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Thread: Why do we respect people's lives but not their free wills?

  1. #21
    AqD's Avatar 。◕‿◕。
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    Default Re: Why do we respect people's lives but not their free wills?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    The problems that you highlight are because man has come to worship himself, the created, before the Creator, and this is where your problems and the world's problems begin. If you think as it appears you think that you are not a sinner then you kid yourself on and the more you do that the more you believe it.
    I don't see anything wrong to be a self-worshiping sinner. We still have certain laws that were created for mutual benefits by rather fair process. I'd argue to follow a law for practical reason (which is also changeable) is very different from following it due to obsession with certain kinds of thinking, which almost always lead to disrespecting others' free wills or hurting one's own benefits - to prevent people from suicide or nudity in public, for example, or nationalist or religious ideas.

    BTW the bankers / money lenders Jesus chased out formed the financial foundation of modern society. It's good he has little influence remaining today.

  2. #22
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Why do we respect people's lives but not their free wills?

    AqD,

    He didn't drive them out because they were bankers, rather because they were desecrating a Holy Place by doing their business inside instead of outside. When He returned to glory this world was left under the power of sin and Satan yet His Gospel still has the power of God to save people as is happening all over the world. When He comes back everything changes because everything on the planet will be judged, those that believe on Him and all those that don't being sent to their eternal destinations. So, despite all you say of Him will be changed for you and many others acknowledging that He is God our Creator. By then of course you will find out that you never had free-will and that the will you do have has pointed you in the wrong direction.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Why do we respect people's lives but not their free wills?

    basics never had any free-will but the free will he does have is pointing him in the right direction. Thank God.

    So, basics, you're saying we can't respect the free will of the people because they never had any, but the free will they have is pointing them to the right or wrong directions, depending if it's God or Satan doing the influence?

  4. #24
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Why do we respect people's lives but not their free wills?

    Bethrezen,

    What I am saying is that man never had free will whether under God's rule or Darwin's theory because rules and laws were set out by both right from the very beginning. Under both man has a will, that is indisputable, but if under either man's will was free and that is not possible, then man can overcome any law of both God and nature. He can't because in each case death intervenes at some point and so his will cannot overcome that. The thing is that under Darwin's theory death brings an end, full stop, but, in God's timing death leads to something else, something that is eternal, yet not in this world. Therefore being a believer from God's side I can respect many things and disrespect many other things if they are not of God. Basics never had a free will and the will that he did have was already governed by God the day that Adam fell from grace this proven by the neverending teaching of parents to show their children right from wrong, wrong being the predominate factor to be overcome. If humanity really had free will my guess would be more chaos in the world than there already is.

  5. #25
    pchalk's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Why do we respect people's lives but not their free wills?

    To add my own input to the topic: Let me say I am not a godly person so I will leave out that element. Where I do have experience is the cultural aspect to free will. I am German but have lived most of my life in the US. Ever since moving to Germany as an adult, I have to say my libertarian american attitude just finds the German need to have a rule for everything baffling. A society needs laws, and yes they often inherently limit freedoms, but they should be a last resort and even, in their creation, aim to protect freedoms, not take them away. Speaking with Germans and those from many other cultures, this seems like a foreign concept to them. The freedom to chose is essential in life but it would seem that the definition of freedom or perhaps its practical application varies among different cultures.

  6. #26
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Why do we respect people's lives but not their free wills?

    Quote Originally Posted by pchalk View Post
    To add my own input to the topic: Let me say I am not a godly person so I will leave out that element. Where I do have experience is the cultural aspect to free will. I am German but have lived most of my life in the US. Ever since moving to Germany as an adult, I have to say my libertarian american attitude just finds the German need to have a rule for everything baffling. A society needs laws, and yes they often inherently limit freedoms, but they should be a last resort and even, in their creation, aim to protect freedoms, not take them away. Speaking with Germans and those from many other cultures, this seems like a foreign concept to them. The freedom to chose is essential in life but it would seem that the definition of freedom or perhaps its practical application varies among different cultures.
    pchalk,

    The price for Adam's error was that death came into being for that is the price of sin. Now no matter what man achieves despite Adam or any alternative death is a surety and nothing, note nothing, can escape death in both human and natural terms unless the curse be lifted and only when that person comes to understand that they are under a curse.

  7. #27
    Diamat's Avatar VELUTI SI DEUS DARETUR
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    Default Re: Why do we respect people's lives but not their free wills?

    @OP:

    The problem is your understanding of free will. Free will is meaningless without boundaries. The mind requires boundaries which it can either obey or defy. Education creates those boundaries. Education creates the essential substance of the mind, as does our entire upbringing. It is within such a structure that free will manifests itself. You cannot truly "will" something without any content, and content cannot simply be self-created by an isolated individual. In this sense, speaking from a position of logic, there is no contradiction between free will and tradition.

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