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Thread: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

  1. #141

    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    My sense was Logain was holding back, he could have broken out any time but didn't reveal his full strength until his army showed up. Two he could break, but 9 sisters, he needed a distraction. Egwene might have able to take him, but she doesn't know how to control the power.
    No. People that have read the books have to accept the fact that they have changed things. There's gonna be some wonky crap going on and they're not going to walk their way to insanity just...cuz..."ok".
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  2. #142
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Army is a poorly used word in most TV shows. An army is what Stanly Kubrick brings to the back lot with out telling the suits. What we saw was a raiding patrol at best.
    A fair point. Kubrick loved to bring everyone to the party. We have to accept the show was made during the pandemic and showing mass numbers is going to be suggested rather than actual. The setting didn't lend itself to CGI either.

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Seems a bit forced from the books. Rand umm has two different male instructors in one way or the other. Logain might be powerful but as far as I know he has no guidance in using the one Power.
    But he does have experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    No. People that have read the books have to accept the fact that they have changed things. There's gonna be some wonky crap going on and they're not going to walk their way to insanity just...cuz..."ok".
    I was only commenting on the scene in the show. They wanted to show levels of power and, more importantly, that Nynaeve could tap in to levels even trained Aes Sedai or a very powerful male, can't summon.

  3. #143
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    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    They cut out 'Elyas Machera' completely. Elyas is a minor character but that initial knowledge, I thought, was important as it's when Perrin realises he's not just simply going mad (and probably not the Dragon reborn).
    I doubt they did. My guess is he will show up later. They already showed the wolves.


    @Gaidin: When the 6 sisters have Rand down, he hasn't been as powerful as he gets. I don't remember Dumani Wells that well, but I think he breaks the seal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    Also, are we going to ignore that King Harald Finehair is now a Warder!...
    ?? Who?
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  4. #144
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    ?? Who?
    Actor, Peter Franzen is the warder 'Stepin' (the one with two axes).

  5. #145

    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Holy ! I completely didn't notice it and I was like, I have seen this guy somewhere in another show.
    Btw is that stolen dagger going to be trouble later on for Mat? ing idiot, he was told not to touch anything but he couldn't help himself.

  6. #146
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ishan View Post
    Holy ! I completely didn't notice it and I was like, I have seen this guy somewhere in another show.
    Btw is that stolen dagger going to be trouble later on for Mat? ing idiot, he was told not to touch anything but he couldn't help himself.
    Everything in 'Shadar Logoth' is tainted by it's Evil.

  7. #147

    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    @Gaidin: When the 6 sisters have Rand down, he hasn't been as powerful as he gets. I don't remember Dumani Wells that well, but I think he breaks the seal.
    Spoiler for
    Along the way to Dumai's Wells Rand discovers that they've taken Min with them and gets so utterly pissed that he's able to break through a six sister shield and kills a bunch of Warders in sword combat before they can get him under control. During the Battle at Dumai's Wells he's a bit...calmer and can't just break through the shield. Nevermind being beaten twice a day for the entire journey. But the battle is going poorly enough that four sisters tie off their weaves and go to the line of battle. He breaks three of their knots before the third comes back. He brute forces a three sister shield and starts knocking out sisters from behind their lines, often the shields so powerful they're being stilled.

    In the tv show, Logain gets out of the shield at about 50:00, but they don't really demonstrate any attempt on how or why he's able to get through the shield. It's just gone and here's an air blast. Earlier at 19:00 they demonstrate an attempt to break out of the shield that Moraine and Alanna handle. How Logain gets out of the shield theoretically fits. If the Sisters are maintaining it, he can't go knot by knot and weaken it, he has to literally blast the shield down with his own strength. Which he does. I just wonder since two has been enough to hold him, what drove him over the line.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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  8. #148
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    If the Sisters are maintaining it, he can't go knot by knot and weaken it, he has to literally blast the shield down with his own strength. Which he does. I just wonder since two has been enough to hold him, what drove him over the line.
    Pretty sure he was holding back while waiting for his followers to show up and distract the sisters outside. No point breaking out of the two when there were seven more in the camp.

  9. #149
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    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Pretty sure he was holding back while waiting for his followers to show up and distract the sisters outside. No point breaking out of the two when there were seven more in the camp.
    Might have been better if they did not blatter on in front of him all the time. Or was that supposed to show their arrogance?

    ----


    @Gaidian it's there canonical number of even novice sisters that can hold any Male but it high right?
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    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

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  10. #150

    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    @Gaidian it's there canonical number of even novice sisters that can hold any Male but it high right?
    Up to thirteen women can link without a male. Canonically it's just more difficult to shield anybody from the power if they're already holding it. A thirteen woman circle was able to easily shield the Dragon while he was holding the Power. They did this with some deception that I'd rather not go into great detail with.

    Now, the tv show is playing with these numbers a bit for logistics in filming, so while I don't see the 13 maximum circle going down for some of the major battles should they need heavy artillery firepower(as opposed to Moraine's single Trolloc fireballs), I don't see them crowding their screens when certain scenes come around later.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  11. #151
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Might have been better if they did not blatter on in front of him all the time. Or was that supposed to show their arrogance?
    He can't hear them, Liandrin blocks his ears as part of the shielding.

    But yes, the 'Aes Sedai' are considered extremely arrogant and secretive as well as powerful.

  12. #152
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    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Oh.
    Ohhhh...
    Well, I knew all these things. I am there for the scenery, the naked spankings,
    Why'd you stop there and strike that out? Give the people what they want! It would certainly make this show more tolerable to watch.

  13. #153
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    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Up to thirteen women can link without a male. Canonically it's just more difficult to shield anybody from the power if they're already holding it. A thirteen woman circle was able to easily shield the Dragon while he was holding the Power. They did this with some deception that I'd rather not go into great detail with.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Thanks that's I recalled. But was sure was the size of group/delegation who came to Rand in what one the places he had control over that send Lews Therin in his head into gibbering panic not the skill
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

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    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ishan View Post
    Holy ! I completely didn't notice it and I was like, I have seen this guy somewhere in another show.
    Btw is that stolen dagger going to be trouble later on for Mat? ing idiot, he was told not to touch anything but he couldn't help himself.
    Noooooooooooo!!! What made you think of that? Was it Mat spitting bile? Mat becoming visibly more pale as the episodes progress? Mat, a guy that usually went with a joke and a smile against most situations becoming more and more dark?
    Perhaps the fact that they were explicitly told to NOT touch anything in the city that was cursed by evil, an evil so great that it manifests like a black mist that makes horses explode?
    Did the fact that SHADOWSPAWN were reluctant to get to Shadar Logoth gave it away?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    In the tv show, Logain gets out of the shield at about 50:00, but they don't really demonstrate any attempt on how or why he's able to get through the shield. It's just gone and here's an air blast. Earlier at 19:00 they demonstrate an attempt to break out of the shield that Moraine and Alanna handle. How Logain gets out of the shield theoretically fits. If the Sisters are maintaining it, he can't go knot by knot and weaken it, he has to literally blast the shield down with his own strength. Which he does. I just wonder since two has been enough to hold him, what drove him over the line.
    Weeeeell... in book 7 (+/-1 book, 6-8) when Logain is with Nynaeve...
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    and she heals him while channeling angry, it is explained that Logain slowly pushes out at sister's shields when they show up to shield him again, feeling his power and theirs. He seems suave and confident in that book scene, in a way similar to the show. Or that's how I remember it like 10 years after I read it...


    I would say that Logain was not pushing out with all his strength in the show, biding his time. Keeping the Aes Sedai trying and getting tired and pushing hard once a while to keep them on edge and tired. The fact that Nynaeve was herself instrumental in him being gentled is in itself a nice touch, although I would prefer the original realization from the books, when
    (book spoilers)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Logain sees Rand, and he understands he was wrong. More or less what Moraine told him, but without Moraine. Also, I don't remember Logain going mad.
    Last edited by alhoon; November 30, 2021 at 12:40 AM.
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    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
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  15. #155
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    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    You guys discussing things that haven't been mentioned yet in the show is making me want to read the books .

    Gotta finish the Book of Dust before I start anything new though.

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  16. #156

    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Noooooooooooo!!! What made you think of that? Was it Mat spitting bile? Mat becoming visibly more pale as the episodes progress? Mat, a guy that usually went with a joke and a smile against most situations becoming more and more dark?
    Perhaps the fact that they were explicitly told to NOT touch anything in the city that was cursed by evil, an evil so great that it manifests like a black mist that makes horses explode?
    Did the fact that SHADOWSPAWN were reluctant to get to Shadar Logoth gave it away?
    Yes the gradual negative change is noticeable but I'm a little worried for Mat. Also isn't Rand or Mat himself noticing how that dagger seems to be draining him & taking a toll?
    Man I wanted to binge this. I'm really not used to waiting every week. This is the bloody binge age!

    Also cheers to Sir Halie, that youtube channel got me really hooked now. And it's clear that the show makers have missed to elaborate some things which wouldn't have hurt and could've been put under the time wasted of romance BS.

  17. #157

    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Weeeeell... in book 7 (+/-1 book, 6-8) when Logain is with Nynaeve...
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    and she heals him while channeling angry, it is explained that Logain slowly pushes out at sister's shields when they show up to shield him again, feeling his power and theirs. He seems suave and confident in that book scene, in a way similar to the show. Or that's how I remember it like 10 years after I read it...
    Well, as I said, I'm wary of using book standards for this due to tv show logistics to have characters be easily filmed. Nynaeve and Logain are of at least comparable levels in the sense that he has to at least fight against her. Though how that will present itself later, I think will be interesting.
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  18. #158
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Also cheers to Sir Halie, that youtube channel got me really hooked now. And it's clear that the show makers have missed to elaborate some things which wouldn't have hurt and could've been put under the time wasted of romance BS.
    No worries. He does pretty good episode breakdowns too. To be fair, they skipped over a lot but might go back. A lot of shows these days have an origin episode, or some other deviation from the main arc, just before the season closer. Maybe they'll do the same with this.

  19. #159
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    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    He can't hear them, Liandrin blocks his ears as part of the shielding.

    But yes, the 'Aes Sedai' are considered extremely arrogant and secretive as well as powerful.
    Missed that in the show but you know three kids and cats its easy to skip a bit of dialogue If somebody is emphatic they have a desperate need.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

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    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  20. #160
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    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Missed that in the show but you know three kids and cats its easy to skip a bit of dialogue If somebody is emphatic they have a desperate need.
    Well, a lot of that was in Emond's Field and it didn't translate too well.
    But you will see it as the show progresses for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    You guys discussing things that haven't been mentioned yet in the show is making me want to read the books .

    The books are better than the show, but the show is good. IMO the books are better than A Song of Ice and Fire.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ishan View Post
    Yes the gradual negative change is noticeable but I'm a little worried for Mat. Also isn't Rand or Mat himself noticing how that dagger seems to be draining him & taking a toll?
    Man I wanted to binge this. I'm really not used to waiting every week. This is the bloody binge age!

    Also cheers to Sir Halie, that youtube channel got me really hooked now. And it's clear that the show makers have missed to elaborate some things which wouldn't have hurt and could've been put under the time wasted of romance BS.

    The romance between Rand and Egwene is in the books (but they aren't having sex) and ... I wouldn't call it BS. Also, the show has removed a lot of romance. Sure, they added Perrin's wife, but I count that as a win personally.

    As for Rand & Mat noticing how the dagger drains him... Rand doesn't know about the dagger. And Mat has not noticed it comes from the dagger nor he is willing to speak about it.
    I honestly think the progress of Mat's curse and the taint of Shadar Logoth turning him pale, distant and less jubilant is well done in the show. Sure, you need to see him spitting bile because subtlety = most casuals will miss it. And yet, the showrunners manage to show-not-tell to us that Mat becomes paler and corrupted. It is much easier with written word saying "Mat seemed visibly more pale as days advanced" or "Rand was worried about Mat's personality changes".
    Thom saying "he's showing X and Y" and Rand accepting it, doesn't count as "tell not just show" IMO as we have already seen those things.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
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