So the take isn't bad. Not what I would've expected. But it gives a good extreme differentiation between settlements. I'd have hoped for brick and mortar, but I guess we get to Baerlon for that.
So the take isn't bad. Not what I would've expected. But it gives a good extreme differentiation between settlements. I'd have hoped for brick and mortar, but I guess we get to Baerlon for that.
One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
-Neil deGrasse Tyson
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.
@alhoon will re edit
But to summarize I guess I would say the books are too big and have too many plot lines that disconnect for too long for a strait forward TV adaption. So when I said artsy I meant be daring and try say cutting up the story bits in daring ways. Realistically some of the secondary narratives could be a whole season in and of themselves if only mentioned in some central arc for brevity. So really I was just of typing out loud as to how to deal with becomes a rather grand narrative with many independent plot lines drive by key characters. You have to be sweating the last couple seasons of game of thrones where you got dinged for teleporting characters, having to add new characters or places with almost no depth to the constraints and the fact GRRM moved from a tight political drama to an Epic he seemingly can't finish. Since the WOT is done however I wonder if a better approach is tell some of it in pieces as complete arcs that only get a nod in whatever the planned main story line is - guess it really depends on what Amazon is willing to spend.
Last edited by conon394; January 03, 2020 at 08:58 AM.
IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites
'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'
But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.
Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
Well, there's a thing to remember about travel in Wheel of Time. Jordan doesn't really waste his time on it. First, vis a vis Travelling.You have to be sweating the last couple seasons of game of thrones where you got dinged for teleporting characters, having to add new characters or places with almost no depth to the constraints and the fact GRRM moved from a tight political drama to an Epic he seemingly can't finish. Since the WOT is done however I wonder if a better approach is tell some of it in pieces as complete arcs that only get a nod in whatever the planned main story line is - guess it really depends on what Amazon is willing to spend.
Second, just look at book 3. There was not yet Travelling, yet, if nothing dramatic happened between point A and point B, the next god damn chapter was at point B and time passed.
People that don't like that ala the Game of Thrones tv show can take a back seat to the fact that we got more important dramatic things to worry about.
One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
-Neil deGrasse Tyson
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.
And I have not watched seasons 7 and 8 of GoT because 5 and 6 were very bad...
Not to mention I liked WoT much more than GoT. As such, I am concerned about this series that I love so much.
I am concerned about the plotlines that would be cut. I am concerned the glorious epic would not just been artistically shortened but also "dumbed down". I am concerned that progressive agenda would turn this to a political statement of "diversity is goooood!" at the expense of established characters (Two Rivers people were not dark skinned in the books but Cairhien people were - i.e. Moraine was short and tan-skinned not tall, blond and pale). I am concerned about Feminazis taking over and turning this to "men are st00pid, they need women to clean up" even though Jordan's world had a damn empire run by a woman and many many strong women from the very good to the very bad, that they will heavily rely on shades of gray morality when Jordan has said "Not everything is gray, I want some things to be black and white". I am concerned about statements of Pillow friends being introduced very early just to appease the 3% of loud progressives that demand homosexuals from the get-go despite the presence of such people in book 2+ etc etc etc.
It is not a secret that what the SJWs touch, it turns to poop. I don't want this turn to poop.
alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
"Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
_______________________________________________________
Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.
Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).
@alhoon
Lots of book adaptions before the phrase SJW was invented were crap as well. I can't agree with the political bent of your fears, but I can agree that any TV adaption will leave many true book fans angry to cold or disappointed. The simple fact is reading a book and liking to loving it is an intensely personal/private relationship. Nobody but you will ever see it or experience it the way you did and if it was a book(s) you read over and over almost certainly more so.It is not a secret that what the SJWs touch, it turns to poop. I don't want this turn to poop.
You will always be faced with the prospect of watching what some group of people came away with and what they thought they could sell to a studio or a streaming service.
----
@GaidinSecond, just look at book 3. There was not yet Travelling, yet, if nothing dramatic happened between point A and point B, the next god damn chapter was at point B and time passed.
Nice I really had not had that in the front of my mind
However the series does come to include so many detached plot lines and lore explained on the go that it will be difficult I think to put in show form without really pissing people off.
Last edited by conon394; January 12, 2020 at 06:36 PM.
IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites
'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'
But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.
Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
You're being just a little paranoid here man. This isn't really what you need to worry about turning the series to crap. What you need to worry about turning the series to crap is the sheer logistics of a 15 book series that has a 3 year timeline and how that's going to translate onto a real life film timeline. 3 years won't cut it. That in-world timeline is changing to account for actors growing older. Stop worrying about your politics. Start contemplating this series taking place over a quarter century and what it means in-world.
One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
-Neil deGrasse Tyson
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.
Book chat.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Last edited by Gaidin; January 18, 2020 at 11:25 PM.
One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
-Neil deGrasse Tyson
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.
Oh, believe me, I am mostly concerned about what would be cut. But The added insult of making Moraine a tall white blond woman, the Two Rivers people dark skinned, forced LGBT representation (as if there wasn't enough in the books) is something I can already complain about. I mean there is a ton of non-anglosaxon whites in the books with darkskinned southerners, black sea people, Asian-like Seanchan... a ton. The choice to turn Moraine to white and the Two Rivers to dark skinned is weird.
And then, there's the statement of "The books were focused on Black and White (Which is why alhoon liked them in the today's torrent of gray). We will go with shades of gray despite the Author being quite clear in many of his interviews that he sees the major conflicts in his world but also a lot of the characters as black and white because like alhoon he doesn't like the nowdays shades of gray and wants to remind the readers that there's gray but there's also a lot of black and white."
Last but not least from the already-here problems... the focus of the first season is on Moraine. :-/ Why? Because ... ehh... ? Probably because she has a vagina.
I guess Harriet sold out or was put aside as these directly contradict the author's wishes.
The series timeline being expanded somewhat is not a big concern I would say. It could be easily stretched to 6 years timeline instead of 3 and that could be covered in 8-9 seasons.
What I am concerned with the increased timeline is:
- That ageless people will age even if the show survives for 5-6 seasons, let alone 8-9
- MOSTLY: what they will have to cut to fit 12000 pages in 80 episodes of 1 hour each. <=== that's the reason I am very pessimistic about the show.
@conon:
The Harry Potter books were adapted very well mostly. Did I like them as much as the books? Well, a book takes longer, it's deeper. So no, I didn't like them as much as the books. But it did the books justice.
Lord of the Rings books were also adapted very well (mostly). Same as with HP, I didn't like all the choices but they were awesome movies that I think they did justice to the books.
Game of Thrones Seasons 1-4 the same.
And then, there's virtually every other transition to screen that I have watched that is somewhat (from little to a lot) disappointing.
Last edited by alhoon; January 21, 2020 at 05:28 PM.
alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
"Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
_______________________________________________________
Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.
Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).
So ends book four....
The pacing is definately 100% better, you'd almost think RJ was earning how to compose a story that wasn't going to end in 10-15 books time, as he went. Sections end with either the conclusion to a notable event or set piece/reveal or on a cliff hanger. Some people hate that as the story jumps to another arc as it gets good, I don't mind that as long as we get back within a reasonable amount of pages and the bit between doesn't drag. Over all I'd say four is the best one so far.
Spoiler for Book chat:
One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
-Neil deGrasse Tyson
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.
Battle TacticsSpoiler Alert, click show to read:
I recommend 'On the Possibility of Reconstructing Marathon and Other Ancient Battles' by Whatley
The simple fact is before satellite or even field telephone all too many battles look more like who best avoided a cluster F, rather than some masterful strategy that survived contact with the enemy and went as planned, unless the balance of force and skill and technology was sort of a cheat.
IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites
'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'
But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.
Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
-Neil deGrasse Tyson
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.
IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites
'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'
But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.
Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
I'm currently on Lord of Chaos, though haven't had time to read for a couple of weeks and I'm just afraid I'll loose track of where I am. I am very fond of it, but I think it's just that I'm getting worse at keeping up my reading habits in general. As for the TV show, I'm hopeful. I don't dare expect anything amazing, but it should be good enough and have the "feel" at least. Hopefully. And hey, can't be worse than the last seasons of GoT, eh?
Proudly under the patronage of General Brewster of the Imperial House of Hader
Proud patron of 4zumi, Akar, CommodusIV ,Swaeft and Peaman
I give the GoT producers a bit of break its pretty clear really GRRM has no ideal how to end his books. I know the last WoT was written by a guest author on notes (just the last right) but even when Jorden meandered into new world building on the fly, he seemed to have the end game in sight. Book lovers will always be likely offended at cuts, compression and alterations but at least the adapters have a finished story to work with.
IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites
'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'
But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.
Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
Meeeeeh... Leanne (Siuan's Keeper) became an Asian now. Seriously, with all those Asians I wonder how they will tell Seanchan apart from the various characters. Or how they will make the Sea Folk different from the various black people I expect them to introduce at random places. Or, since Rand is suddenly looking like a white Englishman*, how they will say "He's Aiel actually, never mind that he is white". Or how they justified turning Moraine, a short, Dark-haired young woman looking like a Levantine or East Mediterranean to a tall blond white woman.
I mean, if they had to go SJW route, they COULD keep the non-whites as they were, couldn't they? Rand is not Anglosaxon, Moraine is not Anglosaxon.
*Yes, I know Rand had more white skin according to the book than the rest of the pack. That was IMO a mistake. Andorans were "Tanned white" as far as I recall, and Two Rivers folk about the same. As such a half-desert-people person SHOULD have been darker, else his parents would evaporate in the Waste.
That's a pretty low bar though. I don't expect something as good as the FIRST season of GoT or the first Lord of the Rings movie, but I would be really sad if it goes as low as fast.
In the end, I can leave with different-color people than in the books - or how they should be in the books - but if they mess up important plotlines or change characters to make them more yoke, like changing the focus of the first season to Moraine instead of the actual protagonists, I would be annoyed.
Last edited by alhoon; April 13, 2020 at 05:40 PM.
alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
"Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
_______________________________________________________
Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.
Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).
Robert Jordan had "1 book" left, but there was so much story to it that it literally took three huge-ass books to write it.
Here's Tuon:
Here's Suroth:
Now, Seanchan is a big enough place that you can go all over the place with their descriptions. But with at least the Empress's family proper and not just the Blood, you're apparently getting something that were I to just put a "looks-like" description on it from across the ocean? More Central-African.
Here's a general cultural description of Saldaea:
Saldaeans have bold, prominent noses and slightly upturned, almond-shaped eyes. While as ferocious in battle as any of the Border nations, their equestrian skills are undoubtedly superior; no other nation in Randland can match Saldaea for her famed and effective use of light cavalry. Saldaean soldiers often carry serpentine swords. Saldaean men usually have long mustaches.
Another important part of Saldaean life is the sa'sara, a dance outlawed by several Saldaean queens for its indecency. While known by virtually every noblewoman, few would ever admit to the knowledge. Apparently, the sa'sara has the ability to drive men wild. The sa'sara is known to have started three wars and sparked two rebellions, among many other smaller disturbances.
On Leanne:
She has the copper skin of a Domani, and is thin and nearly as tall as a man. She is willowy, graceful, and beautiful. When Min meets her at Tar Valon, she describes her hair straight, dark and only a little longer than Min's own hair.
She lost her ageless look after being stilled, and looked about 23 years old.
Now, those are more the official descriptions and interpretive pictures. If you think a copper-skinned person shouldn't be played by an Asian speak up and point somewhere. Let's hear your solution. But I'm tired of your useless whining.
One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
-Neil deGrasse Tyson
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.
First, that pic is taking liberties with Tuon. "Dark" doesn't mean that dark. She was probably similar to Indonesians or dark-skinned Asians. On the other hand, the picture of Suroth also seems off, Suroth was probably as dark as Tuon, not pale. I.e. those artistic representations don't fit the narrative very well - or are not the only way to interpret the narrative.
Second, exactly as you said: Copper-skinned Domani. Asians are not copper-skinned. They should have gone with a Mexican.
I don't know why your brought up Saldaeans.
Third: If you're tired of my well-deserved criticism of very weird casting choices, nobody forces you reply.
Last edited by alhoon; April 14, 2020 at 12:03 AM.
alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
"Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
_______________________________________________________
Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.
Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).
I put up saldaeans because they’re right next door. What. You think the world gonna turn white across an invisible diplomatic line?
One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
-Neil deGrasse Tyson
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.