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Thread: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

  1. #41

    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    Why, according to you, yourself in the next sentence:

    .




    Really? I don't see anything remotely comparable in the US arsenal; even the treaty violating missile test last August by the US isn't even comparable to monsters like these:


    But wait, the US is prepared to violate yet another treaty, the Outer Space Treaty and install weapons in space if they think it will help.



    LOL, typical transference, and strawman. Unlike soft Americans who can't handle losses or casualties in war, the Chinese have a different attitude especially with respect to a US instigated war in their own backyard.

    Chinese losses to defend Chinese territory are acceptable to Chinese society; white american losses to defend US interests in Asia are not acceptable to the American public. That's why so much of the propaganda by warhawks have been "oh it'll be a cakewalk, we'll be home by Christmas".



    The coping is strong with this one. See now, China doesn't spend its time persecuting scientists and trying to teach its children all about the many different s/he/it/ze/latinx pronouns in universities. They actually get done, and in answer to your question, the PLA is happy to present you with this:

    HSU001 Underwater Drone




    That's an unmanned submersible; a drone if you will, taking the human element out of SSNs, means it can stay down there longer, monitoring american subs, assist in Chinese nuclear submarine ops, surveillance and even deploy weapons. If required, they could even be configured to perform a function similar to the Russian Status 6 undersea drone; which is to go to the Hamptons and set off its nuclear reactor so that even the American 0.001% gets more than its fair share of radiation and thermonuclear fun.

    But even more pressing for America's military pride is...why don't you tell me how the mighty white supremacist American fleet is going to do against DF-17s? The race traitor Australians in ASPI have already said there's no defence against it:
    DF-17 Hypersonic Missile





    Why, them Persians managed to bring down a RQ-170 state of the art stealth drone:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E...Q-170_incident
    in one piece no less; Chinese and Russian tech intelligence experts were on the scene.

    Now, let's assume a confrontation with the Chinese is what the Beltway elites are planning on, that is when they're not busy with pizzagate parties and trying to murder potential witnesses. China has the world's most advanced ICBM in existence, the DF-41, the furthest reach out of all existing ICBMs and MIRV capabilities, and to complete the nuclear triad, we have China's version of the B-2 stealth bomber, which itself will be AI capable negating pilot fatigue:


    BTW, the Chinese parade even has its own soundtrack, aptly named Iron Steel Torrential March:


    And footage of future Chinese tech:



    I'll be listening to that whilst playing Hearts of Iron II or TW: Three Kingdoms.






    Such boasting in the past bu Communist regimes has not proved justified. T It remains to be seen how effective these weapons will be in a real conflict. The Soviets used to have similar parades, and it led some to think that there was a missile gap between the US and the Soviet Union, but after Kennedy was elected, it proved not to be real.

    When it comes to the US fleet, China will also have to contend with the US vastly superior submarine fleet, and China's anri-submarine capabilities do not seem.that well developed. If I were a US planner, I would have my submarines mine Chinese harbors, and employ.my submarine fleet against China. US submarines carry large number anri-ship missiles they can effectively employ. Chinese close in defense systems also don't seem as developed either. China seems to suffer the typical tyrants emphasis on offense, which not as much emphasis on defense.. Defense might not be as sexy as big offensive weapons, but many times they can be more important. Japanese Zero's were great planes, but their lack of defensive armor eventually rendered them as death traps later in the war and regulated to suicide missions.

    And I would not be too sure about the US lagging in missile technology as you seem to think. Unlike Communist countries, the US often rather close lip about some of its capabilities. The US was never into showing off its latest military hardware in grandiose parades. The US is still closed lips about it's X-37B automated space shuttle, and the F117 stealth bombers were in use for years before the US acknowledged their existence. Displaying such hardware serves a propaganda purpose, and is often a bluff. From.a military viewpoint, it would be better to keep such weapons secret, and surprise the enemy with their capability. Revealing them in big fancy parades may be a way to intimidate enemies with hardware that might not be as effective as claimed. After all, we haven't seen any demo of the weapons shown in actual action.
    Last edited by Common Soldier; October 04, 2019 at 03:52 PM. Reason: spelling correction

  2. #42

    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Xi’s parade was a domestic political stunt. Whatever the capabilities of the PLA may be, they are untested, as others have pointed out. That said, it’s not really a question of any threat to the continental US. An act of war on US soil would be suicidal for the Politburo. The problem of a rising Red China is mostly one for its neighbors. The US military would most likely be wiped out in Asia if the Chinese made a successful first strike. That’s the threat posed by the PLA.


    https://www.ussc.edu.au/analysis/ave...e-indo-pacific


    Given what I might subjectively call an increasingly pervasive cultural apathy and decadence in the US, there’s no guarantee the American public could be rallied to defend our Asian allies from communist conquest, especially if the PLA were determined to make doing so extremely costly for us. The cost/benefit analysis for the Politburo in the event of war would therefore hinge on a successful first strike, followed up by an aggressive strategy of limited aims and maximum damage to US military infrastructure in Asia.


    The US would be supplying our allies across an ocean while domestic political factions feuded over who is to blame for the situation. Any attempt to leverage our most destructive capabilities to even the odds (nukes, etc) would undermine the US government in the eyes of its citizens and the world. The Chinese would be fighting on their own doorstep, cheered on by an obedient nation of psychologically curated slaves. I don’t think the US is remotely prepared for this, logistically or politically. Monied interests in the US are far more concerned with opening up branch offices in Beijing and Shanghai than they are with defeating communism in Asia, and that’s not set to change any time soon.


    The rot which created this dynamic is not the result of Chinese espionage, though the latter is certainly a factor. US corporate greed gave away our unassailable technological and financial edge in exchange for access to Chinese slave labor for decades, and gutted US economic security in a race to the bottom dollar. Now everyone acts shocked that the Chinese put their payment to good use. Hopefully nobody has to find out just how good a use that might be.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  3. #43

    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    If US assets were attacked, there is no doubt that we would strike back with a vengeance. "First Strike" is a fantasy in this day and age, in my opinion of course. IMO, an escalation and a demonstration of Chinese power would be a set of maritime laws enforced by the Chinese Navy. If China demonstrates its resolve to do so and bullies its neighbors into following them, that would be a "sign" that China is confident it can defeat USA in the Pacific. That's the key point where USA will have to do the cost/benefit analysis and if it comes out in China's favor, we will withdraw. Thus, the conflict would be indirect, and at most, a few skirmishes between Chinese and American forces. The "few skirmishes" would definitely be huge news and rock the world if it ever comes to that, but the outcome of those skirmishes will be a defining moment for the power balance in Asia.

    The fact is, there are inherent differences in how important Asia is to each respective country. For America, for us, it's simply an extension of our, already extensive, back yard. For China, control of Asia and the Pacific is an existential question. It cannot guarantee its safety without guaranteeing dominance in Asia and the Pacific. Thus, if both sides escalate, it will be China who is willing to invest more treasure and suffer attrition to secure a political victory. On the other hand, the American establishment is unlikely to test the limits of war. Once Americans start coming home in bodybags because of perceived "neoliberal imprealism", public opinion will quickly turn against the politicians in favor of war.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    The past ten years we've had mainly american twc posters rambling on and on about the supposed superiority of their military, weapons systems etc; you couldn't go a few weeks without threads about how bored people were with the arab spring/ukraine revolution and how they wanted to see what military industrial goodies they had in store.
    You know Exach in a different board I might assume that was a slight directed at me...

    These guys would be drooling over the newest american tech and imagining how it would go about destroying Chinese or Russian cities and how they would go all Tom Clancy over one another.
    I am pretty sure the only way I have raised that prospect (peer war) is how long until we are all dead. 24 hours to maybe 3 weeks on the outside. Look bully for China on the ICBM. I mean if you want to be in the crowd that can obliterate world, they have all the tools now. That's good I suppose it means nobody in Russia or the US is likely to think they can win a preemptive war now. However of course it adds another player to the game of what happens when somebody makes a mistake and the option is only global thermonuclear war.

    I think China's desire to use ballistic missiles as the basis for other weapons is reckless because of the chance of either the US or Russia mis understanding their use. The very reason in fact the US tabled its Trident based hyper sonic techno gizmo. Because the flight path to a swift prompt conventional ballistic attack on say an AQ base in A-stan looks a lot a like a preemptive strike on China.


    -------

    Once Americans start coming home in bodybags because of perceived "neoliberal imprealism", public opinion will quickly turn against the politicians in favor of war.
    Because the US turned again the war on terror in a second. The Chinese care not about body bags. What exactly does the oligarchy have to offer after a blue water naval exclusion zone craters the the Chinese economy.
    Last edited by conon394; October 04, 2019 at 02:02 PM.
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  5. #45
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    The fact is, there are inherent differences in how important Asia is to each respective country. For America, for us, it's simply an extension of our, already extensive, back yard. For China, control of Asia and the Pacific is an existential question. It cannot guarantee its safety without guaranteeing dominance in Asia and the Pacific. Thus, if both sides escalate, it will be China who is willing to invest more treasure and suffer attrition to secure a political victory. On the other hand, the American establishment is unlikely to test the limits of war. Once Americans start coming home in bodybags because of perceived "neoliberal imprealism", public opinion will quickly turn against the politicians in favor of war.
    That is, until China attack American soil.

    It is just like second Peloponnesian War; Sparta did not go all-out on Athens until Athens attacked Sparta territory directly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  6. #46

    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    That is, until China attack American soil.

    It is just like second Peloponnesian War; Sparta did not go all-out on Athens until Athens attacked Sparta territory directly.
    With nuclear weapons involved, I don't think either side would attack the other directly. It never happened during the more than 40 years of Cold War between the US and the Soviet Union.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    Now we have an actual competitor to the United States, on the level that the USG had to declare a race war just to compete. i'm not kidding about the last part, several US officials actually called for 'whole of society' 'clash of civilisations' responses. To quote self help gurus, 'real recognises real', and in the PLA, the US high command sees Death.

    The irony is that the Chinese leadership would prefer to live and let live in their part of the world and not interfere with US politics, they actually send their kids to study in the Ivy League ffs, but that's not the world we live in unfortunately; not when you have state sanctioned white supremacism as the order of the day in the Beltway.
    Sukiyama said it well and others too. Problem for China is even potencial withdrawal of USA. Right now Japan, South Korea are more occupied with N. Korea than China. And as China is not enforcing any naughty naval policies (too much) it is quite quiet in area. But if USA would withdraw and China expand....what do you think will do Japan, S Korea and others? Massively invest and let China compete with whole area. Becase as pointed previously, China is not creating Allies, more likely "slaves". And those will more likely try to break free and get away from any China own loans.. And that is just one front. What about India and other countries in the future? What I think China is actually doing is making space and reinforce perimeter, weak underbelly to shield in possible conflict that other "navy/oversea" powers have hard access to China in case of fighting on other front. Imagine possible China/India conflict. China would be a very weak to possible backstabbing from S Korea, Japan and USA naval. Basically those would be able to remove China dominance over South China Sea and that´s is what is long term goal of China here. Reinforce South China Sea, so in case it is protected...
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by Common Soldier View Post
    With nuclear weapons involved, I don't think either side would attack the other directly. It never happened during the more than 40 years of Cold War between the US and the Soviet Union.
    That was because neither side was in hot war nor their chief interest got violated. Now if West actually sent military into Czechoslovakia during Prague Spring or Soviet actually installed nuke on Cuba...
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  9. #49

    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    That was because neither side was in hot war nor their chief interest got violated. Now if West actually sent military into Czechoslovakia during Prague Spring or Soviet actually installed nuke on Cuba...
    The Cuban Missile Crisis was about as close to nuclear war we got, where there was a very real potential of direct conflict between US and Soviet forces. But still, ultimately nothing happened. Nothing in the current situation comes even close to the Cuban Missile Crisis.

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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Sputtering and rambling
    Look i know it's hard for some white americans to cope with the fact that they no longer have the world's biggest economy (on PPP, and in the 2020s in nominal), they won't have the world's most powerful rockets or weapons, nor the world's most cutting edge science, but look it's ok. Even Iran is still a middling superpower in its own neighbourhood.

    And whilst we're on the subject of nukes, my boy Putin has been assisting the Chinese in missile defence; goddamn, the Pentagon should just pack it up and go home:
    Russia is helping China build a missile defence system, Putin says


    Days after Beijing unveils state-of-the-art missiles, Moscow reveals plan that would ‘radically enhance China’s defence capability’
    Source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...tem-putin-says

    Do you want to send the memo to Putin that he's being a race traitor?


    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    You know Exach in a different board I might assume that was a slight directed at me...
    You? No, you're one of the more sensible ones.


    I am pretty sure the only way I have raised that prospect (peer war) is how long until we are all dead. 24 hours to maybe 3 weeks on the outside. Look bully for China on the ICBM. I mean if you want to be in the crowd that can obliterate world, they have all the tools now. That's good I suppose it means nobody in Russia or the US is likely to think they can win a preemptive war now. However of course it adds another player to the game of what happens when somebody makes a mistake and the option is only global thermonuclear war.

    I think China's desire to use ballistic missiles as the basis for other weapons is reckless because of the chance of either the US or Russia mis understanding their use. The very reason in fact the US tabled its Trident based hyper sonic techno gizmo. Because the flight path to a swift prompt conventional ballistic attack on say an AQ base in A-stan looks a lot a like a preemptive strike on China.
    Thankfully, Chinese satellites and detection units will be able to determine the trajectory and type of ordinance fired in such a scenario. DF-41s are weapons of last resort, extremely necessary with a minimal nuclear deterrance policy which China has, as well as No First Strike Policy.

    In fact, going by the new Chinese tech on display, the WZ-8, this baby right here:


    for recon, they'll also be able to find out in real time whether or not any ordinance fired from US bases are ICBMs or otherwise, even if the Pentagon tries to blind PLA forces:
    ...The WZ-8....It also gives the PLA the ability to gather intelligence in a survivable and rapid manner without the enemy knowing eyes are going to be overhead—a major limitation of traditional spy satellites. Such an intelligence-gathering capability has many applications, not just locating carrier strike groups. Just the function of providing damage assessments after ballistic and cruise missile strikes on strategic locations throughout the region would be incredibly important as the information it collects could save valuable missiles for other targets and allow PLA commanders to execute an accelerated anti-access campaign during a time of war.
    Source: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...atellites-cant


    These weapons and the parade are necessary because current American leaders are advocating war, Cold or Hot, with China; it's like every Tom Clancy wannabe were gifted the reins of power once Trump became President and Steve Bannon decided he'd fight the Last Great Racial Holy War To Ensure A World Safe For White Women And White Children.

    Because the US turned again the war on terror in a second. The Chinese care not about body bags. What exactly does the oligarchy have to offer after a blue water naval exclusion zone craters the the Chinese economy.
    Which oligarchy? The US oligarchy? Or the technocrats in Beijing?

    The CCP offers and has provided with concrete results, a better standard of living and "the rejuvenation of the Chinese nation", and you ask the Chinese people and they'll respond affirmatively, that the CCP has performed well and will continue to perform well, look at the latest Pew data. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for Weimerica, with the cold civil war between factions in the American elite.

    In any case, the Bannon/Navarro/Lighthizer/Pompeo crowd have been trying to crater the Chinese economy this past year to minimal effect; the Europeans and Japanese simply ate America's lunch in the Chinese market and the trade wars have resulted in closer Chinese-european co-ordination. For all his rhetoric for a great white supremacist alliance, the granny fetishit Macron still does business with China and is due to meet with the Chinese leadership next month.



    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    Sukiyama said it well and others too. Problem for China is even potencial withdrawal of USA. Right now Japan, South Korea are more occupied with N. Korea than China. And as China is not enforcing any naughty naval policies (too much) it is quite quiet in area. But if USA would withdraw and China expand....what do you think will do Japan, S Korea and others? Massively invest and let China compete with whole area. Becase as pointed previously, China is not creating Allies, more likely "slaves".
    citation needed; why would the CCP whose founding legend is anti-colonialism and anti slavery be after "slaves".

    It's the wrong question to ask; evidence shows that China doesn't care who or what you are, so long as you're serious about doing business; the Japanese, Koreans, etc are serious about doing business with China hence why they're not on Trump's side in the trade war.


    And those will more likely try to break free and get away from any China own loans.. And that is just one front. What about India and other countries in the future? What I think China is actually doing is making space and reinforce perimeter, weak underbelly to shield in possible conflict that other "navy/oversea" powers have hard access to China in case of fighting on other front. Imagine possible China/India conflict. China would be a very weak to possible backstabbing from S Korea, Japan and USA naval. Basically those would be able to remove China dominance over South China Sea and that´s is what is long term goal of China here. Reinforce South China Sea, so in case it is protected...
    You're assuming that China is an expansionist power like Imperial Japan. It's a common mistake amongst people who think all Asians are alike.

  11. #51

    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Exarch, have you ever considered that maybe if you didn't snarl at everyone and start from the assumption anyone who does anything but agree with you at all times on all things must be a white supremacist, people might not write off everything you say out of hand? Just a thought.

    China has severe problems, many of them common to authoritarian regimes.

    -Unlike a democracy China has no mechanism for forcing the government to consider the people's input when designing law and policy. Xi and the party are in command and don't appreciate backtalk from the common people. As such if the Chinese people want to influence their government, protests and violence are the only options open to them. This guarantees that China will continue to suffer unrest like what is happening in Hong Kong, no matter how hard the party comes down on dissenters.

    -Thanks to it's long history of using force to solve any domestic problem, whether minorities desiring to practice their religion or the Chinese people clamoring for civil rights, any attempts at peaceful negotiation by the government are interpreted as insincere, forcing the government to continue to rely on force to deal with these domestic issues and perpetuating a cycle of violence and retaliation that drains money and lives and erodes moral, with no end in sight.

    -Authoritarian regimes are politically very unstable, and China has little history of peaceful transfer of power. Since Xi is now essentially ruler for life with no plans to ever step down his government is likely going to be a breeding ground for intrigue. His eventual death will trigger a scramble as every high ranking party official makes a grab for the reins of power. This could quickly spiral into coups and counter-coups, and even civil war if the military is divided in it's support. And there is the possibility the military decides to take power for itself.

  12. #52
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...tem-putin-says

    Do you want to send the memo to Putin that he's being a race traitor?
    You do seem to have a problem with race. I find it odd.

    Putin is I think blundering. His own economy cannot sustain the scale of military he wants but his military exports are a rare source of high vale (aside from raw materials). Overall he is selling a lot jewels to China with out I think an expectation of long term gain.

    In any case better early warning is probably a good thing as I said, minimizes the risk of mistakes.

    Thankfully, Chinese satellites and detection units will be able to determine the trajectory and type of ordinance fired in such a scenario. DF-41s are weapons of last resort, extremely necessary with a minimal nuclear deterrance policy which China has, as well as No First Strike Policy.
    Policy is talk. Mistakes have been made and there were several close calls during the cold war. Tensions are tensions. Its so much what anyone's system can do by design or even as implemented. What will they when hacked, degraded, attacked, etc.

    for recon, they'll also be able to find out in real time whether or not any ordinance fired from US bases are ICBMs or otherwise, even if the Pentagon tries to blind PLA forces:
    Maybe there is a lot guess work in the quote. But than again there is a ton guess work in every major military China, USA Russia etc in fighting a Peer War. If it happens I am betting most sides boasts will not be all that solid.
    The Drive article is good on the WZ-8, but like so much hardware Russian, US or China I see a lot talk about what is supposedly could do. Nobody seems all that eager to really test their kit. A public failure is bad and the perception of success based on a handful of scripted tests is always better.

    the Europeans and Japanese simply ate America's lunch in the Chinese market and the trade wars have resulted in closer Chinese-european co-ordination.
    Got nothing on the first a source for assertion, on the second OK I suppose whatever.

    For all his rhetoric for a great white supremacist alliance, the granny fetishit Macron still does business with China and is due to meet with the Chinese leadership next month.[/QUOTE]

    ?

    Which great white alliance are you dreaming about here.

    You're assuming that China is an expansionist power like Imperial Japan. It's a common mistake amongst people who think all Asians are alike.
    Or you might assume China is expansionist power because it acts like one - I could really care less about race.

    Look i know it's hard for some white americans to cope with the fact that they no longer have the world's biggest economy (on PPP, and in the 2020s in nominal), they won't have the world's most powerful rockets or weapons, nor the world's most cutting edge science, but look it's ok. Even Iran is still a middling superpower in its own neighbourhood.
    On economy size meh. I rather more concerned in how its distributed, I like the trajectory in China nor the US. Most powerful rockets seems an odd statement. If you mean ICBMS we the US has pretty much all it needs for deterrence and if the day walk down to nuclear oblivion. A few miles one way or the other matter not. Specifically can the the two missile portions of the US triad reach all of China - yes so job done. I really don't need to see them paraded around DC - I would prefer them well maintained in their cozy silos or subs. Did the US ever all the cutting edge science, or the most? I'm not noticing it slipping away like water from a bucket. I not sure what you metric is anyway.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

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    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  13. #53

    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    Close air scouting? Drones are smaller, harder to spot/damage but they still have limited sensors options..especially those smaller for front line units in terrain, for those human eyes on high ground are usually sufficient in daylight. And waiting for getting bigger bird over you...Well war is after all trying to organize chaos.

    Of course this ultra light has disadvantage being easily hit but probably has good manouvering for hill/forest terrian. This ultralight probably has no complex electronics, can operate from roads not proper airfields..so why not.
    If you look at the terrain the Chinese have to patrol and defend, places like Tibet, and these things make sense.

    One of the problems with the West is the obsession with high tech

  14. #54
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    One of the problems with the West is the obsession with high tech
    Another problem is the overestimation of the own technical skills and the underestimation of asiatic skills.
    Cause tomorrow is a brand-new day
    And tomorrow you'll be on your way
    Don't give a damn about what other people say
    Because tomorrow is a brand-new day


  15. #55
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    One of the problems with the West is the obsession with high tech
    Is China part of the west or not. They copied the silly XM-29. Being both overly heavy and tactically unclear as to what the guy holding it is supposed to be. A grenadier or a rifleman? (*) it seems the kind of thing people who watched Aliens too much think is cewl. Also the small grenade with all the high tech gizmo stuff really lowers effective payload.

    * Thankfully if A-stan taught the USMC anything its they prefer Grenadiers with a 40mm grenade to shoot. Note the loading mechanism on the M320 allows longer than NATO standard rounds - Room for smart stuff and boom.

    https://www.overtdefense.com/2018/05...re-team-level/
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  16. #56
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    Look i know it's hard for some white americans to cope with the fact that they no longer have the world's biggest economy (on PPP, and in the 2020s in nominal), they won't have the world's most powerful rockets or weapons, nor the world's most cutting edge science, but look it's ok. Even Iran is still a middling superpower in its own neighbourhood.
    PPP is a horrible way to determine a country's economy size. You would need to make more comparisons and adjustments for each goods and country to make up for the vast differences in general costs of goods and living in each country. Like gas prices in Saudi Arabia compared to somewhere like Norway.

    But go ahead and brag. We both know China's military spending isn't close to that of the US and i just proved and you have now proven further below just how China still requires foreign help to develop its own weapons and technology that others like the US and Russia have had for decades. Thats pathetic and definitely not the trait of a superpower.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    And whilst we're on the subject of nukes, my boy Putin has been assisting the Chinese in missile defence; goddamn, the Pentagon should just pack it up and go home:

    Source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...tem-putin-says

    Do you want to send the memo to Putin that he's being a race traitor?
    China in 2019 still doesn't have early warning capability for nuclear missiles? And China is supposed to be a superpower? And not only that the Chinese lacking really any innovation of their own have to have the Russians help build it? Geez. Are they capable of designing anything they own?

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    Thankfully, Chinese satellites and detection units will be able to determine the trajectory and type of ordinance fired in such a scenario. DF-41s are weapons of last resort, extremely necessary with a minimal nuclear deterrance policy which China has, as well as No First Strike Policy.

    In fact, going by the new Chinese tech on display, the WZ-8, this baby right here:


    for recon, they'll also be able to find out in real time whether or not any ordinance fired from US bases are ICBMs or otherwise, even if the Pentagon tries to blind PLA forces:

    Source: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...atellites-cant
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_D-21

    US built something like this decades ago. And now the US has the X-47 that does the same thing. Not supersonic though.


    China can keep on trying but it still just playing catch up with other people's tech.
    Last edited by Vanoi; October 05, 2019 at 11:13 AM.

  17. #57

    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Bottom line is, the era of "World Wars" is over.... not one of these large superpowers is crazy enough to risk direct conflict simply because everyone has nukes.
    Proxy wars as well as Economic (sanctions, currency manipulation, investment etc...) that's where we can see superpowers battling one another.


    For there to be another World War 3, something crazy would have to take place, I'm talking like Unprecedented in history....

  18. #58
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by Sagat View Post
    Bottom line is, the era of "World Wars" is over.... not one of these large superpowers is crazy enough to risk direct conflict simply because everyone has nukes.
    Proxy wars as well as Economic (sanctions, currency manipulation, investment etc...) that's where we can see superpowers battling one another.


    For there to be another World War 3, something crazy would have to take place, I'm talking like Unprecedented in history....
    In general yes. But I can think of a couple things that can go south fast. India and Pakistan. Taiwan deciding it really does not want to be part of China no matter how many systems it has. I am pretty sure nobody wants a North Korea situation and even China probably wanted a pawn that did not have effective nukes - but you never know say economic collapse there will play out. Same really goes for Putin he has got what he wanted in Ukraine. But in a year or two or more? A dem president might mean no more Iran issues - cheap oil - tough budget for the Czar. What if he pushes a bit too much?
    Last edited by conon394; October 05, 2019 at 02:56 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  19. #59
    Tiro
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    You're assuming that China is an expansionist power like Imperial Japan. It's a common mistake amongst people who think all Asians are alike
    Why the baiting?

    On the point, Russia has chosen to ally with commie China, the China that America fought in proxy in Korea and Vietnam, and the one sharing recent ideological trends. Supposedly, Russia still has communist ideological power-players and/or it's the trend with egalitarian Asiatics to be absolutely paranoid about the West coming to conquer them.

    China has been consistently showing a lot of force since Trump entered office which most likely means that their economy really is pathetic and Democrats since at least Clinton have been receiving favors from China in order to offshore industry to them, so their only option is expansion which will patch up their economy in the short run but still produce instability later on.

    I'm more curious why you are baiting so hard. Are you Russian or Chinese? Fair play, I'm just asking why.
    Gornahoor|Liber esse, scientiam acquirere, veritatum loqui
    Crow states: "If you would be a great leader, then learn the way of the Tao. Relinquish the need to control. Let go of plans and of concepts. The world will govern itself. The more restrictive you are, the less virtuous people will be. The more force you display, the less secure they will feel. The more subsidies you provide, the less self-reliant they become. Therefore the master says: Un-write the law, thus the people become honest. Dispense with economics, thus the people become prosperous. Do without religion, thus the people become serene. Let go all desire for the common good, and the good becomes as common as the grass." ~ Lao Tzu - Tao te tching
    MONARCHY NATION TRANSCENDENCE

  20. #60

    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Below is a link to a CRS report on Hypersonic Weapons (2019). Also highlighted are a few passages for Exarch.

    Hypersonic Weapons: Background and Issues for Congress (Sept 2019)
    https://fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/R45811.pdf

    Highlights:


    “The United States has actively pursued the development of hypersonic weapons—maneuvering weapons that fly at speeds of at least Mach 5—as a part of its conventional prompt global strike program since the early 2000s.”


    As physicist and nuclear expert James Acton explains, “point-defense systems, and particularly [Terminal High-Altitude Area Defense(THAAD)], could very plausibly be adapted to deal with hypersonic missiles. The disadvantage of those systems is that they can only defend small areas.”



    “According to Tong Zhao, a fellow at the Carnegie-Tsinghua Center for Global Policy, ‘most experts argue that the most important reason to prioritize hypersonic technology development [in China] is the necessity to counter specific security threats from increasingly sophisticated U.S. military technology, including [hypersonic weapons].’”



    “Some analysts argue that unintended escalation could occur as a result of warhead ambiguity, or from the inability to distinguish between a conventionally armed hypersonic weapon and a nuclear-armed one.”



    “Furthermore, these analysts note that in the case of hypersonic weapons, traditional principles of deterrence hold: “it is really a stretch to try to imagine any regime in the world that would be so suicidal that it would even think threating to use—not to mention to actually use—hypersonic weapons against the United States... would end well.”
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