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Thread: Seriously... What's wrong with film critics?!

  1. #161
    mishkin's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Seriously... What's wrong with film critics?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Common Soldier View Post
    Rather typical of you to attack the persons rather than their arguments, but entirely up bderstandable since you dont have the arguments to counter thr claims.
    Yeah typical mishkin, right?

    As for devoting so much time to one movie, it was because it was a particularly egregious example of the topic of the thread, of what was wrong with the critics. The gap between the The Last Jedi and the audience perception was among the largest of any movie. Extensive discussion and examples were needed to show why the TLJ was truly a not very good movie. You could have countered the arguments made with actual facts, but instead just chose to make unsuppported assertions as you are doing here.
    In previous pages I have shown examples of other films with wide differences between criticism and audience. I've also alluded to campaigns launched by certain groups, at least misogynist, to boycott this movie because they consider, like you, that the last jedi is part of some anti (white) men / feminazi campaign, something that is so ridiculous that, again my apologies, I will not waste time responding.

    The fact that some consider that there is a hidden agenda behind this movie is what makes that movie "special", not a difference in punctuation in any web page.
    Last edited by mishkin; November 16, 2019 at 03:24 PM.

  2. #162

    Default Re: Seriously... What's wrong with film critics?!

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    Yeah typical mishkin, right?
    Glad you acknowledge it.

    In previous pages I have shown examples of other films with wide differences between criticism and audience. I've also alluded to campaigns launched by certain groups, at least misogynist, to boycott this movie because they consider, like you, that the last jedi is part of some anti (white) men / feminazi campaign, something that is so ridiculous that, again my apologies, I will not waste time responding.
    Just like you are doing here, you you made assertions without any real.facts or argumnents to back them up, and just as you are doing here, you say "I will not waste my time responding" rather than argue the point. You continue, to engage just as you do now, in ad hominem attacks without actually providing real arguments. If you are just going to engage in ad hominem attacks, just as you are now, why are you still.posting at all?

    If you are just going to provide insults without any real argument to back up your claims, you should stop posting.


    The fact that some consider that there is a hidden agenda behind this movie is what makes that movie "special", not a difference in punctuation in any web page.
    Again, just assertions without anything to back up your claims. When you see Kathleen Kennedy wearing a t-shirt saying the "Thr Force is Female", one is not unjustified in claiming an agenda.


    You keep asserting those who criticize the movie have a secret agenda, but you really are the one with the agenda. The rest are merely trying to explain how what really is not a very good movie got so highly rated by the critics. The fact you feel compelled to constantly criticize and was the dark.motives to those who think the critics were so clearly wrong, shows you are really the one with the agenda.

  3. #163
    mishkin's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Seriously... What's wrong with film critics?!

    I get the feeling that if the protagonist was a bad### man, criticism of the dresses, the alleged personality of secondary characters or lack of realism would seem to you as ridiculous as they seem to me now. As ridiculous or unimportant as they resemble to most professional film critics, fortunately none of them glorious fighters against that enemy of modern society, feminism. (I hope you can appreciate the sarcasm in the last sentence).

  4. #164
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Seriously... What's wrong with film critics?!

    ^If she was a man that wouldn't change the fact that the movie was trash and had a ridiculous premise. If anything, that she was a woman should signify how even the gender was carelessly thrown in like everything else, serving no purpose and certainly not promoting feminism or having any other positive result.
    Really, Mishkin, just how is in your view women's lives promoted by having a female protagonist who does something stupid and becomes a meme? If the director/writers were good and they had an intelligent plot then maybe it would help, but as things stand it just is more of the same random garbage.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










  5. #165
    mishkin's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Seriously... What's wrong with film critics?!

    Kyriakos, what you have said about the last jedi can be said about any other star wars movie.

    When did I said something about women lifes promoted? Rey is a meme? Seriously, I missed that. Where is she a meme?

  6. #166
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Seriously... What's wrong with film critics?!

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    Kyriakos, what you have said about the last jedi can be said about any other star wars movie.

    When did I said something about women lifes promoted? Rey is a meme? Seriously, I missed that. Where is she a meme?
    I thought we were talking about:

    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










  7. #167
    mishkin's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Seriously... What's wrong with film critics?!

    I'm sorry, I don't know what you mean with that picture.

  8. #168
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Seriously... What's wrong with film critics?!

    It's ok, as long as you know this one:



    The others don't matter.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










  9. #169

    Default Re: Seriously... What's wrong with film critics?!

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    Rey is a meme? Seriously, I missed that. Where is she a meme?
    On the internet?

  10. #170
    mishkin's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Seriously... What's wrong with film critics?!

    you may have ever heard that "the internet" is a fairly large place.
    Last edited by mishkin; November 18, 2019 at 03:10 PM.

  11. #171

    Default Re: Seriously... What's wrong with film critics?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Common Soldier View Post
    The fact Disney didn't fire or replace Kennedy demonstrates that Disney supports that agenda, even over making profits.
    Damn, you have a talent for comedy. Or not. In that case, the whole thing is kind of sad, isn't it?
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  12. #172

    Default Re: Seriously... What's wrong with film critics?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gromovnik View Post
    Damn, you have a talent for comedy. Or not. In that case, the whole thing is kind of sad, isn't it?

    It is not surprising you are just like Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson, who instead of answer the criticism of work just engage in ad hominem attacks on the persons, nor their arguments.

    It is really sad that instead of providing real arguments.all you can do is make attack the people, not their argument. Thank you for proving my point.

    That is why I think the Emperor's New Clothes story was unrealistic - even if a little kid did point out the emperor was naked, the people and the emperor in real life would never admit it, and just attack the kid for pointing it out. Just as you are doing here.


    I will say upon reflection that replacing Kathleen Kennedy just because of criticism by some people would not have have been a good idea for Disney. While it might have appeased some of her critics, it likely would have angered some of her fans, and given out of the 4 Star Wars films she has overseen, 3 of them made.lots of money they had no real reason. Even the best producer and director has a flop now and then, one failure hardly justifies her removal. If The Rise of Skywalker also fails, maybe rhen Disney would have grounds, but I don't see TROS being a flop. At worst, it might not make as much money as it could have had with someone else in charge, but that is something you could never prove.

    And if TROS makes a lot of money, then Disney should continue to keep her in charge. While I think better Star Wars movies like be made with someone else in charge, unltimarely it is about profits, and overall she has delivered. I think someone else could have made even more.but that can never be proven either way.

    I wonder if the critics really have become more divergent from the general audience taste, or whether we are just more aware of it now? I know there was always going to be come difference between the critics, who see many times more new movies a year, and the general audience. It seems like it has gotten a lot worse, but perhaps that is an illusion.

    I would be curious how many of those same critics would rate the original Star Wars movie. Most of them would not have been critics when the original came out. I knew someone who was served mashed turnips but thought they were masked potatoes. She though they were the best mashed potatoes she ever had, but then she didn't like mash potatoes. Perhaps the critics who rated TLJ highly really don't like Star Wars or science fiction and fantasy films.

    Most people who don't like fantasy or science fiction think you don't need any logic in them because it is all "fantasy", so that means you can do whatever you like. Of course, they are dead wrong, ehixhnis why they not written or directed any great work of fantasy or science fiction.

  13. #173

    Default Re: Seriously... What's wrong with film critics?!

    OK, let's try another approach. Do you have any proof that Disney is producing over 9000 Star Wars flicks not to make money, but because they have an agenda to push?
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  14. #174

    Default Re: Seriously... What's wrong with film critics?!

    Fact of the matter is Kennedy oversees all of Star Wars and only one movie so far can be called an outright failure while another has brought story criticisms but hardly been a business failure. Everything else is being eaten up. From the standpoint of what she actually supervises she’s not on bad ground and is adjusting for better.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  15. #175

    Default Re: Seriously... What's wrong with film critics?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Fact of the matter is Kennedy oversees all of Star Wars and only one movie so far can be called an outright failure while another has brought story criticisms but hardly been a business failure. Everything else is being eaten up. From the standpoint of what she actually supervises she’s not on bad ground and is adjusting for better.
    She has made 4 movies, and one was a clear failure. Given the Star Wars brand, where success was virtually guaranteed, a 75% success rate is not quite as good as it seems. And Disney Star Wars Lands seems to be struggling, which despite the spin masters attempt to show otherwise, can be blamed on Kennedy. She deliberately alienated the very people who would have been most likely be the ones to go to Star Wars Land.

  16. #176

    Default Re: Seriously... What's wrong with film critics?!

    You keep focusing on just the movies in spite of participating in the Star Wars thread. You’re either lying to us or to yourself.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  17. #177

    Default Re: Seriously... What's wrong with film critics?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    You keep focusing on just the movies in spite of participating in the Star Wars thread. You’re either lying to us or to yourself.

    And you keep attacking the character of a person instead of discussing their arguments. The movies are most definitely part of the Star Wars thread, even 8f 4hey are not the biggest part.

    I was responding to your comments. I agree, 5h5 given Kathleen Kenned-y's success so far, financially, 8t would not make any sense for Disney to replace her, and they won't unless The Rise of Skywalker fails financially, which I don't see happening.

    After seeing Disney Star Wars movies,I don't have much interest or expectation of Mandolorean or much else Disney is go8 g to do, but some of what I have read sounds promising, but not handy Yoda, 3hicu is a turn 9ff.for me.

    There was a wealth of Star Wars fcitin, professional and fan, 2hixh Disney choice to throw out. Frankly, the wealth of existing Star Wars fiction could have been a valuable source to tap into to create new movies and shows, and made better shows than Disney has made or seems planning to make as far as I can see. But that is Disney's right.

    I don't thinknit is a good business model to go out of your way to alienate long time fans in the hope of attracting new ones, but that seems Disney plan, and it is their property. While I th8nk it was possible to attract new fans without alienating and deliberately upsetting old fans, that is not what Disney chose to do.

    I understand that it is best for Disney to concentrate on developing a.new can base, and if that meant upsetting a few old.fans, so beit, but I still think Disney could have attracted new fans without alienating a number of old fans as they did. So far.Disney strategy seems to have worked, but it really was The Last Jedi that alienated a lot of long time Star Wars fan, most liked Rogue One, and while the The Force Awakens wasn't the best Star Wars film, they didn't loathe it the way they did The Last Jedi.

    It will be interesting to see how well The Rise of Skywalker will do. The trailers were playing up that it was the end of a journey, implying it would be the last Star Wars film, and normally that should have guaranteed it to be a super blockbuster, I thinkk that many of the long rime fans of the original.Star Wars and that isnenti3ely due to Kennedy. While I can't see The Rise of Skywalker failing, it won't be as big a success. As it should have been.

  18. #178

    Default Re: Seriously... What's wrong with film critics?!

    What I'm saying is she's either doing good in tv(Mandalorian, Rebels), books(holy ...too many to list), comics(holy too many to sift much lest list), or you just think she's bad because one movie was definitively bad(Solo: A Star Wars Story).

    Remember, she runs it all. Not just the movies.

    Is there a better way to run it? Probably. If she wants to run it all, I'd get her a sub-executive that's good in each field to help her run each field and coordinate each field. But that's me. Star Wars is BIG. Something is bound to collapse if she runs it on her own. Just cuz' she's not the original creator.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  19. #179

    Default Re: Seriously... What's wrong with film critics?!

    Still waiting for any evidence of a conspiracy/agenda...
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  20. #180
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Seriously... What's wrong with film critics?!

    I personally don't approach the movie thing as a conspiracy. It seems to be more about being a hack and signaling stuff which are political and hit the right albeit rather obtuse note. Ultimately, movies should be about artistic merit, not political hackery.
    I don't care at all about the star wars franchise in the first place, so it's not like this means anything to me.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










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