Reforms happen too late

[meerkatology]

by the time u get your cool units u've won the game already


romes last reform happens at imp 7, turn 210. i've never had a game where there is still a challenge at that point the game over long time ago

even the greek ones at turn 120, while the turn # isn't that late, its the imperium requirement.
with any faction, if i can hit imperium 5 i've generally won the game already

suppose this is more of a CAI competency issue, but if made reforms happen earlier for everyone wouldn't it still be better?
what about removing imperium requriement all together and just based on turn number?

[~Seleukos.I.Nikator~]

The reform requirements are supposed to simulate the historical developments and that's why some of them occur at much later date.

The imperial reforms for the Romans, for example, lay pretty much outside the scope of the main campaign, so if you want to properly play with the Imperial legions then it's better to go with IA campaign instead, or one of the mini campaigns like Caesar in Gaul (with the Marian legionnaries).

That said, the reforms script is written in a way that makes the reform requirements very easy to modify so that one can always adjust it to his/her own preferences.

Also, for that sort of inquires, please, use the feedback/suggestion thread instead of creating a new one.

[Rosbjerg]

by the time u get your cool units u've won the game already
romes last reform happens at imp 7, turn 210. i've never had a game where there is still a challenge at that point the game over long time ago

I think they happen way too early
There are submods that trigger reforms for everyone almost immediately though.

But! If you have the time to play longer campaigns, I can recommend playing at a much much slower rate.

You can try putting restrictions on your playstyle, catering to historical accuracy.

- Only raise legions (professional troops) when you are on a campaign. Disband them afterwards.
- If possible only have Consuls lead the professional armies, especially on foreign campaigns.
- Don't cheese the AI with surprise attacks, declare war and then raise your troops.
- Use vassals and client rulers more to create buffer states
- Annex them only after they've rebelled (and be sure to treat them arrogantly)
- Seek out the enemies armies and defeat them in the field - Rome rarely won by sieges (although you have to do that eventually of course).
- Roleplay powerhungry, irrational etc characters, based on their traits, not optimal gameplay.
- and/or other restrictions you'd find enjoyable.

[Icarus Smicarus]

The default unlock conditions seem to be a fair compromise between history and gameplay. If you think they happen too late in DEI look at EB2; no marian romans until turn 600 or thereabouts. Personally I enjoy mucking around with camillians for a bit more than 40 turns, it's a simple edit.

[T2av]

by the time u get your cool units u've won the game already


romes last reform happens at imp 7, turn 210. i've never had a game where there is still a challenge at that point the game over long time ago

even the greek ones at turn 120, while the turn # isn't that late, its the imperium requirement.
with any faction, if i can hit imperium 5 i've generally won the game already

suppose this is more of a CAI competency issue, but if made reforms happen earlier for everyone wouldn't it still be better?
what about removing imperium requriement all together and just based on turn number?

try data venia, its alot harder to expand as fast. I edited the turns for reforms, but kept it the same for imperium , as I'm still currently testing it out. if you want to try it , heres a link https://gofile.io/?c=bA01OK

[T2av]

if you don't like it, I can lower the imperium level.

[meerkatology]

i know how to edit it, i just feel like playing the game the way the developers meant it to be played , editing stuff somehow makes it less pristine/authentic for the lack of a better word

i've tried various house rules, no tax lvl above normal, no -empire maintence skill points for characters etc. and i play campaign on vh.
the bottomline is i dont want to play battle difficulty above normal since it disrupts unit balance and realism. but its hard to find another way to maintain challenge in the late game, and i lose interest quickly once that happens

doing it too artificially isn't really much cup of tea

[colonel klinck]

"I think they happen way too early "

I totally agree with you Rosbjerg !

Historically Polybian reform came around 230-220 BC just before the second punic war. So in game this means the triggering may reasonably come between turn 192 and 232 !(remember DEI great campaign begins in 278 BC and it is 4 turns a year)
Marian reform came around 100 BC. So when playing historically that means waiting about turn 712 to make it triggering....
Shall I talk about the Imperial reform or is it enough for you meerkatology ?
WTF are you talking about when you said that roman reforms come too late ?
At H/H level or even harder with your armies based on camillian reform (the basic one) you can keep back all the barbarian and greek factions during nearly half a century !
And with units based on polybian reform you can nearly challenge and dominate all type of ennemies during more than a century !
Maybe the issue is not so much about the way DEI triggers reform but as it is the way you're playing it ! Is it ?

[meerkatology]

"I think they happen way too early "

I totally agree with you Rosbjerg !

Historically Polybian reform came around 230-220 BC just before the second punic war. So in game this means the triggering may reasonably come between turn 192 and 232 !(remember DEI great campaign begins in 278 BC and it is 4 turns a year)
Marian reform came around 100 BC. So when playing historically that means waiting about turn 712 to make it triggering....
Shall I talk about the Imperial reform or is it enough for you meerkatology ?
WTF are you talking about when you said that roman reforms come too late ?
At H/H level or even harder with your armies based on camillian reform (the basic one) you can keep back all the barbarian and greek factions during nearly half a century !
And with units based on polybian reform you can nearly challenge and dominate all type of ennemies during more than a century !
Maybe the issue is not so much about the way DEI triggers reform but as it is the way you're playing it ! Is it ?

what are u talking about, i never mentioned historical accuracy, im speaking from gameplay perspective.

devs must balance between historical accuracy and gameplay. if u want true historical accuracy, one battle would take hours to a day.
you want to play like that?

also reform timing doesnt change the game difficulty or balance because AI reforms would come earlier as well.

whats the point of even making reform units if we never get to use them while the campaign still has challenge?

[colonel klinck]

I know my historically playing is limited. I just try my best to follow more or less that way caus' of course the AI controlled factions way of development is (by chance !) not always predictable.

But that's indeed the point. Still playing for a long time before making reform units while other tribes have already made them !
Historically (Yes I know....) gallic and greek tribes/factions had a couple of reforms earlier than the roman one. Same for the semitic or germanic ones. Their societies/civilizations where older than Rome. So I'm not desappointed to play like that. Facing reformed gaul, greek or carthaginian units with my camillian troops is indeed more challenging and interesting !