't even remember the guy he recognized there.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

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