Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21

Thread: Does authority, cunning and zeal work in your game? (WoS/IA)

  1. #1

    Icon5 Does authority, cunning and zeal work in your game? (WoS/IA)

    Hello,

    I recently noticed a huge bug that I haven't seen mentioned before and I really wonder if you guys can reproduce it.

    So in the Wrath of Sparta DLC it seems like the attributes (authority, cunning, zeal) do not affect the generals. In particular, for example, increasing the zeal of a Spartan general will not increase the weapon damage of his bodyguard unit (Royal Spartans). All other factions of the DLC are affected too.

    The same happens to the Roman factions in Imperator Augustus, but not to the rest (Armenia, Dacia, Marcomanni are fine for example).

    I tried to check whether authority works but I couldn't measure the general's aura correctly so I am not sure. I don't use any mods btw.


    Can someone please confirm this bug? I really wonder why it hasn't been mentioned before.

    Here are some screenshots attached
    Note how much zeal Pausanias has (6) and he does get no bonus in weapon damage. But in Grand Campaign the bonus works fine.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails screen1.jpg   screen2.jpg  
    Last edited by Leonardo; November 25, 2019 at 06:08 AM. Reason: Posts merged.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Does authority, cunning and zeal work in your game? (WoS/IA)

    Here are screenshots from Imperator Augustus. Octavian and all Roman generals are bugged , except when they are admirals for some reason. Admirals do get the weapon damage bonus. Generals don't get the bonus neither when their bodyguard is Legatus nor Veteran Legionaires.

    Can someone else verify this too?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails screen3.jpg   screen4.jpg  

  3. #3

    Default Re: Does authority, cunning and zeal work in your game? (WoS/IA)

    Are you sure you don't have any mods active?

  4. #4

    Default Re: Does authority, cunning and zeal work in your game? (WoS/IA)

    Yes , I have never installed a mod actually. Do you have the DLC? Can you check if this happens to you too?

    As I wrote above, it happens for Wrath of Sparta, Imperator Augustus (Roman factions) and just found out the bug exists in Ceasar in Gaul too (only for Rome)

    Here are some more screenshots, from Ceasar in Gaul. I show how the Romans are bugged (Julius Ceasar) but a Suebi bodyguard unit gets the weapon damage bonus from general's zeal just fine. Grand Campaign works fine.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails screen5.jpg   screen6.jpg   screen7.jpg   screen8.jpg  
    Last edited by Leonardo; November 25, 2019 at 06:09 AM. Reason: Posts merged.

  5. #5
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    apartment 6
    Posts
    4,055

    Default Re: Does authority, cunning and zeal work in your game? (WoS/IA)

    The table governing this feature is the "campaign_character_attribute_effects_tables"
    It has entries for faction, subculture and campaign but since they are mostly empty, by logic, they should work everywhere. Or maybe CA forgot to apply something into thei haedcoded files.
    If that bug is true (and is not a thing coming from some weirdities into your pc/game) try to do new entries into "campaign_character_attribute_effects_tables" and put specific campaign entries.
    I've personally moddded that tab (for my TESTUDO submod for DeI - GC only -) and never seen anything weird

    Honestly, I've opened the dlc campaigns just to see how the map was, never plyed a single turn so I can't tell anything about.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Does authority, cunning and zeal work in your game? (WoS/IA)

    Thanks for answering!
    Yes I took a look into this table. Everything seems to be correct and all the weapon damage, general's aura, etc bonuses apply just fine in Grand Campaign.

    The bug is confirmed by one other person so far.
    I had never ever used any mods when I first found this bug and also performed a file check, so it probably is a genuine bug, just one that people didn't really notice.

    But now that I decided to check this bug personally, I tried a few roster expansion mods to see if the new bodyguard units are affected in GC. And yes, while the official units receive the bonuses, the bodyguard units added by the modder do not. (I checked this with multiple Sebidee's roster expansions). So I believe it has something to do with individual units. Maybe CA created units for these DLCs and forgot to add the effects of authority, cunning, zeal on the bodyguard? I don't even know.

  7. #7
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    apartment 6
    Posts
    4,055

    Default Re: Does authority, cunning and zeal work in your game? (WoS/IA)

    About the bug list you've posted here https://forums.totalwar.com/discussi...ec-2019#latest
    (I never bothered talking with CA, so I'm posting into TWC)

    Keep in mind that I've never played the vanilla game a single turn 'cause its gameplay it is surely a crap imho
    It is years I play just modded videogames and don't bother with vanilla's ones

    -> Don't expect that CA will correct those bugs

    1. The effect of some (starting) skills is not applied. Examples are “Felicitas” (construction cost decrease is bugged), “Fortitude” (military construction cost decrease is bugged). Example shown in pictures A1a-A1b. Bug affects multiple cultures and a handful of skills that I was not able to track all of them.
    Should be doable inside export_triggers.lua

    2. Many household items/ancillaries appear in the notifications as gained but the item is not actually gained. Examples: “Priest of Seth” and many others. Most of them are quite useful and would be great if they were fixed.

    Yeah, known and old, we've tried many ways but it seems there is no stable solution

    3. AI never assumes the Ambush Stance, which removes an important and fun gameplay/immersive aspect.
    This I don't know

    4. The military access pact signed between a faction X and overlord should be automatically signed between faction X and overlord’s satrapies (as happens in TW: Attila)

    Should be doable via script, not so easy though

    1. Cydamus (in Phazania) is missing the leather resource building (Tannery Village) while the resource’s visual animations are visible on the map. The resource is available on Imperator Augustus and Empire Divided maps.
    Moddable but I never messed up with resources so I can't tell you how to do (check DeI tables and see how resources have been modded)

    2. Nomadic tribes have access to the “Meeting ground” building chain (branch of the warrior lodge) which gives bonuses to infantry recruits. Please change the bonuses so that they will now provide a more appropriate bonus to these cavalry/archery oriented factions.
    Moddable into "building_effects_junction_tables"

    3. The Champion of Kush should have the same appearance as Egypt’s Champion
    should be moddable through some model/skin table

    4. Shrine/Temple of Hermes is not available any more.

    you can add the buildings you want, you can mod that

    3. Iron resource bug: the bonuses of the building “Colony (Armorer)” should be swapped with the bonuses of the building “Town (Blacksmith)” (see pictures C2a, C2b)
    yuo can mod that

    2. “Hero of the army” trait will be shown as received by a general in a notification but there will be no trait nor effect on the said general.
    Should be doable inside export_triggers.lua

    5. Obsolete traits: Many traits or skills are just a copy from Grand Campaign. For example, since there is no cultural conversion in WoS the trait of the picture C5 is obsolete and take up slots where more useful traits could be received. Also, some other traits/skills may not work
    always inside export_triggers.lua

    All the other points have more or less the same solution of simialr bugs
    the 3d bugs (object interpolations and animations) should be fixable but I never modded 3d things so I can't advice you

    -----

    May I suggest you something?
    Close the vanilla game and use a mod, no one is perfect but at least it has not all those bugs
    Last edited by Jake Armitage; December 04, 2019 at 12:26 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Does authority, cunning and zeal work in your game? (WoS/IA)

    Since I find new affected units every day, these are the affected so far:

    Roman generals of Imperator Augustus (Admirals receive the bonuses)
    Roman generals and admirals of Caesar in Gaul
    ALL generals and admirals of Wrath of Sparta
    ALL generals and admirals of Empire Divided

    All other campaigns/units receive the bonuses.

    And check this out. In IA Octavian's bodyguard is bugged as I said earlier, which means no matter how high his authority or zeal is, there will be no aura size or weapon damage bonus. But the unit Legatus is different in IA. It is called Emp_Rom_Legatus while GC's version is called Rom_Legatus. So I used the GC's version in Imperator Augustus and Octavian's bodyguard did receive the bonus with GC's version!!!

  9. #9
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    apartment 6
    Posts
    4,055

    Default Re: Does authority, cunning and zeal work in your game? (WoS/IA)

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasios55 View Post
    But now that I decided to check this bug personally, I tried a few roster expansion mods to see if the new bodyguard units are affected in GC. And yes, while the official units receive the bonuses, the bodyguard units added by the modder do not. (I checked this with multiple Sebidee's roster expansions). So I believe it has something to do with individual units. Maybe CA created units for these DLCs and forgot to add the effects of authority, cunning, zeal on the bodyguard? I don't even know.
    The bug into DLC campaigns is just for bodyguards units or every unit?
    Keep in mind that BG units (assigned through the "commander_unit_permissions_tables") are somehow buggy.
    We encountered weird results with DeI reform system so there is surely soemthing hardcoded defining something we don't know.

    And check this out. In IA Octavian's bodyguard is bugged as I said earlier, which means no matter how high his authority or zeal is, there will be no aura size or weapon damage bonus. But the unit Legatus is different in IA. It is called Emp_Rom_Legatus while GC's version is called Rom_Legatus. So I used the GC's version in Imperator Augustus and Octavian's bodyguard did receive the bonus with GC's version!!!
    Classic unknown weirdity

  10. #10

    Default Re: Does authority, cunning and zeal work in your game? (WoS/IA)

    Yes the bug affects the bodyguard units and the bonuses from authority, cunning and zeal. I have pictures of 6 and 10 zeal generals that receive no weapon damage bonus for example. The bonuses from other sources like army traditions apply just fine.

    Another example is that I tried to add Aspis Companion Cavalry as a bodyguard unit to Macedon and yes the unit does not receive the weapon damage bonus. While a vanilla bodyguard (for example Royal Peltasts) always receives it.

    BTW thanks for the awesome tips above. I appreciate them and I will try to create something nice and share it.

  11. #11
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    apartment 6
    Posts
    4,055

    Default Re: Does authority, cunning and zeal work in your game? (WoS/IA)

    Good luck
    Consider if you want to have a less crappy vanilla game or if you wanna mod an already done mod before starting.
    I would suggest the second but that's obviously my opinion and the route I personally choosed.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Does authority, cunning and zeal work in your game? (WoS/IA)

    Here is a screenshot of Octavian using the bugged Emp_Rom_Vet_Legionaries. With zeal = 7 his weapon damage bonus should be 42 not 35.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	zeal1.jpg 
Views:	7 
Size:	100.0 KB 
ID:	360107Click image for larger version. 

Name:	zeal2.jpg 
Views:	5 
Size:	101.4 KB 
ID:	360108

    I also have picture from a general with authority = 1 that has the same size of aura as a authority = 6 general (I think you saw the screens in the other thread)

    On the other hand army traditions apply the bonuses just fine, both to army units and the bugged bodyguards.

  13. #13
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    apartment 6
    Posts
    4,055

    Default Re: Does authority, cunning and zeal work in your game? (WoS/IA)

    - save the game
    - mod the "campaign_character_attribute_effects_tables" with really high values
    - reload, skip 1 turn and see if something changes

  14. #14

    Default Re: Does authority, cunning and zeal work in your game? (WoS/IA)

    ok doing it now

  15. #15

    Default Re: Does authority, cunning and zeal work in your game? (WoS/IA)

    Here is a screenshot of the values I changed

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	zealtest1.jpg 
Views:	5 
Size:	84.5 KB 
ID:	360109

    At zeal 4 the general's unit should receive +50% weapon damage.

    Unfortunately the bugged units of Imperator Augustus are still bugged.

    But when I used Rom_Legatus instead of Emp_Rom_Legatus, I got the bonus of course since Rom_Legatus is from Grand Campaign and not the bugged version

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	zealtest2.jpg 
Views:	10 
Size:	113.3 KB 
ID:	360110

  16. #16
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    apartment 6
    Posts
    4,055

    Default Re: Does authority, cunning and zeal work in your game? (WoS/IA)

    it reminds me of this song
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHE7c3aG33g
    I'll post that into DeI devs forum, see if Dresden knows something and if we have the same problem (probably yes and no one ever noticed)

  17. #17

    Default Re: Does authority, cunning and zeal work in your game? (WoS/IA)

    Ok so Jake Armitage solved the problem in another post. If anyone is interested the solution lies in the data_rome2.pack/db/unit_set_to_unit_junctions. Every bodyguard unit must be there, with its "unit_set" value set at "bodyguard_units_generals" if the unit is land unit or "bodyguard_units_admiral" if it is naval, in order to receive bonuses from authority, cunning and zeal.

    I plan to create a mod that adds all the bodyguards of all DLC's that are missing. I have never ever made any mods (Until now I just tested small stuff changing values directly in the pack and clicking save) so I do not know how. I will read the tutorials but if someone has any advice I would be grateful! I plan to upload in Steam's workshop.

  18. #18
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
    Content Director Patrician Citizen

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    9,414

    Default Re: Does authority, cunning and zeal work in your game? (WoS/IA)

    Thanks for discovering this issue and reporting the solution!

    Good luck with your mod! You probably know this already - my suggestion is to work slowly, change one entry at a time in your mod file, testing it in-game before the next edit - or doing a small number of edits at each stage (edit, save, test and repeat this process), rather than changing everything in one go. Otherwise, it's easy in my experience, to make 20 or 30 edits to a mod file and then to struggle to find which one caused a crash.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Does authority, cunning and zeal work in your game? (WoS/IA)

    Sure thing, ok! There is a saying in Greek in loose translation: "the man who is in a hurry is going to stumble". And indeed I can't practically rush it

    What I am working on now is I am trying to understand the unit_set_to_unit_junctions table better because the problematic units have usually multiple entries missing. The Emp_Rom_Legatus (this is its Main Unit Key) for example is missing both the value "bodyguard_units_generals" and "melee_unit_spears" under "unit_set" column so I must study and compare all these units to figure out what other entries are missing. But I don't really know whether I should do that in the first place because its "Land Unit Key" is "Rom_Legatus" and is at first glance identical to the (perfectly working) "Rom_Legatus" (Main Unit Key) in stats, appearance, etc. But it is a different unit. If you add Rom_Legatus as a general to Imperator Augustus you are going to have two different units available, both named Legatus in-game.

    So seems like the "unit_record" column requires the "Main Unit Key" of the unit in order for the entry to take effect. There are so many things to learn before proceeding

  20. #20

    Default Re: Does authority, cunning and zeal work in your game? (WoS/IA)

    *correction: not "two different units available" but "two separate but identical units available"

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •