Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

[Flinn]

I also found the first episode to be the least impressive of the bunch, but they've been getting progressively better imo

please learn to properly quote people, dammit

yes I've watched episode two and it's better, still not impressed anyways

[Gaidin]

CW has some of the worst acting, the worst casting, the worst production values, the worst script writing, the worst dialogues, the worst character development, and the worst special effects I've ever seen, and that's quite a horrendous accomplishment given how I've only watched clips and never entire episodes of shows. Unsurprisingly, their spinoff shows on Netflix are also terrible, i.e. Chilling Adventures of Sabrina (still produced by Warner Bros Television Studios under the CW).

And yet, the CW is known for schooling Warner Bros for how DC should actually do live action comic book storylines. I'm just saying. Yea, some of their seasons are slumps(Arrow and Flash season 4 I'm looking at you), but they do consistently better than Dawn of Fracking Justice and pretty much every DCEU movie except Wonder Woman.

[Gaidin]

But Perrin's new backstory<snip>

I've read they really had to avoid the 20 year old playing a 16 year old tv logistics stereotype in this series. And so they just bumped them up characterwise. Especially if they get lucky and manage to play out a huge chunk of this series and suddenly you have to find a way to justify a five to eight year timeline for this series that is really only three years for the entire story. It really makes sense. But to then at the beginning of this tv story to go zero for four(counting Egwene) for all major characters to not be married in a town like Emond's Field would be...odd.

TV logistics is just different from book story. There's a lot of implications here, not just including Perrin's new backstory that have some interesting implications. This is one of those things we're going to have to live with I think.

[Akar]

please learn to properly quote people, dammit

yes I've watched episode two and it's better, still not impressed anyways

It's so much faster to copy paste and hit the quote button than to wait 30 minutes for the "reply with quote" button to load

[ggggtotalwarrior]

I tried watching the first episode without really knowing the source material but I seriously can’t understand how cheap this show looks given the budget and the fame of the source material. I don’t know if it’s the costuming or the lighting but it really just doesn’t look good. Reminds me of that Netflix superhero show with the $200 million budget that looked terrible. Am I crazy for thinking this?

[Akar]

It gets better after the first episode, but I agree that they do seem somewhat budget.

[Halie Satanus]

I tried watching the first episode without really knowing the source material but I seriously can’t understand how cheap this show looks given the budget and the fame of the source material. I don’t know if it’s the costuming or the lighting but it really just doesn’t look good. Reminds me of that Netflix superhero show with the $200 million budget that looked terrible. Am I crazy for thinking this?

I think we're so used to cinimatography dulling down daylight, or giving movies blue/green filters it looks odd (cheap) when they blow up the saturation. Had they gone the other way and darkened it down, especially the Trolloc scenes, it could have looked every penny worth the budget.

[alhoon]

Had they gone the other way and darkened it down, especially the Trolloc scenes, it could have looked every penny worth the budget.

And with all that budget, nobody thought of that? It can't be that hard to turn down the saturation. I agree that in the trolloc scenes it would have helped.

[Ishan]

Watched the 4th episode and it was okay and it seems I'm not really getting the intricacies of the lore. Like the differences of green, red and blue sisters wielding the one power.

[Halie Satanus]

And with all that budget, nobody thought of that? It can't be that hard to turn down the saturation. I agree that in the trolloc scenes it would have helped.

Someone made a decision, I guess they thought fantasy = weird over saturated lighting. It's not uncommon in the genre. Back when I worked in animation, we called it grading, making sure lighting effects fit in with backgrounds and foreground characters. I guess it's a lot harder in a live action setting.

Watched the 4th episode and it was okay and it seems I'm not really getting the intricacies of the lore. Like the differences of green, red and blue sisters wielding the one power.

You could give this guy's video's a watch. None are too long, and he explains a lot of the lore/history.

[Gaidin]

I think we're so used to cinimatography dulling down daylight, or giving movies blue/green filters it looks odd (cheap) when they blow up the saturation. Had they gone the other way and darkened it down, especially the Trolloc scenes, it could have looked every penny worth the budget.

Well, thing is for the first book they're probably dulling down daylight given the near/winter and cloudy weather that lasts through spring thanks to the Dark One's screwery. It's hard to just put off filming until you have a nice cloudy day all the time. Whereas, a week of night filming for the attack on Emond's Field, which, given, they learned from a lot of the mistakes of Game of Thrones and you could actually *see* what's going on.

Spoiler for : 

Thing to remember for people who've read the books. You don't have a good sunny day until the second book.

[alhoon]

Watching Episode 4 right now.

First thing first: In the books Logain's war in Ghealdan was dealt with 2-3 lines here and there where people said "He did a number in Ghealdan, but the reds got him."
Now, the important deviation here is that Logain hasn't gone crazy. The Madness has not got to him by the time he was captured. He was absolutely sane when ... let's say later in the books.
That aside, Logain's portrayal of the Mad male channeler is ... accurate and I loved the tainted Saidin. More or less, a very good portrayal that gives much more depth to Logain. He becomes important much later in the books which stroke me as odd. Kudos to the developers but... did he had to be that far gone into madness already?

I don't remember the books, but I recall there were six sisters required to hold Logain. Just two, even if as powerful as those two, is very risky. And since we're talking a VERY powerful spellcaster here, why not a circle of 4? Or 7? They had the numbers. Except if they changed how circles work which doesn't seem so because Liadrin tells Moraine "that's half his power". Well, duh, why not divide it by 5 to get 5 modest Aes Sedai there instead of just burden two powerful ones?
Also the part about "Is Logain as strong as Egwene?" and Moraine's "I don't know, I don't think so." ?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Of course he is! <== not supported by the show or the books, but alhoon knows because Egwene while "promising" is nowhere close to her apex for Moraine to be able to tell where she will end up at. Logain in the TV show is shown as twice as powerful as Moraine. Egwene is not as powerful as that. Logain is Forsaken-powerful, perhaps more powerful than Nynaeve - which means that not-on-her-apex Nynaeve in this episode would have her butt handed to her by Logain if the sisters didn't link.

I like how they explain/show more about the One Power in this episode. But I am ambivalent about leaving out the other part of the curse: the wasting disease. Even if the madness doesn't kill you, the disease will. Really, gentling is a mercy. Stops progress of the madness, avoids the disease. Yes, it can be like Thom Merillyn describes it, but it is not always so, especially if you're not addicted to the One Power yet. And Not gentling a male spellcaster?! Are you serious Thom?
I ... kinda remember that story from later in the books, but ... Are you serious, Thom? As I said, if the madness doesn't cause a Male Channeler to cause an avalance on himself or if the wilder doesn't draw too much power and blows up or burns out... the disease will get him. A guy like Mat may have preferred to go out as a volcano, but the world wouldn't. These guys, even untrained, are very dangerous.
I had similar discussions with my cousin, about whether the Reds are evil or not. We always came back to the same conclusion: Sure, they're pompous and full of Feminazis but... there's no better alternative for a male spellcaster than gentling.

Speaking of False Dragons: Wasn't there another false dragon in Saldaea by that time? Mazrim Taim? Or that came later?


The part about Nynaeve's mistrust of Moraine (and Aes Sedai in general) is poorly explained. I can see that the episode simply "accepts" that Nynaeve mistrusts Moraine.
Anyone noticed the gay warders? Generally I strongly dislike inclusion for the sake of inclusion. But ... that was not bad. I mean, they are warders to the same Aes Sedai, so that's already bizarre. And it wasn't intrusive, it wasn't down our throats - moral high ground. Just two people that happen to be gay - and certainly that's not the oddest thing about them (as they are Warders).

Pet Peeve: The Mydraal's moving cloak. :-/ I honestly looked forward to some Myddraal un-normalness

Question to book-readers: We're halfway through season 1. Where is Loial? Shouldn't they have met him by now?

Verdict: After a lot of time, a WoT episode that seems like a WoT Episode. My favorite episode so far. 6 out of 7 cuendillar seals.
To be honest, I may liked it more because it had things I didn't know about or refreshed my memory in things I didn't remember. But it was a good, solid WoT episode. That episode + Shadar Logoth is how WoT episodes should be.

Watched the 4th episode and it was okay and it seems I'm not really getting the intricacies of the lore. Like the differences of green, red and blue sisters wielding the one power.

Well, Greens are battle mages (who still can't kill anything but darkfriends and Shadowspawn except in self defense). Reds are hunting male spellcasters because they are cursed to go crazy and kill people and blue are helping causes (The "glorified spies" as Liadrin calls them). In the book, they were in a big glossary at the end but within the book, without the glossary, don't expect to really get the nuisances of the Aes Sedai till much later in the show, probably in season 2.
As Alanna says, Greens have more than one Warder (reds have none).

Keep in mind that the reason you saw the male caster having those black tendrils in his magic, IMO, is that Saidin is tainted. It is corrupt.
I hope they explain it in the show like the male channelers explained it, since in the book we couldn't see those things: A putrid film of oil over pristine water. And at some point, going for the water gets the oil to stain your clothes.

[Halie Satanus]

Well, thing is for the first book they're probably dulling down daylight given the near/winter and cloudy weather that lasts through spring thanks to the Dark One's screwery. It's hard to just put off filming until you have a nice cloudy day all the time. Whereas, a week of night filming for the attack on Emond's Field, which, given, they learned from a lot of the mistakes of Game of Thrones and you could actually *see* what's going on.

Spoiler for : 

Thing to remember for people who've read the books. You don't have a good sunny day until the second book.

Yeh, I was thinking about 'The Battle of Winterfell' too. But that was a blip, albeit a massive blip, in GoT's otherwise superb cinematography. I'm not sure the attack on Emond's field wasn't in a studio, it looked like it was to me.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I had actually forgotten the weather effects caused by the dark one being notable, I thought they touched on it in the show withn Nynaeve and Egwene but kind of glanced over it, just something was wrong, but it was the presence of the Fade/Trollocs.

[alhoon]

The weather is not yet noticeably strange. The "bubbles of evil" have not started showing up yet etc. It is cloudy because it's winter. By the time the draught comes and is noticed, we'll be in the 3rd book, I think.

[Gaidin]

The weather is not yet noticeably strange. The "bubbles of evil" have not started showing up yet etc. It is cloudy because it's winter. By the time the draught comes and is noticed, we'll be in the 3rd book, I think.

Winter weather through spring is noticeably strange. Farmers were having quite some trouble doing anything. The other matter is...something else altogether. And By the time the drought comes around and is noticed....try...book 5.

[Halie Satanus]

Haha, 'bubbles of evil' good name for a band.

I think I read the first five books in a year, all gets a bit muddled to be honest.

[Gaidin]

I don't remember the books, but I recall there were six sisters required to hold Logain. Just two, even if as powerful as those two, is very risky. And since we're talking a VERY powerful spellcaster here, why not a circle of 4? Or 7? They had the numbers. Except if they changed how circles work which doesn't seem so because Liadrin tells Moraine "that's half his power". Well, duh, why not divide it by 5 to get 5 modest Aes Sedai there instead of just burden two powerful ones?
Also the part about "Is Logain as strong as Egwene?" and Moraine's "I don't know, I don't think so." ?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Of course he is! <== not supported by the show or the books, but alhoon knows because Egwene while "promising" is nowhere close to her apex for Moraine to be able to tell where she will end up at. Logain in the TV show is shown as twice as powerful as Moraine. Egwene is not as powerful as that. Logain is Forsaken-powerful, perhaps more powerful than Nynaeve - which means that not-on-her-apex Nynaeve in this episode would have her butt handed to her by Logain if the sisters didn't link.

Men were basically more powerful, but could not link without the help of women. So it typically took somewhere, let's say, 7-12 women to capture a man, if they were going to capture him alive. Six was the tradition to hold him, but once you had the man shielded, all you really needed was the number relative to his power level to maintain the appropriate shield. Even six women could hold Rand. So traditionally, no matter how strong or weak, six women would hold a man that could channel as he was transported to the Tower for Gentling.

Again, we run into filming logistics. Having six women sitting around Logain caged, you're not going to see the characters as they're important to be seen on camera. So, two maintain the shield, and the viewers see Logain. These kinds of minor changes are the kinds of things we're going to see.

Speaking of False Dragons: Wasn't there another false dragon in Saldaea by that time? Mazrim Taim? Or that came later?

Spoiler for : 

Book two-ish? I know he was waging a running war in Saldaea, and then after the Battle of Falme when the True Dragon declared crap just totally started going wrong. As it was theorized literally in the books, the smart Aes Sedai knew the Dragon was reborn, the Pattern was demanding the Dragon, a lot of Dragons were coming forward, once the True Dragon Reborn declared, the False Dragons literally collapsed in on themselves.

Question to book-readers: We're halfway through season 1. Where is Loial? Shouldn't they have met him by now?

In the capital city of Andor. Should they be following that relatively reasonably anyway. If they're still sleeping in stables they haven't made it to Thom's contact at the inn he refers them to. I'm being hideously vague here so I don't have to put half my post into spoilers here.

I mean, they don't seem to be doing that bad. When you look at the first book there's just a lot of wordage that amounts to wilderness travel that would be a lot of wasted screen time, that they're shifting to the next big event. Which...makes some pretty big sense. I think they want Logain to be a fairly big character instead of someone that pops up every third book. Which also makes sense from what I know of his importance over the story arc.

[conon394]

I had similar discussions with my cousin, about whether the Reds are evil or not. We always came back to the same conclusion: Sure, they're pompous and full of Feminazis but... there's no better alternative for a male spellcaster than gentling.

Although you might argue if you crate a whole branch of your order dedicated to just quick one solution to a male power user. While not say evil it might preclude other options. Attempts at mitigation and thus possibly aside from those claiming to be the dragon having cooperative use under extreme supervision for example. The Red reflexive actions kinda cut out a whole swathe potential opportunities. And anyone looking at the steady decline and defeats for team good seems to taking might just want to roll the dice a bit .

[Halie Satanus]

EP4.

They're not hanging around.

They cut out 'Elyas Machera' completely. Elyas is a minor character but that initial knowledge, I thought, was important as it's when Perrin realises he's not just simply going mad (and probably not the Dragon reborn).

The Myddraal, I was hoping for more, movement.

My sense was Logain was holding back, he could have broken out any time but didn't reveal his full strength until his army showed up. Two he could break, but 9 sisters, he needed a distraction. Egwene might have able to take him, but she doesn't know how to control the power.

Overall: good episode. Might need to watch again to take it all in. They need to slow the pace a bit over the next couple of episodes though. Rand has hardly featured, and I get why they're doing that now, but he needs the focus on him at some point.


Also, are we going to ignore that King Harald Finehair is now a Warder!...

[conon394]

didn't reveal his full strength until his army showed up

Army is a poorly used word in most TV shows. An army is what Stanly Kubrick brings to the back lot with out telling the suits. What we saw was a raiding patrol at best.

Two he could break

Seems a bit forced from the books. Rand umm has two different male instructors in one way or the other. Logain might be powerful but as far as I know he has no guidance in using the one Power.