Keystone Pipeline Leaks 383,000 Gallons of Oil

[Vanoi]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/keystone-...232244628.html

The Keystone pipeline system, an addition to which has been the subject of environmental protests for years, leaked about 383,000 gallons of crude oil in North Dakota, covering an estimated half-acre of wetland, state environmental regulators said.

The spill, which has been contained, occurred in a low-gradient drainage area near the small town of Edinburg in northeast North Dakota, less than 50 miles from the Canadian border, according to Karl Rockeman, the director of the state Department of Environmental Quality’s division of water quality.

It looks like the Keystone Pipeline has leaked out a lot of oil in North Dakota. The Keystone Pipeline was delayed due to the Obama administration but was greenlit when Trump came into office.

With the enviorment being a major issue this election this leak doesn't bode well for Trump.

[Coughdrop addict]

Just have Hannity tell the Trump supporters that crude oil is good for the environment and great for their drinking water. They'll believe it.

[Love Mountain]

It was contained and it's only half an acre. That's the good news I suppose. Probably could've been much worse but Idk, I'm not into earth sciences.

[B. W.]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/keystone-...232244628.html



It looks like the Keystone Pipeline has leaked out a lot of oil in North Dakota. The Keystone Pipeline was delayed due to the Obama administration but was greenlit when Trump came into office.

With the enviorment being a major issue this election this leak doesn't bode well for Trump.

Are you kidding me? That amount over a half acre is nothing. Pipelines leak all the time and it is always caught when there is only a small leak like this. They are constantly monitored by aircraft. That's how most armature pilots get hours accumulated.

The Democrats wanted to haul it in by rail. Can you imagine what a mile long train derailment would do?

This is just another example of liberals crying and whining without any real world experience and simply don't know anything about what they are talking about.

[Love Mountain]

Are you kidding me? That amount over a half acre is nothing. Pipelines leak all the time and it is always caught when there is only a small leak like this. They are constantly monitored by aircraft. That's how most armature pilots get hours accumulated.

The Democrats wanted to haul it in by rail. Can you imagine what a mile long train derailment would do?

This is just another example of liberals crying and whining without any real world experience and simply don't know anything about what they are talking about.

300-400 thousand gallons of oil is like 10 rail cars. I'm also not sure what a big deal about a "mile long derailment" is. Damage to the environment is a much more serious issue than people being late to work for a day. Also, define "all the time". How often do pipeline leaks over 150,000 gallons occur? And if they do, how is that not a justification for not wanting a pipeline built? If you weren't trying so hard to be clever, you might've realized how self-defeating your statement actually is.

[Bob69Joe]

Trump doesn't bode well for China or unions. Feel the Power LiUNA https://www.liuna.org/Keystone-XL-Pipeline That's just one of many unions, all taking their share of the government tax revenues. "...project is currently in limbo pending the results of administrative reviews." That's not recent to the pipeline, but let it be known that unions are a parasite on your taxes, American.

Let them investigate the breakdown of the pipeline, surely avoiding any hint at union embezzlement, or when, as we're further seeing since the 90s, interests in promoting political diversity in contracting take over from skilled workers for affirmative action. Surely China, unions, and affirmative action are not hampering American industrial autonomy, but it's Trump who is deregulating and getting China out of our institutions, our markets, and the lobbying of Democrats and neo-cons.

Bullet points:

• China
• Unions
• Civil Rights and Affirmative Action
• Trump

Out of the above, which are ​not limiting the autonomy of businesses and the employers?

[Love Mountain]

Trump doesn't bode well for China or unions. Feel the Power LiUNA https://www.liuna.org/Keystone-XL-Pipeline That's just one of many unions, all taking their share of the government tax revenues. "...project is currently in limbo pending the results of administrative reviews." That's not recent to the pipeline, but let it be known that unions are a parasite on your taxes, American.

If Unions are a parasite on American taxes, then so is Lockheed Martin.

Let them investigate the breakdown of the pipeline, surely avoiding any hint at union embezzlement, or when, as we're further seeing since the 90s, interests in promoting political diversity in contracting take over from skilled workers for affirmative action. Surely China, unions, and affirmative action are not hampering American industrial autonomy, but it's Trump who is deregulating and getting China out of our institutions, our markets, and the lobbying of Democrats and neo-cons.

Bullet points:

• China
• Unions
• Civil Rights and Affirmative Action
• Trump

Out of the above, which are ​not limiting the autonomy of businesses and the employers?

What does Union embezzlement have to do with environmental concerns of the pipeline? Or political diversity? Or affirmative action? And sure, American industrial autonomy are hampered by all of those things. As are minimum wage laws, 8 hour workdays, environmental regulations, and trade tariffs. So I suppose if you are against business accountability to consumers, the government, and your local neighborhoods, then sure, Trump is your man as well as the billionaires lobbying his government. When the water is so dirty that you have to buy a 300$ mini desalination tool to filter it, I'll suppose we can announce a victory for the American entrepreneur. Creating problems so I can sell you a solution for it.

[Bob69Joe]

If Unions are a parasite on American taxes, then so is Lockheed Martin.



What does Union embezzlement have to do with environmental concerns of the pipeline? Or political diversity? Or affirmative action? And sure, American industrial autonomy are hampered by all of those things. As are minimum wage laws, 8 hour workdays, environmental regulations, and trade tariffs. So I suppose if you are against business accountability to consumers, the government, and your local neighborhoods, then sure, Trump is your man as well as the billionaires lobbying his government. When the water is so dirty that you have to buy a 300$ mini desalination tool to filter it, I'll suppose we can announce a victory for the American entrepreneur. Creating problems so I can sell you a solution for it.

OK, I admit, that my legal parlance borders on malfeseance, although that does not excuse the practice of unions embedding themselves into government since such things began to take shape.

It is interesting to take a look into just what unions and Civil Rights-Affirmative Action do to the economy. It creates bureaucracy for one thing, and it also forces businesses into compliance with government which simply means they pay more so we pay more. What all this has to do with a pipeline, now that X-Files stuff right there.

Far from a conspiracy though, if our policies force businesses to do business outside of those policies, and China has been willing to fill that gap for decades now, well that's best left to its own course while we as individuals make sure we have our own house in order and not scurrying about over the little things as Democrats are wont for us to do, to rile us up all the time. That has been their modus operandi now since Obama took the throne.

The 90s allowed the Democrats to appear strong, but the economy was a false one and it still is, running on debts all over the world. Without that 90s money, the Democrats have defaulted to typical egalitarian revolutionary doctrine.

[MacCarthy]

Geez some spilled oil. Try having a gas pipeline go off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmIiwzcPWTM

[Bob69Joe]

Oh yeah! Sorry to bash OP, but what does this have to do with a pipeline? If this is to draw ire to Trump in a very specific moment of context because this somehow validates what so many politicians are saying about Trump, then what that spells out for democracy and the ability of it to do anything toward a coherent goal is doom. We, and I mean I, can further conceptualize what this democracy can do for a nation like Israel which is becoming majority Arab, thus the majority of voters will be Arab.

It's not so simple here in America though, but most seem to want government or culture.

[B. W.]

300-400 thousand gallons of oil is like 10 rail cars. I'm also not sure what a big deal about a "mile long derailment" is. Damage to the environment is a much more serious issue than people being late to work for a day. Also, define "all the time". How often do pipeline leaks over 150,000 gallons occur? And if they do, how is that not a justification for not wanting a pipeline built? If you weren't trying so hard to be clever, you might've realized how self-defeating your statement actually is.

Self defeating? You have no idea what you are talking about. A half acre is relatively easy to clean up. A derailed train over a mile long would contaminate hundreds of acres. Which would you prefer?

Just so you know, there are over 2.5 million miles of oil and gas pipelines running throughout the US and many of them are over 50 years old. It is the safest and most economical method of transporting oil and gas.

[Love Mountain]

Self defeating? You have no idea what you are talking about.

He says without addressing anything that was said.

A half acre is relatively easy to clean up. A derailed train over a mile long would contaminate hundreds of acres. Which would you prefer?

A "mile long train" has hundreds of separate, self-sealed liquid containers, which are far less likely to leak than a pipeline. Your dichotomy is a false one.

Congressional Research Service

Given the comparatively small capacity of a rail tank car, around 700 barrels, the total amount
spilled from even a major derailment is likely to be small compared to the 260,000 barrels
discharged in the 1989 grounding of the Exxon Valdez in Prince William Sound, AK, or the
approximately 40,000 barrels discharged in the largest U.S. pipeline oil spill CRS can document,
which occurred in 1991 near Grand Rapids, MN.37 Nonetheless, spill volume is arguably a
relatively unimportant factor in terms of impacts and cleanup costs. Location matters more: a
major spill away from shore will likely cost considerably less to abate than a minor spill in a
populated location or sensitive ecosystem. Depending on timing and location, even a small spill
can cause significant harm to individual organisms and entire populations.3

Just so you know, there are over 2.5 million miles of oil and gas pipelines running throughout the US and many of them are over 50 years old. It is the safest and most economical method of transporting oil and gas.

It's actually the most common. Whether it's the safest is up for debate.

[B. W.]

He says without addressing anything that was said.



A "mile long train" has hundreds of separate, self-sealed liquid containers, which are far less likely to leak than a pipeline. Your dichotomy is a false one.

Congressional Research Service






It's actually the most common. Whether it's the safest is up for debate.

HaHaHa! That report was prepared by people who supported Obama's position on the pipeline. What a surprise! Buried in the fine print was this acknowledgement:

Oil by Rail Derailments in 2013 and 2014Lac Mégantic, Quebec—On July 5, 2013, a train with 72 loaded tank cars of crude oil from North Dakota movingfrom Montreal, Quebec, to St. John, New Brunswick, stopped at Nantes, Quebec, at 11:00 pm. The operator and solerailroad employee aboard the train secured it and departed, leaving the train on shortline track with a descendinggrade of about 1.2%. At about 1:00 AM, it appears the train began rolling down the descending grade toward thetown of Lac-Mégantic, about 30 miles from the U.S. border. Near the center of town, 63 tank cars derailed, resultingin multiple explosions and subsequent fires. There were 47 fatalities and extensive damage to the town. 2,000 peoplewere evacuated. The initial determination was that the braking force applied to the train was insufficient to hold it onthe 1.2% grade and that the crude oil released was more volatile than expected.Gainford, Alberta—On October 19, 2013, nine tank cars of propane and four tank cars of crude oil from Canadaderailed as a Canadian National train was entering a siding at 22 miles per hour. About 100 residents were evacuated.Three of the propane cars burned, but the tank cars carrying oil were pushed away and did not burn. No one wasinjured or killed. The cause of the derailment is under investigation.Aliceville, Alabama—On November 8, 2013, a train hauling 90 cars of crude oil from North Dakota to a refinerynear Mobile, AL, derailed on a section of track through a wetland near Aliceville, AL. Thirty tank cars derailed andsome dozen of these burned. No one was injured or killed. The derailment occurred on a shortline railroad’s trackthat had been inspected a few days earlier. The train was travelling under the speed limit for this track. The cause ofthe derailment is under investigation.Casselton, North Dakota—On December 30, 2013, an eastbound BNSF Railway train hauling 106 tank cars ofcrude oil struck a westbound train carrying grain that shortly before had derailed onto the eastbound track. Some 34cars from both trains derailed, including 20 cars carrying crude, which exploded and burned for over 24 hours. About1,400 residents of Casselton were evacuated but no injuries were reported. The cause of the derailments andsubsequent fire is under investigation.Plaster Rock, New Brunswick—On January 7, 2014, 17 cars of a mixed train hauling crude oil, propane, and othergoods derailed likely due to a sudden wheel or axle failure. Five tank cars carrying crude oil caught fire and exploded.The train reportedly was delivering crude from Manitoba and Alberta to the Irving Oil refinery in Saint John, NewBrunswick. About 45 homes were evacuated but no injuries were reported.Philadelphia, Pennsylvania—On January 20, 2014, 7 cars of a 101-car CSX train, including 6 carrying crude oil,derailed on a bridge over the Schuylkill River. No injuries and no leakage were reported, but press photographsshowed two cars, one a tanker, leaning over the river.Vandergrift, Pennsylvania—On February 13, 2014, 21 tank cars of a 120-car train derailed outside Pittsburgh.Nineteen of the derailed cars were carrying crude oil from western Canada, and four of them released product.There was no fire or injuries.Lynchburg, Virginia—On April 30, 2014, 15 cars in a crude oil train derailed in the downtown area of this city.Three cars caught fire, and some cars derailed into a river along the tracks. The immediate area surrounding thederailment was evacuated. No injuries were reported.

People against the pipeline are under the mistaken belief that not building it would stop the oil extraction. This isn't true. If it were not built the plan was to build another pipeline across Canada so the oil could be exported to China.

The oil that was leaked spilled into the easement that every pipeline has. Trucks and rail cars typically run through heavily populated areas at any given time. It is the nature of what they do. Even a six year old could deduce that transporting flammable materials under ground would be safer than transporting them above it.

[Love Mountain]

HaHaHa! That report was prepared by people who supported Obama's position on the pipeline. What a surprise! Buried in the fine print was this acknowledgement:

Ad Hominem. Try again. And "buried"? Really? The report is a mere 28 pages long with a rather large font.

Oil by Rail Derailments in 2013 and 2014Lac Mégantic, Quebec—On July 5, 2013, a train with 72 loaded tank cars of crude oil from North Dakota movingfrom Montreal, Quebec, to St. John, New Brunswick, stopped at Nantes, Quebec, at 11:00 pm. The operator and solerailroad employee aboard the train secured it and departed, leaving the train on shortline track with a descendinggrade of about 1.2%. At about 1:00 AM, it appears the train began rolling down the descending grade toward thetown of Lac-Mégantic, about 30 miles from the U.S. border. Near the center of town, 63 tank cars derailed, resultingin multiple explosions and subsequent fires. There were 47 fatalities and extensive damage to the town. 2,000 peoplewere evacuated. The initial determination was that the braking force applied to the train was insufficient to hold it onthe 1.2% grade and that the crude oil released was more volatile than expected.Gainford, Alberta—On October 19, 2013, nine tank cars of propane and four tank cars of crude oil from Canadaderailed as a Canadian National train was entering a siding at 22 miles per hour. About 100 residents were evacuated.Three of the propane cars burned, but the tank cars carrying oil were pushed away and did not burn. No one wasinjured or killed. The cause of the derailment is under investigation.Aliceville, Alabama—On November 8, 2013, a train hauling 90 cars of crude oil from North Dakota to a refinerynear Mobile, AL, derailed on a section of track through a wetland near Aliceville, AL. Thirty tank cars derailed andsome dozen of these burned. No one was injured or killed. The derailment occurred on a shortline railroad’s trackthat had been inspected a few days earlier. The train was travelling under the speed limit for this track. The cause ofthe derailment is under investigation.Casselton, North Dakota—On December 30, 2013, an eastbound BNSF Railway train hauling 106 tank cars ofcrude oil struck a westbound train carrying grain that shortly before had derailed onto the eastbound track. Some 34cars from both trains derailed, including 20 cars carrying crude, which exploded and burned for over 24 hours. About1,400 residents of Casselton were evacuated but no injuries were reported. The cause of the derailments andsubsequent fire is under investigation.Plaster Rock, New Brunswick—On January 7, 2014, 17 cars of a mixed train hauling crude oil, propane, and othergoods derailed likely due to a sudden wheel or axle failure. Five tank cars carrying crude oil caught fire and exploded.The train reportedly was delivering crude from Manitoba and Alberta to the Irving Oil refinery in Saint John, NewBrunswick. About 45 homes were evacuated but no injuries were reported.Philadelphia, Pennsylvania—On January 20, 2014, 7 cars of a 101-car CSX train, including 6 carrying crude oil,derailed on a bridge over the Schuylkill River. No injuries and no leakage were reported, but press photographsshowed two cars, one a tanker, leaning over the river.Vandergrift, Pennsylvania—On February 13, 2014, 21 tank cars of a 120-car train derailed outside Pittsburgh.Nineteen of the derailed cars were carrying crude oil from western Canada, and four of them released product.There was no fire or injuries.Lynchburg, Virginia—On April 30, 2014, 15 cars in a crude oil train derailed in the downtown area of this city.Three cars caught fire, and some cars derailed into a river along the tracks. The immediate area surrounding thederailment was evacuated. No injuries were reported.

Hey guys, guys. This section was "buried"

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Yeah, framed in a nice table to make it easy to read, under a subheading OIL BY RAIL DERAILMENTS IN 2013 AND 2014

People against the pipeline are under the mistaken belief that not building it would stop the oil extraction. This isn't true. If it were not built the plan was to build another pipeline across Canada so the oil could be exported to China.

The oil that was leaked spilled into the easement that every pipeline has. Trucks and rail cars typically run through heavily populated areas at any given time. It is the nature of what they do. Even a six year old could deduce that transporting flammable materials under ground would be safer than transporting them above it.

If the pipeline wasn't built, the economics change. No, the extraction wouldn't stop but that isn't really the primary concern for those who opposed the pipeline. I agree, pipelines are preferable to rail, but ultimately that's dependent on where the oil is going through, whether there are any pressing concerns regarding the pipeline route, and whether the pipeline should be built at all when alternatives, such as rail exist.

But no, a six year old wouldn't be able to figure any of these questions out, because B.W., this isn't a simple situation.

[Cookiegod]

Uh no, contaminated earth is (in Europe) not easy to clean up, and costs big bucks. Either by treating it, or by removing it to a place to put it that fulfills a number of requirements. US might simply scrape a bit off and leave the rest there, since they're much more chillaxed about those kinds of things in general. Well then some people will get to pay for it in cancer therapy.

Also, pipeline technology these days is very, very safe and spills especially of this scale that are not the result of theft are completely unnecessary, and should not happen at all with a pipeline so new.

They are completely unheard of in Europe in these years, even in the failed state of Ukraine, where nothing goes without corruption and where the Soviet built infrastructure is barely maintained.

And while yeah, hauling them by train is both costlier and potentially more dangerous, that doesn't change the fact that Keystone operatives have some explaining to do.

Before constructing the pipeline, TransCanada provided a spill risk assessment to regulators that estimated the chance of a leak of more than 50 barrels to be “not more than once every seven to 11 years over the entire length of the pipeline in the United States,” according to its South Dakota operating permit.

For South Dakota alone, where the line has leaked twice, the estimate was for a “spill no more than once every 41 years.”

[...]

Members of South Dakota’s Public Utilities Commission told Reuters last week they could revoke TransCanada’s operating permit if an initial probe of last week’s spill shows it violated the terms of the license.

Those terms include requirements for standards for construction, regular inspections of pipeline infrastructure, and other environmental safeguards.

“They testified that this is going to be a state-of-the-art pipeline,” said one of the commissioners, Gary Hanson. “We want to know the pipeline is going to operate in a fashion that is safe and reliable. So far it’s not going well.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...idUSKBN1DR1CS#

And yeah, if not wanting to soak the environment in oil is the new metric for liberals, then count me in. Just like I'm accused of being far right for similarly asinine reasons.

[B. W.]

Ad Hominem. Try again. And "buried"? Really? The report is a mere 28 pages long with a rather large font.



Hey guys, guys. This section was "buried"

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Yeah, framed in a nice table to make it easy to read, under a subheading OIL BY RAIL DERAILMENTS IN 2013 AND 2014



If the pipeline wasn't built, the economics change. No, the extraction wouldn't stop but that isn't really the primary concern for those who opposed the pipeline. I agree, pipelines are preferable to rail, but ultimately that's dependent on where the oil is going through, whether there are any pressing concerns regarding the pipeline route, and whether the pipeline should be built at all when alternatives, such as rail exist.

But no, a six year old wouldn't be able to figure any of these questions out, because B.W., this isn't a simple situation.

Yeah, that's right! Buried, framed, and minimized. Be cause reading that would lead someone to believe that all there was in that four year time frame. However, there were at least 10 derailments the year the report was published.

https://www.trucknews.com/blogs/ther...s-got-to-stop/

Which means, in case you can't figure it out, they were lying.

Uh no, contaminated earth is (in Europe) not easy to clean up, and costs big bucks. Either by treating it, or by removing it to a place to put it that fulfills a number of requirements. US might simply scrape a bit off and leave the rest there, since they're much more chillaxed about those kinds of things in general. Well then some people will get to pay for it in cancer therapy.

Also, pipeline technology these days is very, very safe and spills especially of this scale that are not the result of theft are completely unnecessary, and should not happen at all with a pipeline so new.

They are completely unheard of in Europe in these years, even in the failed state of Ukraine, where nothing goes without corruption and where the Soviet built infrastructure is barely maintained.

And while yeah, hauling them by train is both costlier and potentially more dangerous, that doesn't change the fact that Keystone operatives have some explaining to do.



And yeah, if not wanting to soak the environment in oil is the new metric for liberals, then count me in. Just like I'm accused of being far right for similarly asinine reasons.

Exactly. The pipeline has to be built with certified pipe. The welders have to be certified for the welding they are doing and the welds have to be x-rayed. If the welder didn't grind out the "wagon tracks" before he made the final passes on his weld it would show up in the x-ray. All the paperwork has to be in order. If there is a problem then the company that built that particular section is in for some heavy fines.

And let's face it, 1/2 acre on an easement is practically nothing. It will take one bulldozer, a front-end loader and some dump trucks about a week to clean it up and restore it. That verses a complete disaster if even one rail car derails and leaks in a populated area; not to mention what could happen if it blevied. An explosion like that can throw an end of the rail car that blows off a 1/4 mile. Think about it.

[Vanoi]

Oh yeah! Sorry to bash OP, but what does this have to do with a pipeline? If this is to draw ire to Trump in a very specific moment of context because this somehow validates what so many politicians are saying about Trump, then what that spells out for democracy and the ability of it to do anything toward a coherent goal is doom. We, and I mean I, can further conceptualize what this democracy can do for a nation like Israel which is becoming majority Arab, thus the majority of voters will be Arab.

It's not so simple here in America though, but most seem to want government or culture.

Trump allowed the pipeline built despite protests over enviormental concerns like an oil leak happening. Too easy to criticize him on this issue.

[Cyclops]

The Orange Frat Boy said the pipeline would be good for the environment didn't he?

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...17972981551104

Cue his acolytes spooning oil soaked dirt into their mouths to "own the Libs".

[Cookiegod]

Exactly. The pipeline has to be built with certified pipe. The welders have to be certified for the welding they are doing and the welds have to be x-rayed. If the welder didn't grind out the "wagon tracks" before he made the final passes on his weld it would show up in the x-ray. All the paperwork has to be in order. If there is a problem then the company that built that particular section is in for some heavy fines.

And let's face it, 1/2 acre on an easement is practically nothing. It will take one bulldozer, a front-end loader and some dump trucks about a week to clean it up and restore it. That verses a complete disaster if even one rail car derails and leaks in a populated area; not to mention what could happen if it blevied. An explosion like that can throw an end of the rail car that blows off a 1/4 mile. Think about it.

The fact this happened at all means the companies and authorities are slacking. They are probably truly believing that it is nothing. Well it is something. Removing said contamination and finding or creating a dump to place it in is quite expensive. Add to that the fine that would absolutely be appropriate and necessary.

I bet with you that they will likely be slacking on the removal, and that their lobby will make sure that no substantial fines will be paid.

They probably have a cost benefit analysis that told them not doing it properly and having a few spills was cheaper than doing it right.

This "practically nothing" is completely avoidable and thus unacceptable. It's like a distracted driver running over a kid. Sure. There are millions and billions more of those annoying buggers, but the responsible still needs to see some jailtime.

[B. W.]

The fact this happened at all means the companies and authorities are slacking. They are probably truly believing that it is nothing. Well it is something. Removing said contamination and finding or creating a dump to place it in is quite expensive. Add to that the fine that would absolutely be appropriate and necessary.

I bet with you that they will likely be slacking on the removal, and that their lobby will make sure that no substantial fines will be paid.

They probably have a cost benefit analysis that told them not doing it properly and having a few spills was cheaper than doing it right.

This "practically nothing" is completely avoidable and thus unacceptable. It's like a distracted driver running over a kid. Sure. There are millions and billions more of those annoying buggers, but the responsible still needs to see some jailtime.

Oh, I agree, someone should go to jail because engineering requirements were not followed. Engineering pipelines is a well established discipline and if the requirements and regulations are followed this sort of thing wouldn't happen. I suspect someone was bribed or ignored the law for profit or possibly out of pure laziness, but pipeline workers aren't known for being lazy.