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Thread: I just rarely get to play open battles.

  1. #1

    Default I just rarely get to play open battles.

    Note that this is a problem I have in most of RTW2 and ATW, not just DeI, but it hurts me the most in DeI cause of all the amazing detail and hard work that goes to make the battles immersive and interesting.

    Anyway, the reason for this is that in these later TW games, its usually full stack gallore, there are rarely medium sized armies. Due to garrisons you really have to bring at least two armies, with ofc one at least being full stack. So usually what happens is that me or the ai brings two or more armies together and then with them, smash settlements or armies one by one, so auto-resolve is king.
    Now sometimes the AI has two or more armies and as do I, but that is rare in early-mid game, and when it does we kinda have a mexican stand off.

    So in the end, if at all play a battle, I end up mostly defending settlements or playing as a severe underdog, or the worst option, I am forced to play those multi-stack titanic battles that make your head hurt. What annoys me the most about them is that I cannot chose which unit to get as reinforcement, but that's an old tw problem. Though, I kinda am forced to play more naval battles, I guess there everything is fine.


    This problem really annoys me, cause at one side I am in full support of garrisons, at the other time they are the root cause of the problem, cause they give a huge advantage to the defending faction which forces the attacker bring at least 1.5 stack, even to conquer a minor settlement, cause the risk of a garrison+stack relief is serious. Maybe, armies decreasing armies movement points could help with this, it would maybe force armies to meet in field between settlements. I remember playing Warhammer I and II, that this issue was not as big, but I can't quite tell why, cause the surefire attacks on minor settlements are still there.

    But perhaps its my own playstyle that causes this, maybe I just play to conservatively, and thus am rarely forced by the ai to engage in open battle. Or the Auto-Resolve helps the player.

  2. #2

    Default Re: I just rarely get to play open battles.

    Made a mod that might help with this. Forces field battles in non-port minor settlements.

    http://www.mediafire.com/file/gg6pos...tles.pack/file

  3. #3

    Default Re: I just rarely get to play open battles.

    Totally agree. Here's what you need to do -- get the SaveParser and use the set movement to increase the speed of your armies. If an enemy army has been diseased, replenish them.

    You gotta have self discipline -- don't use the money cheat -- but other than that it is a godsend and has dramatically improved the number of battles i fight.

    Game of the Fates
    Mod of the week on hold -- I've played nearly every RTW mod out there.
    BOYCOTT THE USE OF SMILEYS! (Okay, just once)
    Antiochos VII...last true scion of the Seleucid dynasty...rest in peace, son of Hellas.
    I've returned--please forgive my long absence.

  4. #4

    Default Re: I just rarely get to play open battles.

    I understand what you mean. I've noticed this too when playing RTWII and with DeI. So to combat this I actively engage enemy armies that I find out and about as sort of immersion based and once they are wiped out, go for any settlement nearby that they could have defended from inside.

    What i try to avoid is when the AI puts their 20 stack (in my case 41 stack armies with 2x units lol) inside a settlement or worse walled cities, battle get really bogged down fast! Plus not to mention if it's not in late game, good luck trying to take a portion of a wall without artillery. You'll have to sacrifice a few units just to gain a foothold in the city. That's why I only manually play sieges when i know i can absolutely win without huge losses. Kinda historical if you think about it. Attackers suffer huge losses when trying to storm defended settlements/cities in ancient times i guess.

  5. #5

    Default Re: I just rarely get to play open battles.

    I'm not sure why but before I never saw grand campaign map as a huge problem of Rome II, it was good to me. Now I think it is just a big flaw and drawback of this game. There is not enough cities and they are too close to each other. For example, Roma Surrectum's modded map is just marvelous, it changes a lot and gives so much to a strategy game.

    Should I say anything about CA and modding tools?

  6. #6

    Default Re: I just rarely get to play open battles.

    While I agree with this, right now I'm working on a Rome (late Polybian) vs Masallia & Lusotannan, 13,200 vs. 16,100 open field. I'll win in an auto-resolve, but that's no fun when huge open field battles rarely happen. Playing as Rome I have to super micromanage every unit, but don't have enough time to analyze the field, deploy, change unit, repeat. If I were a Successor Kingdom, I'd line-up all my pikes then just concentrate on my hammers to smash my enemies against my anvils (which don't require so much micromanaging).

  7. #7

    Default Re: I just rarely get to play open battles.

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernXY View Post
    While I agree with this, right now I'm working on a Rome (late Polybian) vs Masallia & Lusotannan, 13,200 vs. 16,100 open field. I'll win in an auto-resolve, but that's no fun when huge open field battles rarely happen. Playing as Rome I have to super micromanage every unit, but don't have enough time to analyze the field, deploy, change unit, repeat. If I were a Successor Kingdom, I'd line-up all my pikes then just concentrate on my hammers to smash my enemies against my anvils (which don't require so much micromanaging).
    What do you mean you have to micromanage every unit lol? Just put your Hastati in the middle with Principes on the flanks along with some sword units and velites to go around and hit the enemy on their flanks or behind once they engage your troops. Triarii behind the Hastati just in case one breaks or gets dwindled down, you can throw it in. Finally use your Cav. to kill off there own cav. (Found that if you use your Cav. to bait theirs and then attack from three sides, you'll break them with almost no losses to your own units.) first and then take out their skirmishers or hammers the anvil from right behind.

    Most of my Armies look like this:

    Princ. Princ. Hast. Hast. Hast. Hast. Hast. Hast. Princ. Princ. Gen.
    Swords Tri. Tri. Tri. Swords Cav. Cav.
    Velites Velites

    I have played almost all my field battles like this and with surrounding the enemy from all flanks after taking care of their Cav. and Skirmishers, I win every time with only around 400-600 casualties for roughly the same size armies as you. No doubt your line will hold as long as your troops don't fight for very long periods of time. (Depending on the quality of their units of course)

  8. #8

    Default Re: I just rarely get to play open battles.

    oops, That's not what it should look like. Hopefully this works

    ___Princ._Princ._Hast._Hast._Hast._Hast._Hast._Hast._Princ._Princ._____________Gen
    Swords___________Tri.________Tri.________Tri.___________Swords________Cav._Cav.
    Velites______________________________________________Velites

  9. #9

    Default Re: I just rarely get to play open battles.

    Quote Originally Posted by GeneralDeath99 View Post
    What do you mean you have to micromanage every unit lol? Just put your Hastati in the middle with Principes on the flanks along with some sword units and velites to go around and hit the enemy on their flanks or behind once they engage your troops. Triarii behind the Hastati just in case one breaks or gets dwindled down, you can throw it in. Finally use your Cav. to kill off there own cav. (Found that if you use your Cav. to bait theirs and then attack from three sides, you'll break them with almost no losses to your own units.) first and then take out their skirmishers or hammers the anvil from right behind.

    Most of my Armies look like this:

    Princ. Princ. Hast. Hast. Hast. Hast. Hast. Hast. Princ. Princ. Gen.
    Swords Tri. Tri. Tri. Swords Cav. Cav.
    Velites Velites

    I have played almost all my field battles like this and with surrounding the enemy from all flanks after taking care of their Cav. and Skirmishers, I win every time with only around 400-600 casualties for roughly the same size armies as you. No doubt your line will hold as long as your troops don't fight for very long periods of time. (Depending on the quality of their units of course)
    The major problem is it's multiple armies coming in from all around the map, including my own. I have to consolidate the army I start with, with what comes in from the three other stacks from different points surrounding the battle field if I want one major force. However there is no equally huge force for me to attack, no single battle line to create. Probably best to initially retreat all my forces to a corner, thus causing the enemies to bring their forces together as they march to the corner where there is less room to maneuver. Giving me one immense battle line to manage, rather than having several smaller ones scattered around the map.

    EDIT: Do you usually use just a cheap local sword unit, otherwise why not use Hast. or Princ.?
    Last edited by NorthernXY; October 07, 2019 at 12:26 AM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: I just rarely get to play open battles.

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernXY View Post
    The major problem is it's multiple armies coming in from all around the map, including my own. I have to consolidate the army I start with, with what comes in from the three other stacks from different points surrounding the battle field if I want one major force. However there is no equally huge force for me to attack, no single battle line to create. Probably best to initially retreat all my forces to a corner, thus causing the enemies to bring their forces together as they march to the corner where there is less room to maneuver. Giving me one immense battle line to manage, rather than having several smaller ones scattered around the map.

    EDIT: Do you usually use just a cheap local sword unit, otherwise why not use Hast. or Princ.?
    Ah, ya I see what you mean. I do the same most of the times, bring all my troops to a corner of the map and wait for my reinforcements and then attack with my whole force or wait for the AI to come to me and then out flank them if I can. If it allied reinforcements, I just let them attack first lol.

    As far as the sword units go, there are some absolutely ridiculous units with high attack and defence stats that I use as auxiliary sword units in my army that will clean house if I use them to attack a flank. Most of the time these units are what cause the mass rout on the AI when I hit them in the flank.

  11. #11

    Default Re: I just rarely get to play open battles.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Despondent Mind View Post
    I am in full support of garrisons, at the other time they are the root cause of the problem, cause they give a huge advantage to the defending faction which forces the attacker bring at least 1.5 stack, even to conquer a minor settlement
    Almost like in a real life, heh? But IRL attacking force must be at least 3 times larger than defending (according to modern doctrines).

  12. #12

    Default Re: I just rarely get to play open battles.

    Quote Originally Posted by GeneralDeath99 View Post
    As far as the sword units go, there are some absolutely ridiculous units with high attack and defence stats that I use as auxiliary sword units in my army that will clean house if I use them to attack a flank. Most of the time these units are what cause the mass rout on the AI when I hit them in the flank.
    What are your go to Sword units for flanking?

  13. #13

    Default Re: I just rarely get to play open battles.

    Quote Originally Posted by DC0 View Post
    Almost like in a real life, heh? But IRL attacking force must be at least 3 times larger than defending (according to modern doctrines).
    Real life would allow me to sally forth anytime that I want and meet the attacker on the battle field.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: I just rarely get to play open battles.

    S H H H H H S
    F E P__P__P__P__P E F
    T__T__T
    C

    H = Hastati
    P = Principes
    S = Securiferi Axemen
    F = Archers/Slingers
    E = Cavalry
    T = Triarii
    C = Commander
    Last edited by TheJackinati275; October 12, 2019 at 03:20 PM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: I just rarely get to play open battles.

    Quote Originally Posted by BooBooLovesAll View Post
    What are your go to Sword units for flanking?
    So without a doubt the best sword units i've seen that clean house are the Apuli Extraordinarii (Apulian Heavy Infantry) that you can recruit on the Italian mainland. Others that do very well are the Sicilian version of them that look similar, Italian swordsmen do well, and Securiferi Axemen also can clean house but they tend to take more damage in longer periods of engagement. I've yet to try other sword units from around the map but since these guys do so well for me, I have no need.

  16. #16

    Default Re: I just rarely get to play open battles.

    Quote Originally Posted by GeneralDeath99 View Post
    So without a doubt the best sword units i've seen that clean house are the Apuli Extraordinarii (Apulian Heavy Infantry) that you can recruit on the Italian mainland. Others that do very well are the Sicilian version of them that look similar, Italian swordsmen do well, and Securiferi Axemen also can clean house but they tend to take more damage in longer periods of engagement. I've yet to try other sword units from around the map but since these guys do so well for me, I have no need.
    Don't they disappear after certain reforms?

  17. #17

    Default Re: I just rarely get to play open battles.

    its actually quite the opposite for me.
    with population mod replenishing is very hard in newly counquered areas, i've often forced to play army vs garrison battles to lose less stuff to preserve strength

  18. #18

    Default Re: I just rarely get to play open battles.

    Quote Originally Posted by BooBooLovesAll View Post
    Don't they disappear after certain reforms?
    I'm not 100% sure, I've never actually got far enough in my campaign where i've reached even Marian reforms because some mod becomes unsupported or some major changes require a complete campaign restart. Also life has me putting the game down for some time. I'm hoping this current run i'll find out.

  19. #19

    Default Re: I just rarely get to play open battles.

    Do any of you guys use AI control-group? As stated previously, I micromanage as much as I can but massive battles force long battle lines that don't fit into my screen. So while I'm issuing orders to every unit, I miss the enemy flanking me. Going to try "defend" then select the area behind my enemy.

  20. #20
    ~Seleukos.I.Nikator~'s Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: I just rarely get to play open battles.

    I've tried it a couple of times, but the result was rather unsatisfactory. The defend command worked, however, relatively ok as compared to the attack command.

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