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Thread: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

  1. #21

    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    So the take isn't bad. Not what I would've expected. But it gives a good extreme differentiation between settlements. I'd have hoped for brick and mortar, but I guess we get to Baerlon for that.
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  2. #22
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    @alhoon will re edit

    But to summarize I guess I would say the books are too big and have too many plot lines that disconnect for too long for a strait forward TV adaption. So when I said artsy I meant be daring and try say cutting up the story bits in daring ways. Realistically some of the secondary narratives could be a whole season in and of themselves if only mentioned in some central arc for brevity. So really I was just of typing out loud as to how to deal with becomes a rather grand narrative with many independent plot lines drive by key characters. You have to be sweating the last couple seasons of game of thrones where you got dinged for teleporting characters, having to add new characters or places with almost no depth to the constraints and the fact GRRM moved from a tight political drama to an Epic he seemingly can't finish. Since the WOT is done however I wonder if a better approach is tell some of it in pieces as complete arcs that only get a nod in whatever the planned main story line is - guess it really depends on what Amazon is willing to spend.
    Last edited by conon394; January 03, 2020 at 08:58 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

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    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    You have to be sweating the last couple seasons of game of thrones where you got dinged for teleporting characters, having to add new characters or places with almost no depth to the constraints and the fact GRRM moved from a tight political drama to an Epic he seemingly can't finish. Since the WOT is done however I wonder if a better approach is tell some of it in pieces as complete arcs that only get a nod in whatever the planned main story line is - guess it really depends on what Amazon is willing to spend.
    Well, there's a thing to remember about travel in Wheel of Time. Jordan doesn't really waste his time on it. First, vis a vis Travelling.

    Second, just look at book 3. There was not yet Travelling, yet, if nothing dramatic happened between point A and point B, the next god damn chapter was at point B and time passed.

    People that don't like that ala the Game of Thrones tv show can take a back seat to the fact that we got more important dramatic things to worry about.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    You have to be sweating the last couple seasons of game of thrones where you got dinged for teleporting characters, having to add new characters or places with almost no depth to the constraints and the fact GRRM moved from a tight political drama to an Epic he seemingly can't finish.
    And I have not watched seasons 7 and 8 of GoT because 5 and 6 were very bad...

    Not to mention I liked WoT much more than GoT. As such, I am concerned about this series that I love so much.

    I am concerned about the plotlines that would be cut. I am concerned the glorious epic would not just been artistically shortened but also "dumbed down". I am concerned that progressive agenda would turn this to a political statement of "diversity is goooood!" at the expense of established characters (Two Rivers people were not dark skinned in the books but Cairhien people were - i.e. Moraine was short and tan-skinned not tall, blond and pale). I am concerned about Feminazis taking over and turning this to "men are st00pid, they need women to clean up" even though Jordan's world had a damn empire run by a woman and many many strong women from the very good to the very bad, that they will heavily rely on shades of gray morality when Jordan has said "Not everything is gray, I want some things to be black and white". I am concerned about statements of Pillow friends being introduced very early just to appease the 3% of loud progressives that demand homosexuals from the get-go despite the presence of such people in book 2+ etc etc etc.

    It is not a secret that what the SJWs touch, it turns to poop. I don't want this turn to poop.
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  5. #25
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    @alhoon

    It is not a secret that what the SJWs touch, it turns to poop. I don't want this turn to poop.
    Lots of book adaptions before the phrase SJW was invented were crap as well. I can't agree with the political bent of your fears, but I can agree that any TV adaption will leave many true book fans angry to cold or disappointed. The simple fact is reading a book and liking to loving it is an intensely personal/private relationship. Nobody but you will ever see it or experience it the way you did and if it was a book(s) you read over and over almost certainly more so.

    You will always be faced with the prospect of watching what some group of people came away with and what they thought they could sell to a studio or a streaming service.

    ----

    Second, just look at book 3. There was not yet Travelling, yet, if nothing dramatic happened between point A and point B, the next god damn chapter was at point B and time passed.
    @Gaidin

    Nice I really had not had that in the front of my mind

    However the series does come to include so many detached plot lines and lore explained on the go that it will be difficult I think to put in show form without really pissing people off.
    Last edited by conon394; January 12, 2020 at 06:36 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    It is not a secret that what the SJWs touch, it turns to poop. I don't want this turn to poop.
    You're being just a little paranoid here man. This isn't really what you need to worry about turning the series to crap. What you need to worry about turning the series to crap is the sheer logistics of a 15 book series that has a 3 year timeline and how that's going to translate onto a real life film timeline. 3 years won't cut it. That in-world timeline is changing to account for actors growing older. Stop worrying about your politics. Start contemplating this series taking place over a quarter century and what it means in-world.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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  7. #27
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Book chat.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Book Two: has a long section where the focus is on the girls being tricked out of Tar Valon and captured by the 'Seanchan.' That whole section, while important in setting up the battle outside Falme, dragged on way to long. Pace picks up a bit as the other characters come back into it, but the girls, at this stage are a distraction from the Dragon being reborn or the other characters stories being moved on. Rand hardly appears at all while Perrin and Mat spend most of the book wandering around without really getting anywhere. Mat because he's dying and Perrin because he doesn't seem to have anything better to do.

    Recently finished book three: Jordan seems to be getting into a more even stride with his pacing but still relies on characters dreams for exposition which becomes quite irritating. Maybe that's a personal thing, I can never be bothered to hear about other people dreams. Perrin's constant whining about being involved is also irritating, he's an interesting character with interesting abilities but gets lost in denial way to much. Mat's story picks up and is fun, but how he became a Jedi master with a staff able to beat skilled swordsmen (lords), is a bit grating. At least Rand's learned skill is explained. Again the plots with the girls is largely distracting, but more evenly spread out. The last 3-4 chapters move quickly but the over reliance on dreams to resolve problems is gash.

    Just started book four.

    Overall I like the stories and characters and the details are, at times, incredible and at other times a drag. The pacing can go from wildly erratic to numbingly boring and, there are times when RJ disappears down rabbit holes explaining parts of history that leap out during ordinary conversation, so it feels forced. There are also times when exposition and pay off are too far apart, so where the plot is going becomes obvious in between, ie: the thief catcher talking about seeing people on the roofs of 'Tear' and us finding out they are Aiel becomes frustrating and generate a desire for RJ to get on with it. The books could probably be a bit shorter. Someone also needs to die, bad guys are dropping like flies while the good guys haven't lost one, yet.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Oh god tried to go advanced. Whatever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    Book chat.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Book Two: has a long section where the focus is on the girls being tricked out of Tar Valon and captured by the 'Seanchan.' That whole section, while important in setting up the battle outside Falme, dragged on way to long. Pace picks up a bit as the other characters come back into it, but the girls, at this stage are a distraction from the Dragon being reborn or the other characters stories being moved on. Rand hardly appears at all while Perrin and Mat spend most of the book wandering around without really getting anywhere. Mat because he's dying and Perrin because he doesn't seem to have anything better to do.

    Recently finished book three: Jordan seems to be getting into a more even stride with his pacing but still relies on characters dreams for exposition which becomes quite irritating. Maybe that's a personal thing, I can never be bothered to hear about other people dreams. Perrin's constant whining about being involved is also irritating, he's an interesting character with interesting abilities but gets lost in denial way to much. Mat's story picks up and is fun, but how he became a Jedi master with a staff able to beat skilled swordsmen (lords), is a bit grating. At least Rand's learned skill is explained. Again the plots with the girls is largely distracting, but more evenly spread out. The last 3-4 chapters move quickly but the over reliance on dreams to resolve problems is gash.

    Just started book four.

    Overall I like the stories and characters and the details are, at times, incredible and at other times a drag. The pacing can go from wildly erratic to numbingly boring and, there are times when RJ disappears down rabbit holes explaining parts of history that leap out during ordinary conversation, so it feels forced. There are also times when exposition and pay off are too far apart, so where the plot is going becomes obvious in between, ie: the thief catcher talking about seeing people on the roofs of 'Tear' and us finding out they are Aiel becomes frustrating and generate a desire for RJ to get on with it. The books could probably be a bit shorter. Someone also needs to die, bad guys are dropping like flies while the good guys haven't lost one, yet.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    It's nice to see someone actually reading the books instead of just ranting on them. And believe me. For all I read them there were a lot of parts I could sit here and spend an hour tearing them apart. About every three books the style of the books will change because the style of story will change. Watch for it. And as he got older his writing got...odder. But the story was there. The first three books had a hard and fast style that kind of drove what was happening to the world to the reader. The rest, well, I'll let you discover. But the styles of the story changed depending on what the characters were trying to do. Be ready for it.

    And, well, as far as some times him being incredible and other times him being a drag. Just know that I'm not really trying to compare him to, well...entertaining popcorn fantasy, nor at the same time fantasy literature. He's somewhere in the middle and does his own thing telling a story he wants to entertain people. Some think he's the GOAT. Others think he's got quite the few steps to reach even good. Just...well...he's told a story and quite the god damn few have liked it.

    Last edited by Gaidin; January 18, 2020 at 11:25 PM.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  9. #29
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    You're being just a little paranoid here man. This isn't really what you need to worry about turning the series to crap. What you need to worry about turning the series to crap is the sheer logistics of a 15 book series that has a 3 year timeline and how that's going to translate onto a real life film timeline. 3 years won't cut it. That in-world timeline is changing to account for actors growing older. Stop worrying about your politics. Start contemplating this series taking place over a quarter century and what it means in-world.
    Oh, believe me, I am mostly concerned about what would be cut. But The added insult of making Moraine a tall white blond woman, the Two Rivers people dark skinned, forced LGBT representation (as if there wasn't enough in the books) is something I can already complain about. I mean there is a ton of non-anglosaxon whites in the books with darkskinned southerners, black sea people, Asian-like Seanchan... a ton. The choice to turn Moraine to white and the Two Rivers to dark skinned is weird.
    And then, there's the statement of "The books were focused on Black and White (Which is why alhoon liked them in the today's torrent of gray). We will go with shades of gray despite the Author being quite clear in many of his interviews that he sees the major conflicts in his world but also a lot of the characters as black and white because like alhoon he doesn't like the nowdays shades of gray and wants to remind the readers that there's gray but there's also a lot of black and white."
    Last but not least from the already-here problems... the focus of the first season is on Moraine. :-/ Why? Because ... ehh... ? Probably because she has a vagina.
    I guess Harriet sold out or was put aside as these directly contradict the author's wishes.

    The series timeline being expanded somewhat is not a big concern I would say. It could be easily stretched to 6 years timeline instead of 3 and that could be covered in 8-9 seasons.
    What I am concerned with the increased timeline is:
    - That ageless people will age even if the show survives for 5-6 seasons, let alone 8-9
    - MOSTLY: what they will have to cut to fit 12000 pages in 80 episodes of 1 hour each. <=== that's the reason I am very pessimistic about the show.

    @conon:
    The Harry Potter books were adapted very well mostly. Did I like them as much as the books? Well, a book takes longer, it's deeper. So no, I didn't like them as much as the books. But it did the books justice.
    Lord of the Rings books were also adapted very well (mostly). Same as with HP, I didn't like all the choices but they were awesome movies that I think they did justice to the books.
    Game of Thrones Seasons 1-4 the same.

    And then, there's virtually every other transition to screen that I have watched that is somewhat (from little to a lot) disappointing.
    Last edited by alhoon; January 21, 2020 at 05:28 PM.
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  10. #30
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    So ends book four....

    The pacing is definately 100% better, you'd almost think RJ was earning how to compose a story that wasn't going to end in 10-15 books time, as he went. Sections end with either the conclusion to a notable event or set piece/reveal or on a cliff hanger. Some people hate that as the story jumps to another arc as it gets good, I don't mind that as long as we get back within a reasonable amount of pages and the bit between doesn't drag. Over all I'd say four is the best one so far.

    Spoiler for Book chat
    Still worries me that the good guys are all still standing, there's a couple of close calls, but as they invole central characters, in isolation, you know they will win out. The introduction of new dreams and new ways of getting around is still annoying, though amusing when I recall how badly GRRM was slaughtered for seeming transporting characters across Westros at the snap of his fingers.

    History: The origin of the Aiel was nicly brought into the story, rather than being plopped into a conversation or appearing from nowhere. Rand having to learn the past to rule was a nice touch and the forboding prophesy 'This man is destined to unite, destroy, and save a remnant of the Aiel' being open to interpritation (saw that coming) was worked in well.

    Battle tactics: Something that grated about GoT and so far WoT is the near total lack of anything beyond basic tactics. I get it, Trollocs are mindless beasts who have to be driven into battle, but Myrddraal are seemingly inteligent so surely they'd come up with something better than running into archers and stakes. The battle for the stone had some nice bits (sneaking a small army in via barges), hope there's more to battles than numbers in future. You'd think no fantasy writer ever played RTW..! And, people need to die. RJ touches on the horror of Trollocs eating people all through book four, then ignores the death's that must have happened in the defence of Emmond's field.

    Speaking of which, Perrin's arc, returning to the Two Rivers, was by far the most fun. I can see his story being intersting for awhile yet. Matt's tale has it's up's and downs. He really needs a purpose though, he seems to be just following Rand around and saying 'burn me' a lot. The girls story, hunting the Black Ajah wasn't as insufferable as it has been. Rand himself has grown in confidence and is starting to take on an air of knowing more than those around him, a trait of all good characters, though bringing rain to the three-fold was kind of telegraphed a few chapters earlier, at least he didn't come up with it in a dream first..

  11. #31

    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    So ends book four....

    The pacing is definately 100% better, you'd almost think RJ was earning how to compose a story that wasn't going to end in 10-15 books time, as he went. Sections end with either the conclusion to a notable event or set piece/reveal or on a cliff hanger. Some people hate that as the story jumps to another arc as it gets good, I don't mind that as long as we get back within a reasonable amount of pages and the bit between doesn't drag. Over all I'd say four is the best one so far.

    Spoiler for Book chat
    Matt's tale has it's up's and downs. He really needs a purpose though, he seems to be just following Rand around and saying 'burn me' a lot.
    Spoiler for Book
    I think you missed a bunch of Mat's symbolism that's starting to come out already. Like, as soon as he came out of the gateway already. You need not worry though. Book five will make it quite obvious.

    Have fun!
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  12. #32
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Battle Tactics
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Battle tactics: Something that grated about GoT and so far WoT is the near total lack of anything beyond basic tactics. I get it, Trollocs are mindless beasts who have to be driven into battle, but Myrddraal are seemingly inteligent so surely they'd come up with something better than running into archers and stakes. The battle for the stone had some nice bits (sneaking a small army in via barges), hope there's more to battles than numbers in future. You'd think no fantasy writer ever played RTW..! And, people need to die. RJ touches on the horror of Trollocs eating people all through book four, then ignores the death's that must have happened in the defence of Emmond's field.


    I recommend 'On the Possibility of Reconstructing Marathon and Other Ancient Battles' by Whatley

    The simple fact is before satellite or even field telephone all too many battles look more like who best avoided a cluster F, rather than some masterful strategy that survived contact with the enemy and went as planned, unless the balance of force and skill and technology was sort of a cheat.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  13. #33

    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    The simple fact is before satellite or even field telephone all too many battles look more like who best avoided a cluster F, rather than some masterful strategy that survived contact with the enemy and went as planned, unless the balance of force and skill and technology was sort of a cheat.
    This is probably why in all of Wheel of Time current reading there are only five Generals(read: Captains) that are considered “Great”. Not to say others aren’t competent but when nations need done they know where to go.

    And yes I can go into this historically.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  14. #34
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    This is probably why in all of Wheel of Time current reading there are only five Generals(read: Captains) that are considered “Great”. Not to say others aren’t competent but when nations need done they know where to go.

    And yes I can go into this historically.
    Yes I kinda did appreciate the Great Captain thing when I started the books.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  15. #35
    King Athelstan's Avatar The Wheel Weaves
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    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    I'm currently on Lord of Chaos, though haven't had time to read for a couple of weeks and I'm just afraid I'll loose track of where I am. I am very fond of it, but I think it's just that I'm getting worse at keeping up my reading habits in general. As for the TV show, I'm hopeful. I don't dare expect anything amazing, but it should be good enough and have the "feel" at least. Hopefully. And hey, can't be worse than the last seasons of GoT, eh?
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  16. #36
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Quote Originally Posted by King Athelstan View Post
    I'm currently on Lord of Chaos, though haven't had time to read for a couple of weeks and I'm just afraid I'll loose track of where I am. I am very fond of it, but I think it's just that I'm getting worse at keeping up my reading habits in general. As for the TV show, I'm hopeful. I don't dare expect anything amazing, but it should be good enough and have the "feel" at least. Hopefully. And hey, can't be worse than the last seasons of GoT, eh?
    I give the GoT producers a bit of break its pretty clear really GRRM has no ideal how to end his books. I know the last WoT was written by a guest author on notes (just the last right) but even when Jorden meandered into new world building on the fly, he seemed to have the end game in sight. Book lovers will always be likely offended at cuts, compression and alterations but at least the adapters have a finished story to work with.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  17. #37
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Meeeeeh... Leanne (Siuan's Keeper) became an Asian now. Seriously, with all those Asians I wonder how they will tell Seanchan apart from the various characters. Or how they will make the Sea Folk different from the various black people I expect them to introduce at random places. Or, since Rand is suddenly looking like a white Englishman*, how they will say "He's Aiel actually, never mind that he is white". Or how they justified turning Moraine, a short, Dark-haired young woman looking like a Levantine or East Mediterranean to a tall blond white woman.

    I mean, if they had to go SJW route, they COULD keep the non-whites as they were, couldn't they? Rand is not Anglosaxon, Moraine is not Anglosaxon.



    *Yes, I know Rand had more white skin according to the book than the rest of the pack. That was IMO a mistake. Andorans were "Tanned white" as far as I recall, and Two Rivers folk about the same. As such a half-desert-people person SHOULD have been darker, else his parents would evaporate in the Waste.

    Quote Originally Posted by King Athelstan View Post
    And hey, can't be worse than the last seasons of GoT, eh?
    That's a pretty low bar though. I don't expect something as good as the FIRST season of GoT or the first Lord of the Rings movie, but I would be really sad if it goes as low as fast.

    In the end, I can leave with different-color people than in the books - or how they should be in the books - but if they mess up important plotlines or change characters to make them more yoke, like changing the focus of the first season to Moraine instead of the actual protagonists, I would be annoyed.
    Last edited by alhoon; April 13, 2020 at 05:40 PM.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
    _______________________________________________________
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  18. #38

    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    I give the GoT producers a bit of break its pretty clear really GRRM has no ideal how to end his books. I know the last WoT was written by a guest author on notes (just the last right) but even when Jorden meandered into new world building on the fly, he seemed to have the end game in sight. Book lovers will always be likely offended at cuts, compression and alterations but at least the adapters have a finished story to work with.
    Robert Jordan had "1 book" left, but there was so much story to it that it literally took three huge-ass books to write it.

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Meeeeeh... Leanne (Siuan's Keeper) became an Asian now. Seriously, with all those Asians I wonder how they will tell Seanchan apart from the various characters. Or how they will make the Sea Folk different from the various black people I expect them to introduce at random places. Or, since Rand is suddenly looking like a white Englishman*, how they will say "He's Aiel actually, never mind that he is white". Or how they justified turning Moraine, a short, Dark-haired young woman looking like a Levantine or East Mediterranean to a tall blond white woman.

    I mean, if they had to go SJW route, they COULD keep the non-whites as they were, couldn't they? Rand is not Anglosaxon, Moraine is not Anglosaxon.
    Here's Tuon:


    Here's Suroth:


    Now, Seanchan is a big enough place that you can go all over the place with their descriptions. But with at least the Empress's family proper and not just the Blood, you're apparently getting something that were I to just put a "looks-like" description on it from across the ocean? More Central-African.

    Here's a general cultural description of Saldaea:
    Saldaeans have bold, prominent noses and slightly upturned, almond-shaped eyes. While as ferocious in battle as any of the Border nations, their equestrian skills are undoubtedly superior; no other nation in Randland can match Saldaea for her famed and effective use of light cavalry. Saldaean soldiers often carry serpentine swords. Saldaean men usually have long mustaches.


    Another important part of Saldaean life is the sa'sara, a dance outlawed by several Saldaean queens for its indecency. While known by virtually every noblewoman, few would ever admit to the knowledge. Apparently, the sa'sara has the ability to drive men wild. The sa'sara is known to have started three wars and sparked two rebellions, among many other smaller disturbances.

    On Leanne:
    She has the copper skin of a Domani, and is thin and nearly as tall as a man. She is willowy, graceful, and beautiful. When Min meets her at Tar Valon, she describes her hair straight, dark and only a little longer than Min's own hair.


    She lost her ageless look after being stilled, and looked about 23 years old.

    Now, those are more the official descriptions and interpretive pictures. If you think a copper-skinned person shouldn't be played by an Asian speak up and point somewhere. Let's hear your solution. But I'm tired of your useless whining.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  19. #39
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Robert Jordan had "1 book" left, but there was so much story to it that it literally took three huge-ass books to write it.


    Here's Tuon:


    Here's Suroth:


    Now, Seanchan is a big enough place that you can go all over the place with their descriptions. But with at least the Empress's family proper and not just the Blood, you're apparently getting something that were I to just put a "looks-like" description on it from across the ocean? More Central-African.

    Here's a general cultural description of Saldaea:
    Saldaeans have bold, prominent noses and slightly upturned, almond-shaped eyes. While as ferocious in battle as any of the Border nations, their equestrian skills are undoubtedly superior; no other nation in Randland can match Saldaea for her famed and effective use of light cavalry. Saldaean soldiers often carry serpentine swords. Saldaean men usually have long mustaches.


    Another important part of Saldaean life is the sa'sara, a dance outlawed by several Saldaean queens for its indecency. While known by virtually every noblewoman, few would ever admit to the knowledge. Apparently, the sa'sara has the ability to drive men wild. The sa'sara is known to have started three wars and sparked two rebellions, among many other smaller disturbances.

    On Leanne:
    She has the copper skin of a Domani, and is thin and nearly as tall as a man. She is willowy, graceful, and beautiful. When Min meets her at Tar Valon, she describes her hair straight, dark and only a little longer than Min's own hair.


    She lost her ageless look after being stilled, and looked about 23 years old.

    Now, those are more the official descriptions and interpretive pictures. If you think a copper-skinned person shouldn't be played by an Asian speak up and point somewhere. Let's hear your solution. But I'm tired of your useless whining.
    First, that pic is taking liberties with Tuon. "Dark" doesn't mean that dark. She was probably similar to Indonesians or dark-skinned Asians. On the other hand, the picture of Suroth also seems off, Suroth was probably as dark as Tuon, not pale. I.e. those artistic representations don't fit the narrative very well - or are not the only way to interpret the narrative.

    Second, exactly as you said: Copper-skinned Domani. Asians are not copper-skinned. They should have gone with a Mexican.
    I don't know why your brought up Saldaeans.

    Third: If you're tired of my well-deserved criticism of very weird casting choices, nobody forces you reply.
    Last edited by alhoon; April 14, 2020 at 12:03 AM.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
    _______________________________________________________
    Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.
    Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
    Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).

  20. #40

    Default Re: Wheel of Time: TV show - (Books in spoilers).

    I put up saldaeans because they’re right next door. What. You think the world gonna turn white across an invisible diplomatic line?
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

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