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Thread: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

  1. #201
    Squiggle's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by Sar1n View Post
    Unfortunately the pollution is one reason why China is dangerous to whole world in the long run.

    As for the coming consequences of one child policy, China is trying to counteract that by establishing literal enslavement and exploitation of central African countries that's even worse than what Europeans did there over century ago. Just google it.
    I'm well aware---lets be rational for a moment. Rare on this site, reading all the posts above make that abundantly clear lol. How can China sustain its own global system of exploitation if its severe and punitive? How can it sustain its own domestic system if they cant respect their own citizens, either? Consider everytime China produces a middle class or upper middle class person, that person will want respect, and China-- because of its authoritarianism and historical hubris-- will not give them it. So the citizen will simply leave the country, or get his face stomped in. Either way China is too brittle and authoritarian to build long term relationships between itself and other states or between the state and its citizenry. Chinese culture and society have been in a state of extended crisis for at least the last six hundred years, and I see nothing in recent times to suggest that crisis has abated whatsoever.

    Totally right about pollution though.
    Man will never be free until the last King is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
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    As for politics, I'm an Anarchist. I hate governments and rules and fetters. Can't stand caged animals. People must be free.
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  2. #202

    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by Squiggle View Post
    I'm well aware---lets be rational for a moment. Rare on this site, reading all the posts above make that abundantly clear lol. How can China sustain its own global system of exploitation if its severe and punitive? How can it sustain its own domestic system if they cant respect their own citizens, either? Consider everytime China produces a middle class or upper middle class person, that person will want respect, and China-- because of its authoritarianism and historical hubris-- will not give them it. So the citizen will simply leave the country, or get his face stomped in. Either way China is too brittle and authoritarian to build long term relationships between itself and other states or between the state and its citizenry. Chinese culture and society have been in a state of extended crisis for at least the last six hundred years, and I see nothing in recent times to suggest that crisis has abated whatsoever.

    Totally right about pollution though.
    One of main tactics of Chinese propaganda to control people is to tell them they're under attack, while dehumanizing foreigners and perpetuating myths of Chinese superiority. The results can be easily seen in this thread, with Exarch endlessly ranting about "race war" and spouting aggressive rhetoric while claiming that Chine is only "defending itself", and turning blind eye on the atrocities committed by the regime and its puppets. This holds lower class in check.

    And China is aggressively working on replacing the real value of middle class-the innovative drive and desire for success-by mass industrial espionage, exploitation and planned economy. But the middle class itself is, for them ideologically undesirable.

    The really bad thing is...such regime produces fanatics and is propped by them. Thus it cannot prevent their eventual rise. And when the fanatics get too high in nation commanding WMDs, as will inevitably happen in China, the entire world is in danger. This is why nobody really pokes into North Korea situation too hard. Kim Jong Un is essentially a safety. If anything happened to him, the next guy would be one of his fanatic generals, who wouldn't mind giving order to bombard Seoul and anything else in range of his artillery along DMZ, even though it would mean his death. Those NK nukes are largely inconsequential as of yet, just a scarecrow. Their real capability to hit anything past NK itself is shoddy. It's the mass of artillery pointed at Seoul and other South Korean cities in range that's real deterrent.
    Last edited by Sar1n; November 26, 2019 at 04:00 PM.

  3. #203
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    "Chinese 5.8-millimeter round, touted as having greater energy than U.S. 5.56-millimeter rounds"

    But seeing as the US army is going to 6.8mm I'm not sure that is a good argument. I suppose there is one with the Marines new M27/M38. But that move seems to be 1 standard gun that can do sharpshoot and distribute the M249s job about more.

    Interestingly just as the bullpup seems to be dying there is one candidate (of three) in the army 6.8mm finalists that looks to maybe bring it back.
    Last edited by conon394; January 28, 2020 at 09:11 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

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  4. #204
    JP226's Avatar Suspended
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    We should just take a play out of the old 19th Century Trade War manual. We could sink the Chinese fleet, or at a minimum hole them up within a month. Blow up a few of those sea islands they built, give whatever is left to Japan. Sink a few cargo ships the Chinese have, take their African and Caribbean possessions, and blockade their coasts. Country would starve to death if they didn't submit. That or they'd risk a Nuclear war, which would end horribly for them.

    Maybe even go ahead and take Hong Kong. Local population would support us and it's a very good defensible position that the ChiComs could never take back.
    Last edited by JP226; December 03, 2019 at 10:28 AM.

  5. #205
    Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Long-term forecast by @CapEconomics: China will fail to overtake US by 2050.

    It sees China held back by misallocated resources and bad demographics. Many would agree those are big headwinds. But its conclusion is far outside mainstream consensus, and definitely worth marking.

    Thanks, immigrants. Into the crucible with you all

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  6. #206
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by JP226 View Post
    We should just take a play out of the old 19th Century Trade War manual. We could sink the Chinese fleet, or at a minimum hole them up within a month. Blow up a few of those sea islands they built, give whatever is left to Japan. Sink a few cargo ships the Chinese have, take their African and Caribbean possessions, and blockade their coasts. Country would starve to death if they didn't submit. That or they'd risk a Nuclear war, which would end horribly for them.

    Maybe even go ahead and take Hong Kong. Local population would support us and it's a very good defensible position that the ChiComs could never take back.
    Political and economic cost would be high. Outside of a massive immediate military reaction to declaration of independence by Taiwan, I am not sure I could see the US sustaining such a venture with credibility with our allies.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  7. #207

    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Political and economic cost would be high. Outside of a massive immediate military reaction to declaration of independence by Taiwan, I am not sure I could see the US sustaining such a venture with credibility with our allies.
    Taiwan declaring independence would lead to unnecessary provocation with China, and would not gain Taiwan much in real terms. The US could block a Chinese invasion of Taiwan, it would only require actions of submarines and mines to make it very costly for China to to sustain an invasion, unless large portions of the Taiwanese population supported such a move. Taiwan is de facto independent, and while it really isn't formerly recognized as a separate independent country by anyone, it is treated as such by most nations. While China might growl and complain of US providing weapons to Taiwan for its defense, China isn't unlikely to do much about it.

    I think that the US could sustain a WW2 like blockade against China, while China would have a much tougher time doing the reverse. However, China has been expanding its land connections of Silk Road, so even an effective naval blockade might not be as crippling as some would imagine.

    Biggest problem, is the US is so heavily dependent on Chinese manufactured goods, it would be very hard for the US to find alternate sources, at least in the short run. And it is questionable whether such a direct confrontation could be kept strictly conventional with China, and not eventually lead to a nuclear exchange. Truth is, China can get along far better without the US than the US can without China. Pretty much anything the US supplies to China China can get elsewhere, but the reverse is not true. China is the main supplier for many of the rare earth minerals modern technology depends upon, and is the main supplier of things like lithium, as well as most of the manufactured goods the US uses.

    Still, even if China wouldn't lose, a conflict with the US would be very inconvenient. China shouldn't be any rush to take back Taiwan, and China might be able to persuade Taiwanese to voluntarily join China as being in their own economic self interest to join with the world's largest economy. Perhaps a deal granting a great deal of local control similar to Hong Kong could be struck. Even if Taiwan were to declare independence, I am not sure that China would do something as rash as a military solution. It could use its considerable economic influence to make Taiwan reconsider, even going as drastic as making trading partners chose between doing business with China or Taiwan, and I think we know which most countries would chose.

  8. #208
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    @Common Soldier

    Not necessarily going to disagree. But a few thoughts...

    There are hints that there is a bit of disconnect between the party (the oligarchy) and the PLA about Taiwan. Namely that the former thinks an invasion would be easier that the latter. That could mean miscalculation is more likely on China's part.

    For now I am pretty sure the event's in Hong Kong have killed much trust in the two systems BS. Also people I've met from Taiwan are aware in a most people are not of the mainland resettlement the government did in Macao and is doing in Hong Kong creating a larger loyal population.

    Pretty much anything the US supplies to China China can get elsewhere, but the reverse is not true. China is the main supplier for many of the rare earth minerals modern technology depends upon, and is the main supplier of things like lithium, as well as most of the manufactured goods the US uses.
    If the US accepted the cost it could return to be a leading supplier of both. Cost in this case being Hanford quality "it just has to be done" or subsidizing production that is not an environmental disaster.

    and mines
    Problem for the US is the pentagon is rather intoxicated with techno wonders (Ford, Zumwalt, F-35, Lasers, and rail guns, etc) and has not done much spending on mines or sub deployed mines since the 70s. And the early 80s are the last time it bothered to build any.
    Last edited by conon394; January 29, 2020 at 06:42 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  9. #209

    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Worth noting, a Harvard chemistry chairman is charged with misleading the DoD regarding China and the work he’s done.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  10. #210
    Legio_Italica's Avatar Lost in Limbo
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    The unfortunate part about the USG finally starting to do something about China is it’s too little, too late. The monied interests in the West will only tolerate so much “antagonism” toward the Politburo, whom they seem to believe holds the keys to a modern day El Dorado. What happens from here on out will more or less come down to dumb luck and the willingness of US leadership to continue kicking the can to the end of the road.

  11. #211

    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    The unfortunate part about the USG finally starting to do something about China is it’s too little, too late. The monied interests in the West will only tolerate so much “antagonism” toward the Politburo, whom they seem to believe holds the keys to a modern day El Dorado. What happens from here on out will more or less come down to dumb luck and the willingness of US leadership to continue kicking the can to the end of the road.
    Well, not like they've never been able to. They've just never had a focus on China. You can be charged with export control compliance for something as simple as scuba diving tanks. Why? Military use. But for 20 years our focus has been shockingly focused on the Middle East and not the R&D that China has paid a Harvard Professor to do. And when a Harvard Professor misleads a government official about his work.... well...apparently it's ok to charge him with lying to a government official as long as that official is DoD and not FBI.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

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