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Thread: The King...

  1. #21
    LaMuerte's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: The King...

    Quote Originally Posted by Morifea View Post
    If I leave my books to watch a Movie, I want to be entertained, not to watch englishmen shi**** their souls out.
    Aw come on. Throw the French a bone...

  2. #22

    Default Re: The King...

    Quote Originally Posted by Morifea View Post
    If I leave my books to watch a Movie, I want to be entertained, not to watch englishmen shi**** their souls out.
    But that's entertaining.
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  3. #23

    Default Re: The King...

    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail View Post
    I enjoyed the tone and aesthetics of the film, but the depiction of the king was peculiar and the battle was disappointing. For some reason the role of the longbowmen was largely ignored and the English use of stakes to impede the French cavalry was missing entirely. The melee engagement (which is the focus of the fight) started promisingly, but almost immediately degenerated into a disorganized brawl in the mud. The film's most significant shortcoming, however, was its failure to exploit the main emotional appeal of the battle of Agincourt - that of the tenacious underdog taking on the odds and coming out on top. The Zulu moment I'd been hoping for did not materialize. Instead we are treated to bizarre meetings between the Dauphine and Henry which begin with a nonsensical midnight trolling and end with an entire battle being put on hold to facilitate a ridiculous duel.

    6/10.
    Keep in mind that the King is essentially a retelling of the Shakespeare play, and the Shakespeare play was not entirely historically accurate, to put it mildly. Since bowmen did not figure in the play nether did they in this movie.

    I think some of the other peculiarities you noted we're because the film was more influenced by the play than actual history.

  4. #24
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: The King...

    Good point. ^

  5. #25
    Cope's Avatar Have you no decency?
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    Default Re: The King...

    Quote Originally Posted by Common Soldier View Post
    Keep in mind that the King is essentially a retelling of the Shakespeare play, and the Shakespeare play was not entirely historically accurate, to put it mildly. Since bowmen did not figure in the play nether did they in this movie.

    I think some of the other peculiarities you noted we're because the film was more influenced by the play than actual history.
    Shakespeare's telling didn't just exploit the emotional appeal of the Hundred Year War, it practically invented it. The St. Crispin's Day and Harfleur speeches are among the best and most famous romanticizations of war in the history of literature. I would even go as far as to say that they're at the heart of English patriotism itself. This film is spiritually flat by comparison.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: The King...

    The movie was solid in several technical aspects, also dialogue (except whenever the "French" were partaking) and I would have liked the general dark and bleak tone, but it had waaaaaay too much nationalist propaganda to me.

    Also aside from the childish nationalism: The dauphin was so completely comically over the tops evil villain it would have been funny and good in a different movie, but here it was a total clash with what the rest tried to achieve.

    I wouldn't give this movie a better grade than 7. The outlaw king was much better, even though "The King" was obviously copying this movie as much as possible it failed to do so well.
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  7. #27
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: The King...

    This movie was terrible.

    1. It was ing boring. Actually the whole beginning part especially, before Henry becomes king, is really boring.

    2. It claims to be historical but the heraldry and certain other details like that weren't right.

    3. It claims to be historical but then for no reason decided to mix Shakespearean plays with history. But in a way that it doesn't do one or the other particularly well... why didn't they just stick to one?

    4. Henry isn't a very interesting character. I don't even think his portrayal is accurate to the history. Henry is really boring; just sort of sits around, speaks in a monotone voice and does... things. Really not sure what sort of character they were going for.

    5. Henry is a scrawny punk who can apparently defeat everyone in a duel. Remember when Henry killed Hotspur Percy in a duel? Wait that actually never happened and Hotspur Percy died in the battle of Shrewsbury? Wow if I went by this movie there was no battle at Shrewsbury. You know, WHERE HENRY WAS HIT IN THE FACE BY AN ARROW, REQUIRED A SERIOUS SURGERY, NEARLY DIED AND BECAME TRAUMATIZED??? You would think this was an important character moment or something.

    6. Henry kills the Dauphin in a duel??? WTF??? The Dauphin actually died from dysentery or something. Neither Dauphin Louis nor Charles VI were at Agincourt, they were at Rouen.

    7. The depiction of Agincourt is the most boring depiction of a battle that I have ever seen. Also no context for the actual battle, compare it to say Gettysburg or Waterloo where the battle is an important centerpiece, has stakes and some kind of importance. In this? Just CGI knights fighting each other from a distance, so exciting.

    8. The drunk knight guy from the Shakespeare play has an arc but it was not memorable and I can't remember what that arc was exactly. He was an unimportant pauper? Then he gets rejected by Henry? Then he comes to the court? He was depressed or something? Then he dies at Agincourt, I don't remember if they even showed him die.

    9. Henry wins at Agincourt and then the whole thing is resolved? Except that isn't even what happened historically, the whole Agincourt campaign was a near failure (which I think they implied) and was only saved by the English winning the battle. Had it not been for giving battle the French very well would have won, or forced Henry into a costly stalemate, or even disorganized his army while Henry attempted to march to Calais. Actually I find it funny how Agincourt was practically the exact same battle and under the same circumstances as Crecy and Poitiers, but the French didn't even learn their lesson. Every single time they had their enemy by the balls and for no reason decided to give battle, and give battle in the exact same manner all three times.

    10. Henry marries the French princess, the end. Was this meant to be a happy ending? But they don't even show that Henry actually dies fairly young, is succeeded by his mentally handicapped toddler and the French continue to contest English claims on the continent.
    Last edited by Lord Oda Nobunaga; December 20, 2019 at 01:31 PM.

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  8. #28
    Cope's Avatar Have you no decency?
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    Default Re: The King...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
    10. Henry marries the French princess, the end. Was this meant to be a happy ending? But they don't even show that Henry actually dies fairly young, is succeeded by his mentally handicapped toddler and the French continue to contest English claims on the continent.
    Didn't you know that English history was paused in 1415 and recommenced in 1509?

  9. #29
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: The King...

    Looking at the Hundred Years War... English history is literally rigged to make the English feel good. The English lost the war and would have lost sooner if the French didn't keep falling for the same trick.

    Even judging by some of these victories like Crecy and Poitiers, the English had to make concessions. From those two battles they managed to get the larger part of Gascony/Aquitaine but not the loyalty of the local barons and then eventually lost much of it. Agincourt is different in that it allowed the English to grab key castles. But I'm sure that the difference in technology from 1337 to 1415 was a key factor. Also the Anglo-Burgundian alliance which created a disparity in power between the two sides. Henry V was successful while he was alive, perhaps would have continued to be successful had he not died so early, but his success was tenuous at best. As the earlier campaigns of Edward III, the Black Prince, and all of them proved.

    I'm not sure if the War of the Roses gets much coverage. Henry VIII is a popular topic for whatever reason. But the Elizabeth movies were pretty bad. I don't think English history gets much after that, I've never seen a movie about James VI for example. Not too many about the Georgians either. I guess the Hundred Years War is popular because it has a common theme of English armies rampaging on the continent, for once, rather than being invaded by foreigners.
    Last edited by Lord Oda Nobunaga; December 21, 2019 at 08:42 PM.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  10. #30
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    Default Re: The King...

    2. It claims to be historical but the heraldry and certain other details like that weren't right.
    I know there were quite a number of inaccuracies, but you have to acknowledge how histerical this comment is.

    I ain't jokin' when it comes to mah paintings ಠ_ಠ

  11. #31
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: The King...

    Quote Originally Posted by saxdude View Post
    I know there were quite a number of inaccuracies, but you have to acknowledge how histerical this comment is.
    Sure, but if they're going to claim that they got all sorts of historians to advise them and made a movie with accurate details, they could at least get this bit right.

    At this point I think people expect this type of pedantic detail in historical movies. We suffered so many decades under the thumb of inaccurate movies. Gross inaccuracies like belt buckles, wrong types of armor, inaccurate flags or heraldry, incorrect weaponry etc. They could and should get this correct. Imagine seeing a movie about the Hundred Years War and instead of the lion and fleur banners they only had the old lion banner. Do you know how triggering this is?

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  12. #32
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    Default Re: The King...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
    At this point I think people expect this type of pedantic detail in historical movies. We suffered so many decades under the thumb of inaccurate movies.
    I've yet to see a single movie that has set any standard of the sort.

    Sure, but if they're going to claim that they got all sorts of historians to advise them and made a movie with accurate details, they could at least get this bit right.
    Alas we both know it's only for the cred. A mate of mine is advising the spanish side of an Amazon production of the conquest of the Aztec empire headed by Javier Bardem, called Mexica. Time will tell if ye ol Lindybeige was right about hollywood.

    I ain't jokin' when it comes to mah paintings ಠ_ಠ

  13. #33
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: The King...

    Outlaw King was surprisingly accurate in that regard. There are probably others... maybe Kingdom of Heaven wasn't bad there, I'm not sure.

    The issue with "The King" is that it claims to be accurate and have all sorts of great advisers and such... But then makes blatant mistakes, I'm not sure if some of it was intentional but it was noticeable.

    Everyone had a fit when Braveheart came out. Why do they have blue paint? Why are they using zweihanders? Why do they have belt buckles? Why do they have kilts? Why is there no bridge at Stirling Bridge? etc etc
    There were a lot of pedantic complaints even for Braveheart. We should hold all these movies to the same standard.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  14. #34
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    Default Re: The King...

    The main inaccuracy of Outlaw King was that they combined two battles into one at the end. Other than that I agree. It seemed well researched and done. I say that as someone who has absolutely no knowledge and should not say that.
    Quote Originally Posted by saxdude View Post
    Time will tell if ye ol Lindybeige was right about hollywood.
    Uh is that someone we're supposed to know?!
    Last edited by Cookiegod; December 23, 2019 at 02:11 AM.
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  15. #35
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: The King...

    I had criticisms of Outlaw King, but it was still a better movie than The King.
    If not because of historical reasons then at the very least because it was a more enjoyable movie. The King was so boring that I had trouble paying attention.

    Maybe you should know Lindy Beige if you're a history nerd that often goes on YouTube. He is a YouTuber who makes videos about history where he rambles for about 20 minutes. Since he has experience as an actor he knows something about how these movies or projects are put together.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  16. #36
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: The King...

    Bottom line. It could have been better, it could have been worse.

    I'm looking at you Vikings......

  17. #37

    Default Re: The King...

    Why are the French always the arrogant-yet-pussies-when-it-comes-to-fighting villains in medieval themed movies/tv series, weren't they the strongest nation of Christendom after ~800 AD? Is there any film or series that portrays them in positive light?
    "Blessed is he who learns how to engage in inquiry, with no impulse to hurt his countrymen or to pursue wrongful actions, but perceives the order of the immortal and ageless nature, how it is structured."
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    "This is the disease of curiosity. It is this which drives to try and discover the secrets of nature, those secrets which are beyond our understanding, which avails us nothing and which man should not wish to learn."
    Augustine

  18. #38
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: The King...

    There is a movie called Timeline where the French were the good guys and the English were the arrogant and belligerent baddies. Although that movie kinda sucks.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  19. #39
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: The King...

    This guy goes over it quite well.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD22D423U5Q

    How could I forget the stupid subplot with Henry IV and Prince Thomas, that was so damn stupid.

    Shad is also right about the War, Henry V was adamant about reclaiming Gascony/Aquitaine. Somehow this escalated into his claiming the throne of France but I think he was just riding his success of Agincourt.

    Shad also goes over some of the incorrect armor and stuff. It was worse than I thought.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

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