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Thread: Creation of the Senator Class Proposal

  1. #41
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: Creation of the Senator Class Proposal

    I was a Senatorii, about ten years ago, maybe more. How about letting it go, allow the curia die with a modicum of dignity. Not this embarrassing dragging up of old ghosts in desperate attempt to leave a mark.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Creation of the Senator Class Proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    I was a Senatorii, about ten years ago, maybe more. How about letting it go, allow the curia die with a modicum of dignity. Not this embarrassing dragging up of old ghosts in desperate attempt to leave a mark.
    I do not think proposals to revitalize the site is bad idea. I supposed if you were here during the height you can look fondly back on it and smile and go, "oh what a shame, but what great times we wants have." I personally, think it would still have great time for a new generations. Why deny them the same experiences? The Curia and the site could still leave a mark as a revitalize place of pageantry, fun, and spirited debate.

    Oh, and leave a mark for what? This is an internet site. The only people personally wish to leave a mark with are my students and my family, especially my baby. Moreover, if everything passes, and if it actually works, then anyone who thinks i had much to do with it, would be a fool. It will take the effort of a lot of people to make this work.
    Last edited by PikeStance; October 23, 2019 at 01:50 AM.
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  3. #43
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: Creation of the Senator Class Proposal

    2004 - The site was growing. RTW was on the horizon and an influx of new members was fairly consistent. The curia was born. The curia creates awards to heighten interest in the site and give it's members a sense of belonging.

    2019 - The site is shrinking. New games are far removed from RTW's forum based modding community. The curia is no longer integral to running the site. The curia creates awards to protect it's own sense of importance.

  4. #44

    Default Re: Creation of the Senator Class Proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    2004 - The site was growing. RTW was on the horizon and an influx of new members was fairly consistent. The curia was born. The curia creates awards to heighten interest in the site and give it's members a sense of belonging.

    2019 - The site is shrinking. New games are far removed from RTW's forum based modding community. The curia is no longer integral to running the site. The curia creates awards to protect it's own sense of importance.
    Why I'm still trying I have no idea, but I think the crux of the issue here lies in the first half of the first sentence.To prioritize the curia with proposals like these when the site is certainly not building a base and suffering from major structural issues caused by overlaps and outdates is a waste of energy.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Creation of the Senator Class Proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    2004 - The site was growing. RTW was on the horizon and an influx of new members was fairly consistent. The curia was born. The curia creates awards to heighten interest in the site and give it's members a sense of belonging.

    2019 - The site is shrinking. New games are far removed from RTW's forum based modding community. The curia is no longer integral to running the site. The curia creates awards to protect it's own sense of importance.
    The Curia was created to heighten the site. That much is true. Citizens role is to heighten the site. The Curia importance came when it became more exclusive. Awards initially were given out with regularity. It energize the site and promoted the site. As citizenship became exclusive in matriculated to the larger awards too. It self-indulgent sense of entitlement and preservation that turn people off. The awards was a means to an end. It wasn't something that was consciously done. It was gradual, like a frog n a pot brought to slow boil.

    As noted, the primary point is to delimit citizenship to its core essence and leave the added stuff to something else. If you want to involve yourself in the site's operation, then you have an option, but it will leave the citizenship t just what it was meant to be from the beginning. There is no point in re-energizing the site, if you still leave the same mechanism that led to the downfall in place. If anyone have any better ideas, then I am all years. (Note: saying this isn't it and I don' know doesn't cut it).
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  6. #46

    Default Re: Creation of the Senator Class Proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    There is no point in re-energizing the site, if you still leave the same mechanism that led to the downfall in place.
    Do you claim that the drop of the curia is directly related to the drop of site activity?

  7. #47
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: Creation of the Senator Class Proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by Me
    The curia creates awards to heighten interest in the site and give it's members a sense of belonging.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pike
    The Curia was created to heighten the site. That much is true. Citizens role is to heighten the site.
    Never fails to amuse when you bold a sentence and then completely misinterpret it to suit your own little fantasies. Amusing because it seems you honestly believe no one notices.

    When Ian took over he introduced this very system, bar the details, in his reform. It didn't work and as Ian said himself, it was the biggest balls up he made in his time as owner (paraphrasing).

    Opposed.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Creation of the Senator Class Proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    Never fails to amuse when you bold a sentence and then completely misinterpret it to suit your own little fantasies. Amusing because it seems you honestly believe no one notices.

    When Ian took over he introduced this very system, bar the details, in his reform. It didn't work and as Ian said himself, it was the biggest balls up he made in his time as owner (paraphrasing).

    Opposed.
    I am not sure what you mean. I agree with the statement you quoted, but disagreed with the conclusion. Am I not allowed to do that?
    I supposed people do ply games with people's arguments, but I do not. I am sure that is difficult for you to comprehend that.
    BTW, just because something is called a "reform" and it was a "big decision", it doesn't mean it was a great decision in the long term.

    Quote Originally Posted by CommodusIV View Post
    Do you claim that the drop of the curia is directly related to the drop of site activity?
    First, the Curia is a place on the site. I like to avoid using the term to refer to the collective of citizens. The Curia is where citizens can come and voice their opinion about the site. It was the benefit of citizenship. Anyway, the growth of the site was connected to the creation of citizenship. The decline of the site and the decline of activity in the Curia, and the patronizing of citizens matches.
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  9. #49
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    Default Re: Creation of the Senator Class Proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    The decline of the site and the decline of activity in the Curia, and the patronizing of citizens matches.
    Are you sure about that?

    Personally, I am not so sure about that and I think there might be another reason of why Curia has declined. One reason that I think could be is likely behind Squid's decision when he proposed the abolishment of CdeC.
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  10. #50
    mishkin's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Creation of the Senator Class Proposal

    less active users means less active citizens which means less active curialists. If you want to save TWC making one in two users a citizen, say so. If you want to spoil a perfectly tuned machine (the curia) because you are bored, or for any other selfish motive, say so.
    Last edited by mishkin; October 29, 2019 at 06:03 AM.

  11. #51
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: Creation of the Senator Class Proposal

    I am not sure what you mean. I agree with the statement you quoted, but disagreed with the conclusion. Am I not allowed to do that?

    I supposed people do ply games with people's arguments, but I do not. I am sure that is difficult for you to comprehend that.

    BTW, just because something is called a "reform" and it was a "big decision", it doesn't mean it was a great decision in the long term.
    Well, you didn't agree with my statement. You interpreted my statement to suit your agenda. You've also admitted you didn't understand what I said and then inferred I was confused!. Then you do the classic ''quotation'' of something (big decision) I didn't say so you can make another irrelevant statement which ignores what I actually said.

    All that's left is for your customary six weeks of moving goal posts to keep members engaged in another futile grand scheme that has no foundation and has previously failed when the site was considerably more active.

  12. #52

    Default Re: Creation of the Senator Class Proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    Anyway, the growth of the site was connected to the creation of citizenship. The decline of the site and the decline of activity in the Curia, and the patronizing of citizens matches.
    Let me rephrase. Is the decline of the curia and related functions (citizenship and so on) a cause for the site's decline, or rather, a primary cause?

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    perfectly tuned machine (the curia)
    Pahhhhhahah... oh, er, sorry, carry on.

  13. #53
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: Creation of the Senator Class Proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by CommodusIV View Post
    Let me rephrase. Is the decline of the curia and related functions (citizenship and so on) a cause for the site's decline, or rather, a primary cause?
    Not at all. Despite some peoples belief the curia is the pivot by which the site lives or dies, in fact, it was modding that drove the sites growth and the changes in modding possibilities that has led to it's decline. Even at it's hight the curia had no remit over the modding forums and they thrived regardless, as did many other areas the curia never felt compelled to interfere with.

    The curia's decline was initiated when the content dept was created. Whether that was a good thing or not is debatable but I'm sure it removed a lot of headaches for Hex.

  14. #54
    mishkin's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Creation of the Senator Class Proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by CommodusIV View Post
    Pahhhhhahah... oh, er, sorry, carry on.
    Without altering what it is, without turning it into something else, it has a unique flaw in my opinion.

  15. #55

    Default Re: Creation of the Senator Class Proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    Not at all. Despite some peoples belief the curia is the pivot by which the site lives or dies, in fact, it was modding that drove the sites growth and the changes in modding possibilities that has led to it's decline. Even at it's hight the curia had no remit over the modding forums and they thrived regardless, as did many other areas the curia never felt compelled to interfere with.

    The curia's decline was initiated when the content dept was created. Whether that was a good thing or not is debatable but I'm sure it removed a lot of headaches for Hex.
    I do have my thoughts already existing on the matter; I specifically aim the question at him to see his clear stance as all replies I've seen relative to it have bypassed the point.

    I do agree that modding is an integral factor in the decline, and also that it is something that can be worked on. But I've been having a heck of a time compiling thoughts on it.

  16. #56
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: Creation of the Senator Class Proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by CommodusIV View Post
    I do have my thoughts already existing on the matter; I specifically aim the question at him to see his clear stance as all replies I've seen relative to it have bypassed the point.
    Aye, well you may have to trawl through much pontifical verbosity only to realise reality very seldom conforms to expectation.

    Quote Originally Posted by CommodusIV View Post
    I do agree that modding is an integral factor in the decline, and also that it is something that can be worked on. But I've been having a heck of a time compiling thoughts on it.
    From what I've seen modding is lost, at least the need for centralised forum based workshops is. There are other avenues which can be pursued but there doesn't seem to be much interest. A long known issue here, too many Chiefs too few Bucks.

  17. #57

    Default Re: Creation of the Senator Class Proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    From what I've seen modding is lost, at least the need for centralised forum based workshops is. There are other avenues which can be pursued but there doesn't seem to be much interest. A long known issue here, too many Chiefs too few Bucks.
    I wouldn't say modding, at least in some capacity, is necessarily lost unless we're attempting to rival in hosting mods for modern games. Playing up the resource angle could prove useful, but that said, there are certainly other avenues that could do the place some good. But I digress; I'd enjoy a talk about this, but I reckon I shouldn't take it so far in here where the main linkage back to the main point is that there are plenty of things that can be done, and this does not approach the priorities on a wider scale.

  18. #58
    PikeStance's Avatar ⚜️ Omnipresent ⚜️
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    Default Re: Creation of the Senator Class Proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    Well, you didn't agree with my statement. You interpreted my statement to suit your agenda. You've also admitted you didn't understand what I said and then inferred I was confused!. Then you do the classic ''quotation'' of something (big decision) I didn't say so you can make another irrelevant statement which ignores what I actually said.
    All that's left is for your customary six weeks of moving goal posts to keep members engaged in another futile grand scheme that has no foundation and has previously failed when the site was considerably more active.
    I never intimated that you were confused at all. Of course, you reiterated that I play games with what people say. This is not true, but this something you seem to enjoy doing if you are claiming that you are "confused."
    I have a right to agree with your statements in part. I am not obligated to agree with or disagree with the whole point in its entirety.

    How is any of this productive? We ave a difference of opinion. I have mine and you can have yours. Leave it at that and chill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    Are you sure about that?
    Personally, I am not so sure about that and I think there might be another reason of why Curia has declined. One reason that I think could be is likely behind Squid's decision when he proposed the abolishment of CdeC.
    Quote Originally Posted by CommodusIV View Post
    Let me rephrase. Is the decline of the curia and related functions (citizenship and so on) a cause for the site's decline, or rather, a primary cause?
    Pahhhhhahah... oh, er, sorry, carry on.
    The CdeC is in part responsible for the elitism of citizenship. Its removal was probably too little too late. However, it had an even worse side effect. It left the Curia without defined procedures. The Curia spent years "fixing" the problem. It led to unnecessary bitterness. Moreover, the constant fight between promoting citizenship and promoting an "egalitarian" view has tarnished the reputation of the Curia and citizenship as a whole. Indifference and frustration with the site meant that many users voices were not being heard. As a consequence, the site did not evolve and adapt. Now, we have a boated site with only a fraction of active members.

    The answer is not has black and white has you presented it. Citizenship became exclusive. The site projected "exclusivity" and the general membership reacted, understandably, with indifference.

    In my PMs groups and provate steam communications I have had with modders and others, this is exactly what has been communicated to me.
    The appeal of the site is not what brought them here, but what made them stayed. Right now, there isn't anything to keep anyone interested for long. Opening citizenship as it was in the beginning would be a positive step. Scraping the system won't keep anyone here, so a look back what has worked could help us rebuild.
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  19. #59

    Default Re: Creation of the Senator Class Proposal

    I had my clear answer directly out of the CCT, funny enough. With it, I can only shrug and beg to differ, and I suppose wish you well as I consider the merits of attempting to strike closer to the true source. That, alas, will not nearly be so simple.

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