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Thread: POTF 18 - Nominations

  1. #1
    Flinn's Avatar The Alpha Santa!
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    Default POTF 18 - Nominations


    POTF is about recognising the very best posts, the best arguments and discourse in the D&D, and appropriately rewarding it.

    You shall progressively earn these medals once you achieve enough wins, but first you must be nominated in threads such as this one. And it works like this.

    Post of the Fortnight - Rules
    -Each user can nominate up to 2 posts per round, and the only valid form of nomination is by quoting with a link as shown below the chosen post in the PotF thread designated for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Looking forward to getting this kicked off for real!
    -Each 15 days there will be a new Nomination thread put up, and all the posts written during this period are considered eligible, if properly nominated. Exception are posts who are somewhat breaking the ToS; upon being acted by Moderation, they are always considered uneligible.

    - Remember: It is possible to nominate up to 2 posts each round of the competition; it is also possible to change a nomination anytime before the actual round of nominations ends.

    - There will be two competitions held every month, with a period for nominations followed by a period of voting. The submitted posts can be discussed in a dedicated space.

    - Only posts that have not participated in a previous poll and that have been published in the current period of given time in any section of the D&D area may be nominated.

    - The authors of the nominated post will be informed so they can withdraw the candidacy if that is their wish.

    - The maximum number of participating posts in the final vote will be ten. If more than ten nominations are submitted, seconded nominations will take priority. After seconded nominations are considered, earliest nominations will take priority. If the number of posts submitted to the contest is less than ten, the organizing committee may nominate posts if it considers it appropriate.

    -The members of the committee will never nominate a post belonging to one of them, but the rest of the users can nominate their posts (organizers posts), and vice versa.

    -In the event of a tie, both posts will be awarded and both posters will receive rep and 1 competition point.


    - Public or private messages asking for a vote for a candidate post are forbidden. Violators (and their posts) may not participate in the running contest.

    - People are expected to consider the quality and structure of the post itself, more than the content of the same. While it's certainly impossible to completely split the two aspects when making our own opinion on a post, it remains intended, as also explained in the Competition Commentary Thread, that commenting and discussing on the content rather than on the form/structure of the post is considered off-topic for the purpose of this competition. You are free to nominate and vote for whatever reason you want, but what happens in public has to strictly follow up with the competition rules.


    A nominated post should:

    1. Be focused and relevant to the topic(s) being discussed.
    2. Demonstrate a well-developed, insightful and nuanced understanding of the topic(s) it is discussing.
    3. Be logically coherent, well organized and communicate its points effectively.
    4. Support its contentions with verifiable evidence, either in the form of links or references.
    5. Not be deliberately vexatious to other users.


    Good luck everyone!
    Under the patronage of Finlander, patron of Lugotorix & Lifthrasir & joerock22& Socrates1984; of the Imperial House of Hader

  2. #2
    Flinn's Avatar The Alpha Santa!
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    Default Re: POTF 18 - Nominations

    Quote Originally Posted by Muizer View Post
    I admit this is going out on a limb, but there might be something to it: The phenomenon you describe might be a remnant from times when all (official) power was assumed to come from God. If all power comes from god, then those exerting it will feel uninclined to accomodate other beliefs. We might think of absolute monarchs here, but I think it's worth asking whether many voters in democratic systems are not still exerting their little slice of power in this manner.

    So, what is the alternative? I think the 'enlightened' view is that power comes from 'the people' and that as there is no single eternal, divine, anchor for good government we limit ourselves to a social contract. Specifically, peolpe might think something like murder is 'evil', but that is not in itself a grounds for a state to make it illegal. That illegality is instead the outcome of a social contract. Nobody wants to be, murdered, assaulted, stolen from etc., hence we promise eachother than if any of us is the victim, we will stand by their side and hunt down the perpetrator.

    With no external 'anchor of truth' a liberal democracy holds that it strives for the greatest freedom for the greatest number. This involves weighting one person's interests against another whenever a conflict arises. The old an new ways are very similar in some cases like murder and theft: things that used to be considered 'sinful' and are now guarded against through a social contract. In other cases (the ones the OP mentions) they are diverging sharply. Sodomy might have been 'sinful', but in terms of the social contract and the weighting of interests, the only damage is an offense against certain sensibilities. Yet, some people exert their little slice of democratic power well outside of the scope of the social contract, acting like tiny gods sitting in judgement of others instead.

    Democracy, again, is not an end in itself, it's a procedure. It can yield results at odds with what it is intended for. Obvious example is 'democratically abolishing democracy', but really any instance where people act like little gods is abuse of the system. Sensibilities should never guide your vote. Every decision made should start with asking 'do I/we have grounds to interfere with someone's freedom' and if those grounds are "I do not want to be offended" then that's a very weak basis for legislation.

    Perhaps controversially, but IMHO suicide/euthanasia and abortion can only really be made subject to the social contract in terms of 'offended sensibilities", because there are no injured parties involved that can conceivably be considered parties in a social contract. Hence 3rd parties (as personified by the state) really have no business interfering.

    And no, it's not water-tight and I look forward to this being challenged. I am sure there are many awkward edge cases that would follow from driving these ideas to their logical conclusion.
    Last edited by Flinn; November 06, 2019 at 06:10 AM.
    Under the patronage of Finlander, patron of Lugotorix & Lifthrasir & joerock22& Socrates1984; of the Imperial House of Hader

  3. #3
    Flinn's Avatar The Alpha Santa!
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    Default Re: POTF 18 - Nominations

    Quote Originally Posted by HackneyedScribe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Common Soldier View Post
    No, I don't. The slaves had to eat, and since they had no money, it had to be provided for them. I don't need to proved that the Scythian police needed air, or water to drink either. If you know of any slaves who were forced to buy their own food and clothing. I would you to provide that information..
    If slaves have no money then their "wage" is equivalent to just their upkeep. If you think slave masters provide for their slaves more than what slaves earn for their masters, I would like you to provide that information.

    Was the money paid directly to the slave or to the person who owned the slave? Doesn't all the property of a slave belong to the owner? Ifnthd money was paid to the owner, ornrhr slave turned over all money to the owner, then the owner would have to provide the food and clothing for the slave. If thr Mone was given directly to the slave, then yes, perhaps the cost of food and clothing was taken from the slaves wages
    If money was given to the slave owner: Slave workers earn nothing but their upkeep
    If slave masters take money from their slaves: Slave upkeep comes from the money they originally earned anyways

    Either way it doesn't make slaves earn more money than what's shown on paper.

    If you want to apply thr logic, then it applies to all ships, not just Roman ships. Dismmis the claims fornrhe Roman ships, we equally can dismiss claims for the Song and Ming ships as well.
    That's your logic, don't you already do that? As I said for the third time, I'm not using my logic. In fact I'm using yours and applying it to Roman shipping rather than Chinese ones.

    We do have Romans ships that were 400 tons, and I.said, we don't need to provide an example fornevery shipping run they sailed. The logic says there were no large ships from the early Ming, and the largest Song ship we have evidence for is a mere 300 tons, so we can't ships any larger actually existed in Song and Ming China.
    It sounds like you want to discard the practice of solely using archaeological evidence to prove the existence of large ships. In which case Simaqian recorded that Tower ships were over 10 zhang high.

    是时越欲与汉用船战逐,乃大修昆明池,列观环之。治楼船,高十余丈,旗帜加其上,甚壮
    Yue and Han were using ships for combat, Kunming Lake was greatly repaired.... Tower ships were built, over 10 zhang high, when a banner is added on top, then they are very magnificent.

    As a matter of fact, some analysis of the contemporary evidence does indicate that Zheng He treasure ships were only 300 tons, consistent with the Chinese shipwreck remains we have found (Nanhai No. 1 shipwreck). Contemporary records mention 2000 Liao ships. Which works out 300 tons depending on the value you assign to the Liao. The Madrague de Giens supports the existence of 300 tons ships mentioned in the Roman written records. And the Lake Nemi and Caligula Giant ships do support the existence od 1400 tons ships like the Isis mentioned in the written refords. The hulls of the Lake Nemi ships were lined with lead, which served no purpose in fresh water, indicating the 60 meter hulls were adapted from sea going vessels of that size.
    Contemporary evidence shows that Zheng He's Treasure ships were 5000 liao in size (1250 tons), not 300 tons, as you should well know considering you participated here: https://historum.com/threads/can-any...1#post-3104735

    Sally K Church:
    A ship of about 200-250 ft would make much more sense than the 450 ft one. Such a ship would be large enough to transport the required number of people and amount of supplies and treasures. Although this was the maximum size of wooden ships in the West, this is not the reason why we should accept it as an optimum size. Gong Zhen’s evidence is perhaps the soundest – his statement that there were 200-300 men on the ships. This number of men could not have man- aged a ship of 20,000 tons, but would have been quite adept at handling ships of a smaller size, such as the Razee Corvette, a Ship-of-the-Line manned by 205- 220 men, or the Fifth Rate (46-gun) ship with a complement of 280-300 men.The Razee Corvette was 145 ft long, and 38.5 ft in the beam with a burden of 944 tons and a displacement of 1,280 tons. The Fifth Rate was over 150 ft long and 40 ft in the beam with a capacity of 1,063 tons burden and a displacement of 2,154 tons.132 Ships that are too large also have certain disadvantages, foremost among which is a loss of maneuverability. This lesson was learned by the Spanish Armada

    She didn't have the evidence from Hong Bao's tomb which was excavated after her article. The tomb gives the first primary source evidence which says that Zheng He had 5000 liao ships, which is equivalent to 1250 tons burthen and 2000 tons displacement. This coroborrates with Sally K.'s estimation using Gong Zheng's quote that the ships were crewed by 200-300 men, from which she concludes that a ship of 300 crewmen would be the size of a fifth rate ship (1063 tons burthen, 2154 tons displacement, 150 feet in length). Still very large for the time period.
    Under the patronage of Finlander, patron of Lugotorix & Lifthrasir & joerock22& Socrates1984; of the Imperial House of Hader

  4. #4
    mishkin's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: POTF 18 - Nominations

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY_lzonfE3I

    Am i now completely bonkers or did that lady just say her trees are 500 times more efficient in filtering out CO2 of the atmosphere than natural trees?

    Every industrial nation should be obliged to build those things asap!
    Quote Originally Posted by Genava View Post
    Bosch: https://www.bosch.com/stories/synthetic-fuels/
    Audi: https://www.audi-mediacenter.com/en/audi-e-fuels-243

    With the advantage to reduce both greenhouse gases accumulation and air pollution.

    Scientific research:
    Cheap catalysts turn sunlight and carbon dioxide into fuel
    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017...n-dioxide-fuel

    Stanford researchers create new catalyst that can turn carbon dioxide into fuels
    https://news.stanford.edu/2019/10/17...-dioxide-fuel/

    Scientists create 'artificial leaf' that turns carbon into fuel
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...1104112809.htm

    This former playwright aims to turn solar and wind power into gasoline
    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019...power-gasoline

    With the advantage to store renewable energy in chemical compounds easily applicable to transportation.
    Genava's post. I have posted this nomination november, 16, I don't know if I'm still within the deadline
    Last edited by mishkin; November 16, 2019 at 02:31 PM.

  5. #5
    Abdülmecid I's Avatar ¡Ay Carmela!
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    Default Re: POTF 18 - Nominations

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    AT published some articles a while back and predicted this would happen. Not to worry, Bolivia will just elect another socialist and expect a different result.
    Yup, that sounds legit:

    Illiteracy rates:
    2006 13.0%, 2018 2.4%

    Unemployment rates
    2006 9.2%, 2018 4.1%

    Moderate poverty rates
    2006 60.6%, 2018 34.6%

    Extreme poverty rates
    2006 38.2%, 2018 15.2%

    Bolivia was such a great country until Evio Morales stepped in.
    The opposition candidate Carlos Mesa used to be the president of Bolivia until he had to step down due to his government selling out Bolivia's resources for no gain of its people. So how much better was the country when he lost power in 2005?

    Oh right:
    Illiteracy rate: 13.0%
    Unemployment rate: 9.2%
    Moderate poverty rate: 60.6%
    Extreme poverty rate: 38.2%

    But surely a socialist is always going to ruin the economy:



    But hey, at least all that Lithium will be able to flow out freely from the country without first creating jobs. Because I'm willing to bet that this is one of the first decisions that's going to be reversed by the coup "government".
    Quote Originally Posted by saxdude View Post
    The straight facts of the matter is that Evo's goverment was the superior goverment, seeing increases in economic prosperity, self determination, racial equality and education. What is also a fact is that instead of grooming a successor, Evo took on a paternalistic role in Bolivia when he could have easily renounced the presidency while keeping his party in office, choosing instead to commit unneccesary fraud and shooting himself as well as the rest of Bolivia, in the foot. That or you know... do something to actually support his continued power in the region.
    What is also a *fact* is that whatever legitimacy the anti-fraud movement had is being lost, as religious right wing fundamentalists and facists begin to take control and polarize the people with evangelist and racial retoric, such as those pronounced by the now Constitutional President Jeanine Añez.

    In the coming weeks we will see how things develop, but it seems quite likely things are moving towards a worse place, as a legitimate protest turns into a coup.
    An extra factoid is that HH has the worst takes, as per us'.

    I trust those people in this thread opposing imperialism and foreign intervention and upholding the rights of the indigenous population will act the same way regarding Europe...
    Pray tell what european country has an even remotely similar situation going on within it's borders?

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