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Thread: Our general has fallen !!

  1. #1

    Default Our general has fallen !!

    generals die way too quickly for both player and AI. i make it a point not to purposely snipe AI generals but got damn they snipe mine.

    the spartan general is a increased size unit of hoplites, so AI ranged will always prioitize it due to unit size.

    also for some reason infantry general units put their actual general person in the VERY FRONT.

    if u use them to any degree at all ur general will die...
    its kinda stupid that when u have advantage of a strong, increase size general unit ... u can't actualy use it without ur general dying 24/7

    is there anyway to fix this / increase general hp?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Our general has fallen !!

    In my experience AI general's unit normally keeps behind front lines. Both mounted and hoplite. Only occasionally I've seen Bosphoran kingdom's hoplite general engaging in melee some time after front lines clashed.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Our general has fallen !!

    Only scenario I have experienced a 'fast general death' is when I am defending a settlement where the AI is a bit reckless. In open battles AI usually keeps the general unit protected in the back and only in a dire need or in late battle stages will engage him.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Our general has fallen !!

    im talking about infantry general units for the player, mostly spartan. where they place the actual general person in front of the unit. the actual general person has a small flag inside your general unit

    im not talking about the unit vs army positioning.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Our general has fallen !!

    Sorry my bad rushed reading.

    If I recall correctly Spartan general is a 300 man very heavy hoplite phalanx unit with quality armor and stats - a tough unit to kill. Snipe your general with projectiles from the front is highly improbable IMHO. As a spear unit (quality one too) has minimal problems with cavalry charges. Only scenario I can imagine is using default formation where he is put front line to the right flank and the AI swarms a lot of units on him.What I would do is keep him behind the main infantry line so that he provides morale and shouts and engage him only to support in the appropriate time - usually close to the right flank.

    For the general in person in every unit AFAIK he is in the first line - maybe some of the highly experienced guys here can clarify but that's my understanding. And it looks it doesn't matter that much provided you use the unit with carefulness.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Our general has fallen !!

    Quote Originally Posted by john909 View Post
    Sorry my bad rushed reading.

    If I recall correctly Spartan general is a 300 man very heavy hoplite phalanx unit with quality armor and stats - a tough unit to kill. Snipe your general with projectiles from the front is highly improbable IMHO. As a spear unit (quality one too) has minimal problems with cavalry charges. Only scenario I can imagine is using default formation where he is put front line to the right flank and the AI swarms a lot of units on him.What I would do is keep him behind the main infantry line so that he provides morale and shouts and engage him only to support in the appropriate time - usually close to the right flank.

    For the general in person in every unit AFAIK he is in the first line - maybe some of the highly experienced guys here can clarify but that's my understanding. And it looks it doesn't matter that much provided you use the unit with carefulness.
    it is true that if never send it to combat, it can generally survive. #seewutididthar
    however, if you send it to melee at all it has a decent chance of dying, which makes prohibitive unless absolutely necessary. the same isn't the case for cav generals, since u kind of dont send them in unless ur flanking and enemy routes quickly. the cav generals also dont seem to be in the dead front like spartan generals.

    i've also used the rome infantry general alot and they dont seem to have this problem of having the general person in the dead front

  7. #7

    Default Re: Our general has fallen !!

    It is also true that this unit is one of the strongest general units early game (if not THE strongest) and very hard to die. It is the way you use it. The AI has the tendency to always focus your general when is exposed. So if you choose to put him in the front line and have him charge heroically or being charged by a zerg of enemies then yes possibilities are the unit will get swarmed and finally the general himself will fall. Because losing your general has a dramatic effect on morale most players choose to use this unit carefully. That doesn't mean he won't fight at all but ideally he will fight when and where he can turn the tide of a battle in balance.

    Bonus video of a custom battle between a unit of Hippeis versus 2 units of Custodes Praetorii (maybe the strongest Roman infantry general?).


    What you write about cavalry is what happens often but not always. General cavalry units (and shock cavalry in general) get very good scores against medium infantry, or most "non spear infantry" because of their charge bonus - even charging head to head. Give it a try some time.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Our general has fallen !!

    Quote Originally Posted by john909 View Post
    It is also true that this unit is one of the strongest general units early game (if not THE strongest) and very hard to die. It is the way you use it. The AI has the tendency to always focus your general when is exposed. So if you choose to put him in the front line and have him charge heroically or being charged by a zerg of enemies then yes possibilities are the unit will get swarmed and finally the general himself will fall. Because losing your general has a dramatic effect on morale most players choose to use this unit carefully. That doesn't mean he won't fight at all but ideally he will fight when and where he can turn the tide of a battle in balance.

    Bonus video of a custom battle between a unit of Hippeis versus 2 units of Custodes Praetorii (maybe the strongest Roman infantry general?).


    What you write about cavalry is what happens often but not always. General cavalry units (and shock cavalry in general) get very good scores against medium infantry, or most "non spear infantry" because of their charge bonus - even charging head to head. Give it a try some time.
    yes i know spartan general is a strong unit esp early game (off topic, macedonian general is the strongest general unit both early and late ^^), which makes you want to use it for what they are good at. and that is NOT as shock units like most cav generals are. because they are slow ass hoplites, they are good at being your frontline. yet u cant use them as such because of danger of dying.

    because they are large sized unit, enemy range will focus it if at all possible, meaning if u include it in ur frontline in a relatively even battle, ur general is almost surely going to die.

    they only way to use them is as a reinforcing unit for when ur hoplite wall breaks mid-late battle or as a flanker (which they kinda suck at)
    its just a shame that the general unit is one of the main strength of sparta yet u cannot use them the way that unit type is intended for


    funny u mention roman general, because while the unit is not as a strong, i've used them quite often and dont really have a problem with them dying. they can testudo if getting focued by range (which they normally dont anyway) , and can move around better due to higher speed.
    Last edited by meerkatology; November 11, 2019 at 05:25 PM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Our general has fallen !!

    hi, the spartan generals are phalanx unit type, when hoplites formation formed, the general tend to go to the back of the formation. I only use them in desperate situation and for settlements defending.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Our general has fallen !!

    Quote Originally Posted by meerkatology View Post
    yes i know spartan general is a strong unit esp early game, which makes you want to use it for what they are good at. and that is NOT as shock units like most cav generals are. because they are slow ass hoplites, they are good at being your frontline. yet u cant use them as such because of danger of dying.

    because they are large sized unit, enemy range will focus it if at all possible, meaning if u include it in ur frontline in a relatively even battle, ur general is almost surely going to die.
    they only way to use them is as a reinforcing unit for when ur hoplite wall breaks mid-late battle or as a flanker (which they kinda suck at)
    its just a shame that the general unit is one of the main strength of sparta yet u cannot use them the way that unit type is intended for
    You can always use him in front line but under the right conditions. Use slingers to screen against enemy projectile units. Use peltasts, light cavalry, light infantry close to him to provide support against enemy zerging. If he is getting focused by range units try to position the general in a way their shields offer protection against missiles. There are many variables we can discuss. But for a fact this unit is a tough one and it usually creates advantages in early game battles. They may be hoplites but they are also a general unit and give value to all of the army.

    *If you prefer you could create a video of a battle where the general dies, so we can discuss with more detail.

    Quote Originally Posted by meerkatology View Post
    off topic, macedonian general is the strongest general unit both early and late ^^
    Are they really?

  11. #11

    Default Re: Our general has fallen !!

    yes they often can be used wtihout dying, but the fact is they often do die as well if used extensively.

    the risk dying is too much compared to other generals. and the consequence of dying is extremely high, esp if they are not ur own party. i play on vh and mostly loyalty hangs on a thread. if another party general especially leader dies that party goes to -30 loyalty or w/e. its just a mess.

    the point is using them as frontline is cost prohibitive most of the time.

    yes they are a very strong unit , but this strenght is much off set by the stupid positioning of the general person. other strong generals like macedonian cav general doesnt have this problem at all

    this isn't history so there is really no such thing as screening with ur ranged units, u can try to snipe enemy range but it doenst happen fast enough and enemy melee units have javelins as well.

    my common sense thinks hoplites should be better tanks against ranged fire from the front , but this isn't the case in DEI. ranged units are perhaps a bit op (slingers mainly). such that shield units including hoplites still take fairly high dmg even from the front if there are alot of enemy range.

    the only thing that reliably tanks ranged fire is testudo. nothing else.
    Last edited by meerkatology; November 13, 2019 at 04:30 AM.

  12. #12
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Our general has fallen !!

    General moves to the back of the unit if you turn on phalanx so he is safe. Only if you turn on phalanx during deployment phase he will remain at the front, just turn formation on after battle starts.
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