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Thread: Same-sex marriage and abortion to be made legal in Northern Ireland.

  1. #1
    Cohors_Evocata's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Same-sex marriage and abortion to be made legal in Northern Ireland.

    A deadline given to the Northern Ireland Assembly by Westminster to form a new devolved government expired at midnight yesterday. As a consequence, a bill passed in July by British MPs will now take effect, mandating the British government to implement more detailed legislation concerning same-sex marriage and abortion between now and early 2020. For now, abortion has effectively been decriminalised in Northern Ireland. A last-ditch effort by the DUP and a few other unionist MLAs to prevent the expiration of the deadline was blocked by several other parties inclusing SF, who refused to attend the first sitting of the Stormont assembly in over a 1000 days, with the latter party describing yesterday's actions as a "cynical political stunt".

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...eland-50128860

    Personally, while I'm glad for those who have now finally been given access to rights already enjoyed by other British and Irish citizens, it is a pity that not even this ultimatum has managed to return functional government to Stormont. Especially given the tumultuous process that has been Brexit and the importance of Northern Ireland therein, the potential benefit of cross-community negotiation could have been of particular use. I expect neither of the major parties would have been interested in the slightest though.
    Last edited by Cohors_Evocata; October 22, 2019 at 04:51 PM.
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  2. #2
    Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Same-sex marriage and abortion to be made legal in Northern Ireland.

    Every day Britain strays further from God's light. No doubt they'll come for Northern Ireland's guns next.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Same-sex marriage and abortion to be made legal in Northern Ireland.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    Every day Britain strays further from God's light. No doubt they'll come for Northern Ireland's guns next.
    God? Which one? People worship loads of different Gods. Personally, I always quite liked Thor myself.

    Look. If you disagree with abortion, then don't have one, and if you don't like same sex marriage, then don't marry someone of the same sex. Problem solved.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Same-sex marriage and abortion to be made legal in Northern Ireland.

    Now legal to kill in NI:



    The D&E (dilation and evacuation) abortion is typically done in the second trimester, between 13 and 24 weeks of pregnancy.

    Dr. Anthony Levatino, a former abortionist, explains a second trimester D&E abortion in the video.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; October 23, 2019 at 03:39 AM. Reason: Obscene.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Same-sex marriage and abortion to be made legal in Northern Ireland.

    I don't think I ever quite bought the idea that the majority of opposition do so because they believe it is literally tantamount to baby murder. In the US at least, this belief would entice pro-life proponents to support policies that would reduce abortion rates (outside of just pushing for a blanket ban); but they either couldn't be bothered, or actively oppose such policies.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Same-sex marriage and abortion to be made legal in Northern Ireland.

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    I don't think I ever quite bought the idea that the majority of opposition do so because they believe it is literally tantamount to baby murder. In the US at least, this belief would entice pro-life proponents to support policies that would reduce abortion rates (outside of just pushing for a blanket ban); but they either couldn't be bothered, or actively oppose such policies.
    > If pro-life advocates don't support enormous welfare programs which would only further encourage rates of single motherhood and state dependency that must mean they don't really care about the rights of the unborn.

    Glad to see that you're still trying to use the supposed motives of pro-life supporters as a substitute for an actual argument in favour of the liquidation of tens of millions of human lives.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Same-sex marriage and abortion to be made legal in Northern Ireland.

    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail View Post
    > If pro-life advocates don't support enormous welfare programs which would only further encourage rates of single motherhood and state dependency that must mean they don't really care about the rights of the unborn.
    TF are you talking about "enormous welfare programs"? Try some simple proven like sex education and access to birth control. Less "oops" pregnancies=less demand for abortion.
    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail View Post
    Glad to see that you're still trying to use the supposed motives of pro-life supporters as a substitute for an actual argument in favour of the liquidation of tens of millions of human lives.
    It's weird you think you have a slam dunk reason that abortion is tantamount to baby murder, yet most of the civilized world hasn't seemed to buy it. Gotta make it more slam dunk-y I guess?
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Same-sex marriage and abortion to be made legal in Northern Ireland.

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    TF are you talking about "enormous welfare programs"? Try some simple proven like sex education and access to birth control. Less "oops" pregnancies=less demand for abortion.

    It's weird you think you have a slam dunk reason that abortion is tantamount to baby murder, yet most of the civilized world hasn't seemed to buy it. Gotta make it more slam dunk-y I guess?
    There's still no actual argument here. All you're doing is whinging about the supposed bad faith of pro-lifers (as per usual) and making asinine appeals to popularity. Why you even bother to involve yourself in these debates at all is beyond me.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Same-sex marriage and abortion to be made legal in Northern Ireland.

    Awesome. I'll get a nice, fat, juicy abortion, and then I'll marry my gay lover, Jesus.
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    Default Re: Same-sex marriage and abortion to be made legal in Northern Ireland.

    I´m kinda upset that we aren`t provided with a Video about how same sex- marriage works

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    mishkin's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Same-sex marriage and abortion to be made legal in Northern Ireland.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morifea View Post
    I´m kinda upset that we aren`t provided with a Video about how same sex- marriage works
    Too obscene content, would go against the rules.

    Congratulations N. Ireland. In a few years you will look at each other surprised to see that your society has not gone to hell and God (the one and only) has not punished you. (if you look closely you can even see that there are even fewer women suffering).
    Last edited by mishkin; October 23, 2019 at 07:33 AM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Same-sex marriage and abortion to be made legal in Northern Ireland.

    I have to laugh at the staggering levels of hypocrisy from the DUP over this:

    DUP on Brexit: It's outrageous that we are not being treated the same as the rest of the UK.
    DUP on this: It's outrageous that we are being treated the same as the rest of the UK.
    Last edited by TheLeft; October 23, 2019 at 11:15 AM.

  13. #13
    mishkin's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Same-sex marriage and abortion to be made legal in Northern Ireland.

    My apologies for what certainly must have been misuse of sarcasm.

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    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: Same-sex marriage and abortion to be made legal in Northern Ireland.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    Every day Britain strays further from God's light.
    If you believe ceasing to enforce God's will by means of the law is bad, does that mean you're a proponent of theocracy?
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

  15. #15

    Default Re: Same-sex marriage and abortion to be made legal in Northern Ireland.

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    My apologies for what certainly must have been misuse of sarcasm.

    Haha, no worries. I'll edit my post accordingly

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    Gäiten's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Same-sex marriage and abortion to be made legal in Northern Ireland.

    Boring.

    Would be really interesting news if this would happen in an Islamic country.

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    Abdülmecid I's Avatar ¡Ay Carmela!
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    Default Re: Same-sex marriage and abortion to be made legal in Northern Ireland.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gäiten View Post
    Would be really interesting news if this would happen in an Islamic country.
    It has already happened in several Islamic countries. States like Tunisia, Turkey and Bahrain endorse a much more liberal policy towards abortion than Northern Ireland, the United Kingdom, Finland or Poland. Even Pakistan, Iran or Saudi Arabia are more flexible than Christian-dominated countries, like Madagascar, Andorra, Venezuela or Guatemala. Interestingly enough, the strictest and most hostile against abortion countries on Earth, which forbid it completely under any circumstances, are all majority Christian: El Salvador, Malta, Nicaragua, the Dominican Republic and of course the theocracy of the Vatican. A national position towards abortion is more influenced by secularism, cultural particularities and industrialisation than a specific religious affiliation.

  18. #18
    z3n's Avatar State of Mind
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    Default Re: Same-sex marriage and abortion to be made legal in Northern Ireland.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    It has already happened in several Islamic countries. States like Tunisia, Turkey and Bahrain endorse a much more liberal policy towards abortion than Northern Ireland, the United Kingdom, Finland or Poland. Even Pakistan, Iran or Saudi Arabia are more flexible than Christian-dominated countries, like Madagascar, Andorra, Venezuela or Guatemala. Interestingly enough, the strictest and most hostile against abortion countries on Earth, which forbid it completely under any circumstances, are all majority Christian: El Salvador, Malta, Nicaragua, the Dominican Republic and of course the theocracy of the Vatican. A national position towards abortion is more influenced by secularism, cultural particularities and industrialisation than a specific religious affiliation.
    Given that there are about 2.1 billion Christians to 1.3 billion Muslims, it's reasonable to expect there would be a wider variety of views on the topic, given how integral the birth of Jesus is to Christianity.

    Edit: Although I see that the gap has shrunk significantly in the past 10 years according to some sources
    Last edited by z3n; October 23, 2019 at 02:24 PM.
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    Default Re: Same-sex marriage and abortion to be made legal in Northern Ireland.

    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail View Post
    There's still no actual argument here. All you're doing is whinging about the supposed bad faith of pro-lifers (as per usual) and making asinine appeals to popularity. Why you even bother to involve yourself in these debates at all is beyond me.
    I have little interest in "arguing" with you on whether a choice to end a pregnancy is tantamount to murdering a baby. I am sure it would be a fruitless conversation, as so many have been in the past, nor is it particularly on topic. More on topic; congrats to Northern Ireland for joining the rest of the 1st world on reproductive choice.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Same-sex marriage and abortion to be made legal in Northern Ireland.

    Quote Originally Posted by z3n View Post
    Given that there are about 2.1 billion Christians to 1.3 billion Muslims, it's reasonable to expect there would be a wider variety of views on the topic, given how integral the birth of Jesus is to Christianity.
    I doubt there are any mainstream branches of Islam that allow abortion after 120 days, whereas you would expect many of them to be open to it to some degree prior to 120 days, since according to Sahih al-Bukhari 4:54:430, the fetus has no soul prior to that point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


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