Seriously... What's wrong with film critics?!

[Love Mountain]

I telling you it doesn't make it necessarily a good or relevant movie. That is my point.

It also doesn't make it a bad movie. Disliking a movie's politics is different from disliking a movie based on its merits. The people in this thread, including you, have attempted to connect the two. They're not.

And the so called fight against macho societies today, it resumes itself very often in what men should and shouldn't watch, or consume, how to dress, how to sit, and how to speak, what art should be showed and shouldn't on women's anatomy, what comedy is acceptable and which isn't, in the views of a modern feminist lens. We are worried about lowering grades requisitions for women only to enter in university engineer courses.
With things like Mansplaning, and manspreading, and other superficial nonsensical stuff. In Germany for example there is already sex segregated cars on subway, not unlike those you see in Indonesia, Iran, Egypt and such, plans for doing it in UK, and Australia exist as well. In Spain Manspreading is a actually a thing, and you get fined because of it.
We are walking backwards in a lot of ways. Due to this neo Puritanism, and identitarianism. Which in my opinion, it only fuels the extremes.

This is detached from reality. It's not "feminists" dictating what is or is not acceptable on the big screen. It's money. If movies don't do well financially, that's not the fault of "feminists" or "political correctness". I keep being told that these "anti-liberals" or "SJWs" represent a tiny minority, yet how does this minority prevent you or me, or your neighbor from spending their cash on a film? Do these SJWs patrol your living rooms? These complaints are an absurdity. You know what these "anti-SJW" rants are? An attempt to distill problems of society into a single point.

Modern feminism in our societies generally speaking is also quite ideological bankrupt. Mostly influenced by far left post modernist ideologies. Usually conflating Patriarchal system with capitalism for example.
Im an egalitarian, and im for freedom. This we are seeing today? it is not the way to fight for it. Imo it fuels division even more.

Considering that capitalism was dominated, for almost its entire existence, by men, Feminist critique of capitalism is far from being "ideologically bankrupt." I don't agree with everything feminists say, I also think that "toxic feminism" exists. However, the majority of feminist critique is entirely reasonable and does not attempt to "destroy men", whatever that means. The fact that the vast majority of alt-right nerds and speakers like Jordan Peterson like to focus on relatively harmless or clueless protesters, or worse, genuinely well-meaning figures like Anita Sarkeesian, tells me everything I need to know about these particular viewpoints. They're worthless and not worth an iota of thought.

[Knight of Heaven]

It also doesn't make it a bad movie. Disliking a movie's politics is different from disliking a movie based on its merits. The people in this thread, including you, have attempted to connect the two. They're not.

There is a difference between writing a story with care about what is being told. And activists writers that are focused more in making their message across, then actually tell a good story.
The cases are actually quite frequent.
They are connected more times they are not. Unfortunately.

This is detached from reality. It's not "feminists" dictating what is or is not acceptable on the big screen. It's money. If movies don't do well financially, that's not the fault of "feminists" or "political correctness". I keep being told that these "anti-liberals" or "SJWs" represent a tiny minority, yet how does this minority prevent you or me, or your neighbor from spending their cash on a film? Do these SJWs patrol your living rooms? These complaints are an absurdity. You know what these "anti-SJW" rants are? An attempt to distill problems of society into a single point.

Sure and backlash, and the level of salt for a movie like joker earning all those nominations dont exist either. For example.
Oh the last one is criticizing 1917 movie for lack of women in it...Or directors blaming men for not seeing, charlie angels, or the new remake of Little women.
There is SJW rants because SJW rants exist. That much is obvious to me. Who is trying to distill problems of society into a single point now ?

Considering that capitalism was dominated, for almost its entire existence, by men, Feminist critique of capitalism is far from being "ideologically bankrupt." I don't agree with everything feminists say, I also think that "toxic feminism" exists. However, the majority of feminist critique is entirely reasonable and does not attempt to "destroy men", whatever that means. The fact that the vast majority of alt-right nerds and speakers like Jordan Peterson like to focus on relatively harmless or clueless protesters, or worse, genuinely well-meaning figures like Anita Sarkeesian, tells me everything I need to know about these particular viewpoints. They're worthless and not worth an iota of thought.

Hilarious really. you lost me at well meaning Anita Sarkeesian.... The same chic that is living a great life in morocco while her former workers and colleagues at feminist frequency, starve? You should look at that story pal.
It isn't only alt right nerds that critique modern feminists. Lots of women too. Former feminists, and academics and such. Camille Paglia, Janice Fiamengo, karen straughan, Cassie Jay and others.
The issue with the feminist critique of capitalism, is that it stems from an ideologically influenced position. A Marxist or far left position. And it is obvious that influence is going to bankrupt the core ideals of feminism. The same way when activists try to paint the fight for climate change in the same manner. As if those things are inherently left wing. They aren't.

BTW im a centrist myself, and im always wary of politics that revolve around an identity group. Be it gender, race , or social class etc. Nothing good ever came from that historically.

[Love Mountain]

There is a difference between writing a story with care about what is being told. And activists writers that are focused more in making their message across, then actually tell a good story.
The cases are actually quite frequent.
They are connected more times they are not. Unfortunately.

I'm not trying to be short or antagonistic here KoH, but I genuinely don't understand what you're trying to say here. To reiterate, the quality of a film is independent of whether you find its politics agreeable or not. You may well hate a movie because it's obvious feminist agenda, that doesn't make it a bad film.

Sure and backlash, and the level of salt for a movie like joker earning all those nominations dont exist either. For example.
Oh the last one is criticizing 1917 movie for lack of women in it...Or directors blaming men for not seeing, charlie angels, or the new remake of Little women.
There is SJW rants because SJW rants exist. That much is obvious to me. Who is trying to distill problems of society into a single point now ?

We've been over the case of Joker rather exhaustively. While some reviewers who write for Slate (Cosmopolitan Progressive), Jacobin (Socialist), and The Bubbling Blonde (Feminist), most reviewers found entirely legitimate reasons to dislike the movie. I'm also not sure what you're on about with 1917. If you want to scour the Internet for "SJW" critique of any movie, you certainly can, but the fact is, 1917 holds a near universal acclaim of 90% on rotten tomatoes.

If you're trying fish for "SJWs ruining X", you'll certainly find it, but that's because you're deliberately looking for it, not because something tangible is there.

Hilarious really. you lost me at well meaning Anita Sarkeesian.... The same chic that is living a great life in morocco while her former workers and colleagues at feminist frequency, starve? You should look at that story pal.

The fact that you find this to be "hilarious" says a lot. Tell me, what great crime has she committed?

It isn't only alt right nerds that critique modern feminists. Lots of women too. Former feminists, and academics and such. Camille Paglia, Janice Fiamengo, karen straughan, Cassie Jay and others.
The issue with the feminist critique of capitalism, is that it stems from an ideologically influenced position. A Marxist or far left position. And it is obvious that influence is going to bankrupt the core ideals of feminism.

And...?

The same way when activists try to paint the fight for climate change in the same manner. As if those things are inherently left wing. They aren't.

I have no idea what you're referring to here.

BTW im a centrist myself, and im always wary of politics that revolve around an identity group. Be it gender, race , or social class etc. Nothing good ever came from that historically.

If you're expecting to earn kudos for "centrism" you aren't going to find it for me. As far as I'm concerned, "Centrist" is just code for, "actually pretty right-wing, but I want to pretend I'm not."

[Knight of Heaven]

If you're expecting to earn kudos for "centrism" you aren't going to find it for me. As far as I'm concerned, "Centrist" is just code for, "actually pretty right-wing, but I want to pretend I'm not."

The fact that you think this, says a lot really.

Im pretty much a European centrist, a social democrat. And that encompass both right wing, to left wing parties.
Also you are implying being right wing is a pretty horrible thing to be, that people need to pretend to be centrist? or maybe You just dont know the definition of centrism. It is how far people this days have gone i suppose.
Well People who have that view of yours definitely dont deserve kudos that's for sure.

And...?

And that is a Radical view.

Far left economic propaganda masked as gender egalitarianism. The problem is if you aren't on board with said economic view, you suddenly are viewed as enemy of women. Which is a pretty radical point of view.

Tell me, what great crime has she committed?

As part of click bait industry, Anita is a joke first and foremost. As is you thinking she is well meaning.
Sure video games are misogynistic, because they have skimpy women in it. lol
Puritanism is also a hallmark of the new age feminism. Which is ironic to say the least.

We've been over the case of Joker rather exhaustively. While some reviewers who write for Slate (Cosmopolitan Progressive), Jacobin (Socialist), and The Bubbling Blonde (Feminist), most reviewers found entirely legitimate reasons to dislike the movie.

Obviously im talking about the non reasonable reasons to dislike the movie. Basing their critiques on assumptions that the movie is a far right wing reflection. While the actual politics in the movie couldn't be more liberal. Its about the haves vs the have nots. And how the Haves treat the have nots. A better case couldn't be made, against the elites and the media run by them, and how they treat the others who are struggling, at the bottom of society. Also a take how society in general, but the media in America handles Mental illness.

I'm also not sure what you're on about with 1917. If you want to scour the Internet for "SJW" critique of any movie, you certainly can, but the fact is, 1917 holds a near universal acclaim of 90% on rotten tomatoes.

Sure you have a point there, but that doesn't invalidate we point out the finger to stupid critiques.

[athanaric]

Considering that capitalism was dominated, for almost its entire existence, by men, Feminist critique of capitalism is far from being "ideologically bankrupt."

Oddly enough, "critique of capitalism" is somehow always accompanied by praise of Marxism...

[...] genuinely well-meaning figures like Anita Sarkeesian [...]

Dude are you for real?

[Love Mountain]

The fact that you think this, says a lot really.

Im pretty much a European centrist, a social democrat. And that encompass both right wing, to left wing parties.
Also you are implying being right wing is a pretty horrible thing to be, that people need to pretend to be centrist? or maybe You just dont know the definition of centrism. It is how far people this days have gone i suppose.
Well People who have that view of yours definitely dont deserve kudos that's for sure.

Oh really? What does it say about me? Do tell. I haven't hidden my political views, but this pretense of being "centrist" when you parrot right-wing talking points is absurd.

And that is a Radical view.

Far left economic propaganda masked as gender egalitarianism. The problem is if you aren't on board with said economic view, you suddenly are viewed as enemy of women. Which is a pretty radical point of view.

There is nothing radical about a Marxist critique of capitalism. This has been around for literally a century and has made important contributions to global discourse. The fact that Europe maintains large welfare state is thanks to Marxist pressure on conservative governments during the 1900s. Not because of capitalist compassion. Then again Germans also refuse to understand what "Keynesianism" is and have insisted on forcing Austerity down everybody's throats, so who knows what Germans believe. Perhaps they really do think that pensions, healthcare, and labor rights are due to capitalism, instead of labor movements.

As part of click bait industry, Anita is a joke first and foremost. As is you thinking she is well meaning.
Sure video games are misogynistic, because they have skimpy women in it. lol
Puritanism is also a hallmark of the new age feminism. Which is ironic to say the least.

Being a "joke" and being "well-meaning" are not mutually exclusive. I ask again, what is so offensive and dangerous about what she is saying? I've watched a number of alt-right nerds rant about Anita Sarkeesian without seeing what is so horrific about what she is saying. I don't agree or respect her views, but the level of vitriol displayed by you and athanaric and alt-right commentators is indicative of your own political views and "intolerance" for any ideas that deviate outside of your narrow Overton windows.

Obviously im talking about the non reasonable reasons to dislike the movie. Basing their critiques on assumptions that the movie is a far right wing reflection. While the actual politics in the movie couldn't be more liberal. Its about the haves vs the have nots. And how the Haves treat the have nots. A better case couldn't be made, against the elites and the media run by them, and how they treat the others who are struggling, at the bottom of society. Also a take how society in general, but the media in America handles Mental illness.

All criticism of films is valid. Whether it is feminist, whether it is political, whether it is nationalist. My issue isn't with people disliking a film because they don't like gay or feminist agenda that's (allegedly) in any one film. My issue with people like Cookiegod, and others in this echo-chamber thread, is that feminist critique or feminist ideas are somehow invalid or unworthy of consideration simply because you didn't like the film. My issue is with immediately attributing "failure" of critics to their "SJW" or "feminist" tendencies instead of believing that they found something legitimately wrong with the film. Or even worse, that they are unable to distinguish good films from bad films because they must be judging films on how closely they adhere to "leftist agenda". This is childish.

What's even worse, is that I entirely agree that films should be and can be judged separately on their technical merits and the "quality" of their political message. Yet what you, athanaric, and others do is exactly the same thing you accuse others of doing. We are, once again, spending time discussing why "feminism" or other political ideas can "ruin" a film, despite earlier pages being dedicated to how professional critics don't judge films fairly and instead judge films on how closely they are related to feminist agenda.

In other words. This isn't a thread about film criticism. This is a thread dedicated to hashtag screw feminism.

Sure you have a point there, but that doesn't invalidate we point out the finger to stupid critiques.

You can point your finger at whatever you want, I'm simply pointing out the blatant hypocrisy.

Oddly enough, "critique of capitalism" is somehow always accompanied by praise of Marxism...

I somehow doubt you understand my economic views. But be a dear, describe them to me. They're pretty easily found in this Forum and I've made no effort to hide them.

Dude are you for real?

Why don't you show me a clip of where Anita Sarkeesian calls for a genocide of men or something to that effect. Go on. Show me something that warrants the vitriol you display.

[Gromovnik]

Sheeeit, son. You mentioned Anita to the boys. Now get ready to hear all about ethics in video game journalism.

[Kyriakos]

I didn't know Anita was still a thing. To me she is a scammer in pretty much the way that clown SargonofAkkad is for the far right; no talent and just a web warrior turned icon for all the wrong reasons.

[Cookiegod]

This is detached from reality. It's not "feminists" dictating what is or is not acceptable on the big screen. It's money. If movies don't do well financially, that's not the fault of "feminists" or "political correctness". I keep being told that these "anti-liberals" or "SJWs" represent a tiny minority, yet how does this minority prevent you or me, or your neighbor from spending their cash on a film? Do these SJWs patrol your living rooms? These complaints are an absurdity. You know what these "anti-SJW" rants are? An attempt to distill problems of society into a single point.

I fully agree with you on money, not politics being the primary motivator. However, you don't jump from there to the quite obvious conclusion that what politics Star Wars has come up with is quite disingenuous. Instead, your side has been quite insistent on portraying anyone criticising this to be against the message itself.

Considering that capitalism was dominated, for almost its entire existence, by men, Feminist critique of capitalism is far from being "ideologically bankrupt."

Really? When? If you check the numbers you'll see quite consistently that women are behind the majority of the consumer decisions. So that claim is bull even as it gets repeated over and over again.

The fact that the vast majority of alt-right nerds and speakers like Jordan Peterson like to focus on relatively harmless or clueless protesters, or worse, genuinely well-meaning figures like Anita Sarkeesian, tells me everything I need to know about these particular viewpoints. They're worthless and not worth an iota of thought.

Yes, everyone who doesn't conform to your world view has to be alt-right. The fact that you accuse them of bundling others into one group whilst in the very same breath doing exactly that is quite ironic.

[Cope]

Being a "joke" and being "well-meaning" are not mutually exclusive. I ask again, what is so offensive and dangerous about what she is saying? I've watched a number of alt-right nerds rant about Anita Sarkeesian without seeing what is so horrific about what she is saying. I don't agree or respect her views, but the level of vitriol displayed by you and athanaric and alt-right commentators is indicative of your own political views and "intolerance" for any ideas that deviate outside of your narrow Overton windows.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Cookiegod]

hey guys I wanna make a Discord server but I can't afford it in spite of millions of dollars in donations I have received without ever putting out what I promised, even though the funding for those were more than enough. But I'm so well meaning, so I'll only need 35000$ to make a Discord server which doesn't cost anything and takes less than 5 mins to make.

Let me also point out sexism in Hitman by abusing and killing strippers even though the game goes out of its way to disincentivise that and punishes the player for it.

Wanna know who Anita Sarkeesian is least well meaning towards? Her fans! And just like with Star Wars it's ridiculous how they not only fail to notice they're being taken for a ride, but go after anyone who dares to question their idols motives or claims.

[Derc]

Seriously... What's wrong with film critics?!

Don't know what you're talking about?!

[Gromovnik]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Daaayum, Anita Sarkeesian destroyed with FACTS & LOGIC!

[Gromovnik]

Yes, everyone who doesn't conform to your world view has to be alt-right. The fact that you accuse them of bundling others into one group whilst in the very same breath doing exactly that is quite ironic.

So, "vast majority of alt-right nerds and speakers like Jordan Peterson" means everyone?

[Cookiegod]

I might have missed something since I don't watch his videos, but afaik he isn't alt right.

[Kyriakos]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Damnnnnnnn. I couldn't laugh at this, but yes, he did illustrate the point very directly.

[athanaric]

I might have missed something since I don't watch his videos, but afaik he isn't alt right.

Just like "Nazi" and "racism", people are using "alt-right" as a catch-all term for ideas they don't like for some emotional reason. Most of the time, it doesn't have anything to do with the actual alt-right. Also, why are all these Star Wars critique videos so damn long? I don't want to sit through a two-hour analysis of a mediocre movie.

[Love Mountain]

I didn't know Anita was still a thing. To me she is a scammer in pretty much the way that clown SargonofAkkad is for the far right; no talent and just a web warrior turned icon for all the wrong reasons.

The issue with Sargon is that he is actually an idiot.

I fully agree with you on money, not politics being the primary motivator. However, you don't jump from there to the quite obvious conclusion that what politics Star Wars has come up with is quite disingenuous. Instead, your side has been quite insistent on portraying anyone criticising this to be against the message itself.

You don't know what "my side" is.

Really? When? If you check the numbers you'll see quite consistently that women are behind the majority of the consumer decisions. So that claim is bull even as it gets repeated over and over again.

My wife or mother is deciding which movies I'm "allowed" to watch?

Yes, everyone who doesn't conform to your world view has to be alt-right. The fact that you accuse them of bundling others into one group whilst in the very same breath doing exactly that is quite ironic.

Every person is unique. In fact, almost everyone can claim to have a unique perspective and refuse to be bundled in any ideology. If somebody doesn't like being bundled as alt-right, they're welcome to stop parroting their talking points.

Just like "Nazi" and "racism", people are using "alt-right" as a catch-all term for ideas they don't like for some emotional reason. Most of the time, it doesn't have anything to do with the actual alt-right. Also, why are all these Star Wars critique videos so damn long? I don't want to sit through a two-hour analysis of a mediocre movie.

See above.

[Kyriakos]

^Maybe Anita is mostly trolling without being as oblivious to how false her points are, while Sargon simply believes the garbage he spews

[Love Mountain]

I don’t agree with, well anything, Anita says, but I don’t find what she says as particularly offensive. It’s certainly a viewpoint. Sargon has zero substance.