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Thread: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

  1. #81

    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    OK Exach lets stop the video and a fair approximation of reality 2020.

    ~3:03

    Fist thing let me preface by pointing out I could care less if China's nominal GDP passes the US. Am I any richer or poorer on that day or the next. Nope. Second given the size of China population 4-5 times that of the US.its mainly the Chinese who should be asking why they are still waiting. The long term forecast for China is not that rosy.

    https://knoema.com/loqqwx/china-gdp-...ata-and-charts

    In any case back to the not caring part. The only bar that matters is the Per Capita one. Critically I most interested in US policy that makes sure Americans can share equitably in the enormous pie they sit on. I don't really like the trend in wealth and income inequality, in fact I find it ominously bad. I alarms me far more that new Chinese missiles or how fast their pie is growing.
    Ironically, the Chinese were more than happy to Make America Great Again, right up until the USG decided to go white nationalist, steve bannon, kaiser wilhelm "kill the yellow man before he overtakes us".

    Jack Ma of AliBaba touted giving small american businesses a leg up into the Chinese market with his internet platform; you know who ed that up? This administration, specifically the white supremacist bannon/Navarro types who are uncomfortable seeing Asians in positions other than serving them dim sum.

    The actual result?




    Rose colored glasses much?

    "In addition, as I write this piece, millions of people in the Bay are experiencing a multi-day planned blackout."

    Because China never has those right, err nope...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rgy-efficiency

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/william.../#58e0c0ae7900
    2010 and 2011 may as well be 1999 when compared to current China; that's the scale that China has grown since then.

    Again, it's still hard for some Americans to comprehend the speed and size that China has grown; up to the point where your favourite basketball celebrities and film stars are going to have to toe the line on Chinese sensibilities or else face career suicide like richard gere (who?).

    And on the topic of US infrastructure being forced to shut down and needing a revamp, that was part of the whole idea of "Chimeria", that Chinese companies would invest back into US companies, tech companies etc....something which the USG under the Bannon/Navarro/Kiron Skinner/Pompeo types have resolutely forbade simply because China's not white.

  2. #82
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Again, it's still hard for some Americans to comprehend the speed and size that China has grown; up to the point where your favourite basketball celebrities and film stars are going to have to toe the line on Chinese sensibilities or else face career suicide like richard gere (who?).
    On the last, looks like he works as often as he wants. the Man is 70 its not like he going to be cast as the lead in a rom com (Hollywood has to many cringe worthy old guys still playing romantic lead or action hero). But in general I am not sure I am supposed to care - Sports and Hollywood have always towed the line of the sensibilities of whatever the markets they are in or might offend. I though I pointed out (maybe I dropped the edit) there is reason Colin Kaepernick is not playing in the NFL now but less able QBs are and it ain't Chinese sensibilities.

    But anyway great maybe the NBA can move to China entirely and leaves more air time for Hockey, I could care less about what the NBA does or does not do I don't have any favorite basketball celebrates.

    And on the topic of US infrastructure being forced to shut down and needing a revamp, that was part of the whole idea of "Chimeria", that Chinese companies would invest back into US companies, tech companies etc....something which the USG under the Bannon/Navarro/Kiron Skinner/Pompeo types have resolutely forbade simply because China's not white.
    The US market is rather open to Chinese investment. Its not like Trump has issued capital controls. On Utilities I suspect they for decent reasons that they are only allowed so much foreign investment but I suspect that holds true for similar industries in most nations with any geopolitical rivals. But California is not really a classic infrastructure problem that needed outside investment or suffers from lack of money. Rather its a tale poor regulation of a for profit utility and well climate change and a place that should never have become the largest US state anyway. First off utilities love to skimp on maintenance [not so much the age or type of equipment but checking on poles, and wires, cutting back trees, etc], and the simple fact that regulators either willingly (via capture) or just for lack of tools and fines don't do the enforcement they should. Add in strong property rights and do you really want to argue with some land owner about his tree limbs. Finally add a profit motive and you get short term thinking long term every time.
    Last edited by conon394; October 15, 2019 at 10:38 AM.
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    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

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  3. #83
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    China has its own share of problems moving forward and no amount of weapons can fix that.

    1) Population. Because China is not yet rich country, this will be massive problem once current working population enters retirement. And it will happen way faster than in west. China will double elder people in like 20-30 years and all steps like allowing second child have no longer effect. China is running out of people.

    2) Economy. You cannot transform such big economy from low cost production into high one in decade. Prize of work is skyrocketing, companies are starting to move abroad from China. Plus China boosted economy data for long time by cheap public debt money and contruction work. True question is, how money skeletons are in the closet buried by artificial growth of for long long time.

    3) Let´s face it. What is united must divide, what is divided must unite. China is heading into first option and goverment is fearing it. They fear own citizens, common people, army to have to much power. Money for police, state size spionage on its onw citizens, concentration camps for Uygurs and later for any other minorities (Christians and basically anybody different)..China is heading into Orwellian state with credit system. It is just another way to limit "bad" persons but will end up like any other caste system. Privilaged elite and common people and outlaws. China is fearing to lose its face in any way because that is sign of weakness. You cannot lose to Taiwan, Trump, to nobody.even to its own citizens.

    4) What we see as arming is just try to make defense before any future conflict appears. India is going to surpass China soon. There is possibility of conflict between two, between Pakistan and India...plus china muse secure coastal. Arming all those islands is good way to capture resources as well as making forward weapon systems. It is not just to keep USA out, it is to create dominance ..vs South Indonesia, Japan, South Korea because once China is not powerful, what will happen? China has no friends just slaves waiting to get free and bite back and having enough defense by this time is only way to prevent another catastrophe.

    - Remember Stalin´s cleaning of Red Army prior to German WW2 invasion. Gulags, red terror and everything around. China is heading that way once more more. It is not there yet but path is clear. To put is simple. China is on best way to stop itself and crack country once more.
    Last edited by Daruwind; October 15, 2019 at 06:23 PM.

  4. #84

    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    First things first, out of the Chinese internet we've got what's rumoured to be a DF-17 test; check out the maneuverability!!

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    On the last, looks like he works as often as he wants. the Man is 70 its not like he going to be cast as the lead in a rom com (Hollywood has to many cringe worthy old guys still playing romantic lead or action hero). But in general I am not sure I am supposed to care - Sports and Hollywood have always towed the line of the sensibilities of whatever the markets they are in or might offend. I though I pointed out (maybe I dropped the edit) there is reason Colin Kaepernick is not playing in the NFL now but less able QBs are and it ain't Chinese sensibilities.

    But anyway great maybe the NBA can move to China entirely and leaves more air time for Hockey, I could care less about what the NBA does or does not do I don't have any favorite basketball celebrates.
    The reaction of the americans butthurt over NBA players refusing to tow the government line on China is a sad testament to how far the US has fallen; respect for others' political opinions or lack thereof has been trampled upon for the sake of the madness of drumming up support for a war against China. These days, no american can even express an objective opinion before being crucified for being a panda hugger or communist sympathiser. McCarthyist much?

    The US market is rather open to Chinese investment. Its not like Trump has issued capital controls. On Utilities I suspect they for decent reasons that they are only allowed so much foreign investment but I suspect that holds true for similar industries in most nations with any geopolitical rivals.
    The US under this administration crossed several lines, even going so far as to kidnap the daughter of the CEO of a rival firm, simply because he refused to allow backdoors to the FVEYEs, a racist white supremacist organisation. Happily, the response has been for China to detain several US spies; who the hell knows what sort of debriefing the Ministry of State Security is getting from those US spies once they crack from the psychological torture of the MSS.


    But California is not really a classic infrastructure problem that needed outside investment or suffers from lack of money. Rather its a tale poor regulation of a for profit utility and well climate change and a place that should never have become the largest US state anyway. First off utilities love to skimp on maintenance [not so much the age or type of equipment but checking on poles, and wires, cutting back trees, etc], and the simple fact that regulators either willingly (via capture) or just for lack of tools and fines don't do the enforcement they should. Add in strong property rights and do you really want to argue with some land owner about his tree limbs. Finally add a profit motive and you get short term thinking long term every time.
    I'm finding that California, Ferguson, the imprisonment of native activists against pipelines...all of that is a feature, rather than an exception to US corporatist capitalism which resembles feudalism or oligarchies of the post soviet era. Couple that with the extreme militarism in order to distract the working poor from revolution, and you have the nucleus of a fascistic state in the making.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    China has its own share of problems moving forward and no amount of weapons can fix that.

    1) Population. Because China is not yet rich country, this will be massive problem once current working population enters retirement. And it will happen way faster than in west. China will double elder people in like 20-30 years and all steps like allowing second child have no longer effect. China is running out of people.
    First of all, declining birth rates are a feature of developed nations, naturally the birth rate will go down as the females use their most fertile years for study and academia, rather than family. Fortunately for China, the 2 child policy has had a marked effect in the past 2-3 years it was enacted: https://twitter.com/PDChina/status/1164854802079244288

    Secondly, the problem as you're inferring, isn't so much population growth leading to economic growth, but rather, quality of growth.

    Importing the 3rd world and their values into your society for instance, might increase economic growth for a while, driving up demand but does all for societal cohesion and plants the seeds of civil unrest, eg Sweden, UK, the US compared to the ethnic and cultural cohesion of China which itself has over 56 different ethnicities and yet remains united and cohesive for China.
    Can the same be said for the rise of the alt-right in the West?

    2) Economy. You cannot transform such big economy from low cost production into high one in decade.
    China's the exception, didn't you know that? It's like God gave up on the Israelites being his chosen people and went all in on the Chinese. Where was China back in 2009? Where is China today? The change is incredible and testament more to what the human spirit is capable. Anyone can do it, even lazy, chronic masturbators in the western world could do it if they stopped posting on r/thedonald or 8chan for once and picked up a shovel.

    Prize of work is skyrocketing, companies are starting to move abroad from China.
    Not the companies that matter: Tesla, Microsoft, Apple....

    Who are the big hitters who've moved out of China?

    More to the point, US business are refusing to do their bit in the race war that the White House has instigated:
    US companies unlikely to heed Trump’s call to leave China Leader of US-China Business Council says ‘our members are in China for the long term’James Politi in Washington AUGUST 30, 2019 Print this page44 US companies are unlikely to heed Donald Trump’s call to ditch their investments in China despite a tougher business environment in the country and the escalating trade war between Washington and Beijing, the leader of a prominent lobby group for US multinationals said on Thursday.
    “Our members are in China for the long term. None of them are anticipating orders to leave,” Craig Allen, the head of the US-China Business Council, told reporters in Washington. “We want to make this bilateral relationship strong and healthy from a commercial sense and encourage the two sides to get back to the negotiating table.”
    Mr AllenÂ’s remarks came amid hopes that a phone call between senior US and Chinese officials on Thursday could pave the way for a resumption of face-to-face talks to ease tensions between the worldÂ’s two largest economies as early as next month.
    Most American companies that are there understand that China will remain one of the primary engines of global growth
    Craig Allen, head of the US-China Business Council Since the last round of negotiations in Shanghai floundered in late July, the US has moved to impose higher tariffs on nearly all Chinese imports over the course of the next few months, and Chinese has vowed to retaliate against some US products. The US also labelled China a “currency manipulator”, adding fuel to the economic conflict.
    Mr Allen said the US-China trade war was having a substantial impact on American companies with business in the Asian nation, mainly serving the Chinese market. In its annual survey of members, 49 per cent reported lost sales, resulting in a loss of market share to foreign competitors — with 40 per cent saying that US companies were viewed as “unreliable” — a seven fold increase compared with 2018.
    The survey also revealed widespread concerns about discrimination against US companies operating in China to the benefit of domestic competitors, through means ranging from tax policies and subsidies to regulatory approvals and restrictions on data flows. Among the more recent examples is a plan to impose a “social credit” system on companies that could serve as a tool to target US companies.
    But Mr Allen dismissed fears of a rapid decoupling of the two economies and an imminent exodus from the Chinese market, even though some supply chains were moving out of the country. Ninety-seven per cent of respondents to the survey said their operations in China were profitable.
    “We don’t see a great deal of evidence that our members are leaving China at all — rather investments in China are healthy,” he said. “Most American companies that are there understand that China will remain one of the primary engines of global growth for the foreseeable future.”
    Source: https://www.ft.com/content/d9490bae-...4-3669401ba76f

    Plus China boosted economy data for long time by cheap public debt money and contruction work. True question is, how money skeletons are in the closet buried by artificial growth of for long long time.
    Sorry, the facts on the ground don't match with that canard
    US firms that leave China on Donald Trump’s ‘order’ will only hurt themselves, experts say


    • WorldÂ’s most populous nation offers economic opportunities that cannot be matched anywhere else, analysts say
    • Missing out on future growth ‘would weaken the competitiveness of US industryÂ’ and harm its domestic interests, business leader says


    Source: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...will-only-hurt


    3) Let´s face it. What is united must divide, what is divided must unite. China is heading into first option and goverment is fearing it. They fear own citizens, common people, army to have to much power. Money for police, state size spionage on its onw citizens, concentration camps for Uygurs and later for any other minorities (Christians and basically anybody different)..China is heading into Orwellian state with credit system. It is just another way to limit "bad" persons but will end up like any other caste system. Privilaged elite and common people and outlaws. China is fearing to lose its face in any way because that is sign of weakness. You cannot lose to Taiwan, Trump, to nobody.even to its own citizens.
    That's a lot of talking points and tropes about big bad China. For such a big bad place, Chinese people sure do express a great deal of patriotism-something that scares the out of americans who have only recently discovered that China is America's America.

    4) What we see as arming is just try to make defense before any future conflict appears. India is going to surpass China soon. There is possibility of conflict between two, between Pakistan and India...plus china muse secure coastal. Arming all those islands is good way to capture resources as well as making forward weapon systems. It is not just to keep USA out, it is to create dominance ..vs South Indonesia, Japan, South Korea because once China is not powerful, what will happen? China has no friends just slaves waiting to get free and bite back and having enough defense by this time is only way to prevent another catastrophe.
    This past week, Indian President Modi feted Chinese President Xi; i'm not seeing a lot of results for indians wanting to fight and die for white anglo supremacy, much as the indian londoners are keen to do so, i have no doubt.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    - Remember Stalin´s cleaning of Red Army prior to German WW2 invasion. Gulags, red terror and everything around. China is heading that way once more more. It is not there yet but path is clear. To put is simple. China is on best way to stop itself and crack country once more.
    China isn't the Soviet Union; it's bigger, deadlier, more committed, more consistent and here to stay.

    As Apollo Creed put it, China has the Eye of the Tiger whereas the US lost it a long time ago:

  5. #85
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    The reaction of the americans butthurt over NBA players refusing to tow the government line on China is a sad testament to how far the US has fallen; respect for others' political opinions or lack thereof has been trampled upon for the sake of the madness of drumming up support for a war against China. These days, no american can even express an objective opinion before being crucified for being a panda hugger or communist sympathiser. McCarthyist much?
    Hmm I knew was only a matter of time before you would use butthurt. Sorry Exarch its not really best bit of vocab in you lexicon. The government line - we have one that American's are supposed tow? I believe you are mistaking China for the US.

    Let's see know what political opinions got trampled. All I saw was corporate turtling over a statement by one employee about China. So its legit to silence that because its anti China, but flack against Lebrone is McCarthyism. You know you can't call it McCarthyist unless the government and his potential employers act against him. And in fact it is support of protestors guy who dangling in the wind, so I guess get your imaginary pro-war with China thing clear because its not falling together over this one.

    The US under this administration crossed several lines, even going so far as to kidnap the daughter of the CEO of a rival firm
    If you (as an officer of a company) are going to violate US sanction and US laws you should not probably gad about in a close US ally like Canada with extradition treaties. Meng Wanzhou last I checked is in Canada fighting extradition and no doubt has some very well paid legal assistance. I don't think kidnap is anything more than Exarch butthurt.

    simply because he refused to allow backdoors to the FVEYEs, a racist white supremacist organisation. Happily, the response has been for China to detain several US spies; who the hell knows what sort of debriefing the Ministry of State Security is getting from those US spies once they crack from the psychological torture of the MSS.
    Of course they must be spies. And of course the US is on a racist which hunt. Whatever.

    I'm finding that California, Ferguson, the imprisonment of native activists against pipelines...all of that is a feature, rather than an exception to US corporatist capitalism which resembles feudalism or oligarchies of the post soviet era. Couple that with the extreme militarism in order to distract the working poor from revolution, and you have the nucleus of a fascistic state in the making.

    Hmm not getting it.

    On pipelines, sure in China its one big happy party everyone displaced by the 3 gorges damn voted for it 100% and happy packed up and left? No one likes it to their ox being gored.

    "I'm finding that California" Again so PGE cut corners its not that is unique - happens in china as well

    https://www.cnbc.com/id/42243164

    https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/techn...o-far-too-fast

    But its problems are bigger than China's. Eminent Domain is simply far more costly when even old crazy cat lady can fight you tooth and nail in the courts, let alone very wealth home owners or farmers.

    http://www.globalconstructionreview....socheaply7365/

    "Some of the reasons are not surprising. For instance, in a country where according to the World Bank 978 million people lived on less than $5 a day in 2008, labour has been cheap. And in an authoritarian state like China, the cost of moving people out of the way is low. The paper’s authors note that site work and right-of-way costs in litigious California are around $10m/km, or 17.6% of the total cost, while in China land acquisition and resettlement costs are below 8% of project cost."


    That litigiousness goes for everything, rail lines, or subways, or a boarder wall Trump want's (there is a reason sections of wall Bush senior wanted are still in litigation). Is that a cost. Sure Cali will now only get some high speed rail and a lot more local but not the sexy S-N line that sold the project. But at the same time it means Jerry Brown could not send the national guard in to move people with some check for the lowest possible assessment of their property. And that is really the PGE's problem. I mean my wife inherited tree property in WA state. But you see its been culled once recently for trees 15 years ago. So it has some fine old growth - but that requires access roads to get to.The younger stuff has at least 10 more years to grow. Thus the thing is I have glitzy assessment/evaluation of value on the property good enough for east coast bankers that puts the value at say X for collateral (which deftly ignores access and assumes a value really in the long term). But the minute the power company wants to appropriate it for a high voltage tower or two, their guy iis going to value at what it worth sans improvement on that day and it is not X by a long shot. So you can bet no matter the greater good I am going to fight to the last to avoid that situation. And in the US I have the tools to do that for a while longer and if I get my back up and a neighbor and know a lawyer as a friend, not so much in China.


    ------------


    edits:

    This past week, Indian President Modi feted Chinese President Xi; i'm not seeing a lot of results for indians wanting to fight and die for white anglo supremacy, much as the indian londoners are keen to do so, i have no doubt.
    Modi the butcher is on a bit PR train ride

    Howdy Modi much?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxFn7rVng0M

    But I not to happy with the man. If his brand of Hindu nationalism pushes India into another war with Pakistan... China looses badly if it goes south the worst way.

    India might be quite happy to fight and die for their own reasons...

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...re-again-ahead

    So tucked enough stuff under the rug for a meet and great. Big deal. Unless that produced say China stopping nuclear tech sharing with Pakistan I am not sweating some India/China leader meet. Leaders meet all the time.


    ----

    Importing the 3rd world and their values into your society for instance, might increase economic growth for a while, driving up demand but does all for societal cohesion and plants the seeds of civil unrest, eg Sweden, UK, the US compared to the ethnic and cultural cohesion of China which itself has over 56 different ethnicities and yet remains united and cohesive for China.
    Can the same be said for the rise of the alt-right in the West?
    I'll answer that when the Dalai Lama is allowed to hang about in Lhasa or you know when everyone in China express what the hell they want on the internet.
    Last edited by conon394; October 16, 2019 at 10:53 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  6. #86

    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    China has its own share of problems moving forward and no amount of weapons can fix that.

    1) Population. Because China is not yet rich country, this will be massive problem once current working population enters retirement. And it will happen way faster than in west. China will double elder people in like 20-30 years and all steps like allowing second child have no longer effect. China is running out of people.

    2) Economy. You cannot transform such big economy from low cost production into high one in decade. Prize of work is skyrocketing, companies are starting to move abroad from China. Plus China boosted economy data for long time by cheap public debt money and contruction work. True question is, how money skeletons are in the closet buried by artificial growth of for long long time.

    3) Let´s face it. What is united must divide, what is divided must unite. China is heading into first option and goverment is fearing it. They fear own citizens, common people, army to have to much power. Money for police, state size spionage on its onw citizens, concentration camps for Uygurs and later for any other minorities (Christians and basically anybody different)..China is heading into Orwellian state with credit system. It is just another way to limit "bad" persons but will end up like any other caste system. Privilaged elite and common people and outlaws. China is fearing to lose its face in any way because that is sign of weakness. You cannot lose to Taiwan, Trump, to nobody.even to its own citizens.

    4) What we see as arming is just try to make defense before any future conflict appears. India is going to surpass China soon. There is possibility of conflict between two, between Pakistan and India...plus china muse secure coastal. Arming all those islands is good way to capture resources as well as making forward weapon systems. It is not just to keep USA out, it is to create dominance ..vs South Indonesia, Japan, South Korea because once China is not powerful, what will happen? China has no friends just slaves waiting to get free and bite back and having enough defense by this time is only way to prevent another catastrophe.

    - Remember Stalin´s cleaning of Red Army prior to German WW2 invasion. Gulags, red terror and everything around. China is heading that way once more more. It is not there yet but path is clear. To put is simple. China is on best way to stop itself and crack country once more.
    Many of your points are true. However, India is unlikely to pass China in GDP, at least not by 2050, which is a benchmark date for many planners and economists. Also, while many countries around China aren't comfortable with it, I would not call most of them as happy US allies. These countries are allied with United States because their national interests align with our own, for now. By 2050, China may make a very good case for why a Chinese led security arrangement is favorable for the Pacific, and many countries will probably agree.

  7. #87
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Many of your points are true. However, India is unlikely to pass China in GDP, at least not by 2050, which is a benchmark date for many planners and economists. Also, while many countries around China aren't comfortable with it, I would not call most of them as happy US allies. These countries are allied with United States because their national interests align with our own, for now. By 2050, China may make a very good case for why a Chinese led security arrangement is favorable for the Pacific, and many countries will probably agree.
    The last really depends on time. How many end up like Sri Lanka with assets forfeited to what amounts to predatory lending. And I mean that in the total view in isolation the loans and infrastructure do no look so bad. But when you consider friendly China was adding easy new debt to a state that could not afford its debt load and that load came with a catch - that is predatory. Now I'll be impressed with China when also offers to restructure Sri Lanka's crushing open market debt load the one that made it have pass on paying off debt to China. But wait they might ask for reforms and anti corruption efforts and gosh sound like the world bank or the IMF. I mean Is suppose Sri Lanka got a pointless empty harbor (to anyone but China) but the fact is the market's were not wrong there were any number of things Sri Lanka could spent debt on not the least just paying off worse debt that would have been better.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  8. #88

    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    The last really depends on time. How many end up like Sri Lanka with assets forfeited to what amounts to predatory lending. And I mean that in the total view in isolation the loans and infrastructure do no look so bad. But when you consider friendly China was adding easy new debt to a state that could not afford its debt load and that load came with a catch - that is predatory. Now I'll be impressed with China when also offers to restructure Sri Lanka's crushing open market debt load the one that made it have pass on paying off debt to China. But wait they might ask for reforms and anti corruption efforts and gosh sound like the world bank or the IMF. I mean Is suppose Sri Lanka got a pointless empty harbor (to anyone but China) but the fact is the market's were not wrong there were any number of things Sri Lanka could spent debt on not the least just paying off worse debt that would have been better.
    Debt-peonage is part of the design. When China is holding meetings on a new security arrangement in the Pacific and Indian ocean, do you really think debt leverage is a weakness in these negotiations? Ukraine shows both the benefits and liabilities of such strategies. Ukraine is now extremely anti-Russian, but that was after almost two decades of debt-fuelled subservience in the Russian sphere of influence. If Euromaidan didn't spiral out of control, we'd probably be looking at Russia working on decade #3 in Ukraine.

  9. #89

    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Hmm I knew was only a matter of time before you would use butthurt. Sorry Exarch its not really best bit of vocab in you lexicon. The government line - we have one that American's are supposed tow? I believe you are mistaking China for the US. .
    Butthurt much?

    The fact that the US is conducting a McCarthyist purge against anyone not sufficiently anti China, should be cause for concern; the McCarthyist witch hunts were only 70 years ago, and it appears that american society needs remediation. The fact that racism is also being tacitly encouraged should be another cause for concern.

    If you (as an officer of a company) are going to violate US sanction and US laws you should not probably gad about in a close US ally like Canada with extradition treaties. Meng Wanzhou last I checked is in Canada fighting extradition and no doubt has some very well paid legal assistance. I don't think kidnap is anything more than Exarch butthurt.
    US laws are now world laws? Who elected America to be the king of the world? Meng is a Canadian and canadian laws were flouted to appease American geostrategy. Canadians are now scrambling to get themselves out of this hole now that they find that white supremacy is no substitute for Chinese largesse.


    Of course they must be spies. And of course the US is on a racist which hunt. Whatever.
    Do you deny the evidence?


    Hmm not getting it.

    On pipelines, sure in China its one big happy party everyone displaced by the 3 gorges damn voted for it 100% and happy packed up and left? No one likes it to their ox being gored.

    "I'm finding that California" Again so PGE cut corners its not that is unique - happens in china as well

    https://www.cnbc.com/id/42243164

    https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/techn...o-far-too-fast

    But its problems are bigger than China's. Eminent Domain is simply far more costly when even old crazy cat lady can fight you tooth and nail in the courts, let alone very wealth home owners or farmers.

    http://www.globalconstructionreview....socheaply7365/

    "Some of the reasons are not surprising. For instance, in a country where according to the World Bank 978 million people lived on less than $5 a day in 2008, labour has been cheap. And in an authoritarian state like China, the cost of moving people out of the way is low. The paperÂ’s authors note that site work and right-of-way costs in litigious California are around $10m/km, or 17.6% of the total cost, while in China land acquisition and resettlement costs are below 8% of project cost."


    That litigiousness goes for everything, rail lines, or subways, or a boarder wall Trump want's (there is a reason sections of wall Bush senior wanted are still in litigation). Is that a cost. Sure Cali will now only get some high speed rail and a lot more local but not the sexy S-N line that sold the project. But at the same time it means Jerry Brown could not send the national guard in to move people with some check for the lowest possible assessment of their property. And that is really the PGE's problem. I mean my wife inherited tree property in WA state. But you see its been culled once recently for trees 15 years ago. So it has some fine old growth - but that requires access roads to get to.The younger stuff has at least 10 more years to grow. Thus the thing is I have glitzy assessment/evaluation of value on the property good enough for east coast bankers that puts the value at say X for collateral (which deftly ignores access and assumes a value really in the long term). But the minute the power company wants to appropriate it for a high voltage tower or two, their guy iis going to value at what it worth sans improvement on that day and it is not X by a long shot. So you can bet no matter the greater good I am going to fight to the last to avoid that situation. And in the US I have the tools to do that for a while longer and if I get my back up and a neighbor and know a lawyer as a friend, not so much in China.
    Yes, property laws are much better in the US compared to anywhere else in the world, even in australia, but you're one of the privileged few in america who have the resources to battle the government in court; a lot of ppl don't have that privilege.

    In China the government moved people out of old hutongs and into modern apartments; they gave them those apartments so when the real estate value increased in the past ten years, the people benefited from it. That's one of many reasons why the NIMBYism in China is so rare compared to the developed world.

    I'll answer that when the Dalai Lama is allowed to hang about in Lhasa or you know when everyone in China express what the hell they want on the internet
    The DL is more than welcome to return to Lhasa, he just has to answer for his crimes against the Tibetan people; i'm sure imprisonment and penance will be nothing for someone who believes in spirituality and reincarnation.

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    The last really depends on time. How many end up like Sri Lanka with assets forfeited to what amounts to predatory lending. And I mean that in the total view in isolation the loans and infrastructure do no look so bad. But when you consider friendly China was adding easy new debt to a state that could not afford its debt load and that load came with a catch - that is predatory. Now I'll be impressed with China when also offers to restructure Sri Lanka's crushing open market debt load the one that made it have pass on paying off debt to China. But wait they might ask for reforms and anti corruption efforts and gosh sound like the world bank or the IMF. I mean Is suppose Sri Lanka got a pointless empty harbor (to anyone but China) but the fact is the market's were not wrong there were any number of things Sri Lanka could spent debt on not the least just paying off worse debt that would have been better.
    China actually forgives more debt than IMF/World Bank, US financial institutions and rarely takes over assets as is the common practice of the Soros type, US vulture funds.

    If China behaved like any other predatory western nation, would they have as much influence over the global south as much as they have today?

    Let me illustrate:


    Those are African soldiers marching in Chinese style, trained by PLA trainers, shouting Chinese orders (one, two, one two)

    On a racial relations level in the US, many of the african american athletes in the US have refused to join the sinophobic witch hunts in america, which is understandable considering the level of repression against coloured people in the apartheid US state.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Debt-peonage is part of the design. When China is holding meetings on a new security arrangement in the Pacific and Indian ocean, do you really think debt leverage is a weakness in these negotiations? Ukraine shows both the benefits and liabilities of such strategies. Ukraine is now extremely anti-Russian, but that was after almost two decades of debt-fuelled subservience in the Russian sphere of influence. If Euromaidan didn't spiral out of control, we'd probably be looking at Russia working on decade #3 in Ukraine.
    Again, China forgives more debt than the Washington Consensus; that's why the atlanticists hate and fear China so much; the global south is rooting for China and hordes of african soldiers will invade the florida coast, storming the beaches of Vice City from Chinese LSATs.

  10. #90
    Legio_Italica's Avatar Lost in Limbo
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    China rocks and to suggest any less is racist. Simple, bold, false. But, if we’ve learned anything these past couple years, it’s that one only needs the first two to be successful. Trump and the CCP have each demonstrated that masterfully and in their own ways when it comes to propaganda.

  11. #91
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    On a racial relations level in the US, many of the african american athletes in the US have refused to join the sinophobic witch hunts in america, which is understandable considering the level of repression against coloured people in the apartheid US state.
    Still what witch hunt, and on not sure I see some pro China feeling amounts athletes.

    Again, China forgives more debt than the Washington Consensus
    Not so much...

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-c...-idUSKCN1U62NR
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  12. #92

    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    The IMF is primarily European controlled, and part of France's attempt to retain influence over francafrique and the CFA Franc; rather, look more to studies conducted by traitor white americans:
    Why China’s belt and road loans may not be the debt trap other countries fear


    • Study by US-based Rhodium Group finds only one confirmed case of asset seizure and says Beijing is more likely to renegotiate burdensome debts



    China is inclined to renegotiate or write off debts incurred by other countries for its belt and road infrastructure projects and only rarely seizes assets, a study by a New York consultancy has found.

    The Rhodium Group’s research looked at 40 cases of external debt renegotiation between 2007 and this year and found there was only one confirmed case of asset seizure – in Sri Lanka.
    Source: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...ebt-trap-other

    Also
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapo.../#2546449a615b

    @topic

    The crux of the topic is that China has rendered all of the US Navy, sitting ducks; the casualties required for a war with China would be too heavy and would require the draft but given the Slaaneshi nature of the american fighting age man, the match would be like watching the cast of Superbad go up against a Chinese MMA fighter.
    Last edited by Exarch; October 17, 2019 at 09:50 AM.

  13. #93
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Yes, I recall these antics from the great Chinese military parade, in Command & Conquer: Red Alert. But during that parade the third world attacked them :/
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










  14. #94
    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    First things first, out of the Chinese internet we've got what's rumoured to be a DF-17 test; check out the maneuverability!!



    The reaction of the americans butthurt over NBA players refusing to tow the government line on China is a sad testament to how far the US has fallen; respect for others' political opinions or lack thereof has been trampled upon for the sake of the madness of drumming up support for a war against China. These days, no american can even express an objective opinion before being crucified for being a panda hugger or communist sympathiser. McCarthyist much?


    The US under this administration crossed several lines, even going so far as to kidnap the daughter of the CEO of a rival firm, simply because he refused to allow backdoors to the FVEYEs, a racist white supremacist organisation. Happily, the response has been for China to detain several US spies; who the hell knows what sort of debriefing the Ministry of State Security is getting from those US spies once they crack from the psychological torture of the MSS.



    I'm finding that California, Ferguson, the imprisonment of native activists against pipelines...all of that is a feature, rather than an exception to US corporatist capitalism which resembles feudalism or oligarchies of the post soviet era. Couple that with the extreme militarism in order to distract the working poor from revolution, and you have the nucleus of a fascistic state in the making.


    First of all, declining birth rates are a feature of developed nations, naturally the birth rate will go down as the females use their most fertile years for study and academia, rather than family. Fortunately for China, the 2 child policy has had a marked effect in the past 2-3 years it was enacted: https://twitter.com/PDChina/status/1164854802079244288

    Secondly, the problem as you're inferring, isn't so much population growth leading to economic growth, but rather, quality of growth.

    Importing the 3rd world and their values into your society for instance, might increase economic growth for a while, driving up demand but does all for societal cohesion and plants the seeds of civil unrest, eg Sweden, UK, the US compared to the ethnic and cultural cohesion of China which itself has over 56 different ethnicities and yet remains united and cohesive for China.
    Can the same be said for the rise of the alt-right in the West?



    China's the exception, didn't you know that? It's like God gave up on the Israelites being his chosen people and went all in on the Chinese. Where was China back in 2009? Where is China today? The change is incredible and testament more to what the human spirit is capable. Anyone can do it, even lazy, chronic masturbators in the western world could do it if they stopped posting on r/thedonald or 8chan for once and picked up a shovel.



    Not the companies that matter: Tesla, Microsoft, Apple....

    Who are the big hitters who've moved out of China?

    More to the point, US business are refusing to do their bit in the race war that the White House has instigated:

    Source: https://www.ft.com/content/d9490bae-...4-3669401ba76f



    Sorry, the facts on the ground don't match with that canard

    Source: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...will-only-hurt




    That's a lot of talking points and tropes about big bad China. For such a big bad place, Chinese people sure do express a great deal of patriotism-something that scares the out of americans who have only recently discovered that China is America's America.


    This past week, Indian President Modi feted Chinese President Xi; i'm not seeing a lot of results for indians wanting to fight and die for white anglo supremacy, much as the indian londoners are keen to do so, i have no doubt.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    China isn't the Soviet Union; it's bigger, deadlier, more committed, more consistent and here to stay.

    As Apollo Creed put it, China has the Eye of the Tiger whereas the US lost it a long time ago:
    What an utter clown show. Hope you arent muslim, other wise you'll end up in a Chinese concentration camp and have your organs ripped out.
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

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    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade




    https://rhg.com/research/new-data-on...trap-question/

    You should read the study directly with editorial content.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapo.../#6caf8957615b

    So 10 Billion

    World bank writes of debt as well

    https://www.worldbank.org/en/topic/debt/brief/hipc

    99 Billion.

    Also There can be some downside to China not having an interest in corruption or good practices.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...8300021#bb0175

    "The results consistently indicate that Chinese aid projects fuel local corruption. Investigating possible underlying theoretical mechanisms, the effect does not appear to be driven simply by an increase in economic activity. Rather, suggestive evidence seems to suggest that the Chinese presence impacts local norms.
    Running equivalent estimations for World Bank aid projects, for which there is also geo-referenced data available for a large multi-country African sample, the estimations provide no consistent evidence of a corresponding increase in local corruption around project sites. In particular, whereas the results indicate that Chinese aid projects fuel local corruption but have no observable impact on local economic activity, they suggest that World Bank aid projects stimulate local economic activity without any consistent evidence of it fuelling local corruption."

    Also

    http://docs.aiddata.org/ad4/pdfs/WPS...cteristics.pdf


    The crux of the topic is that China has rendered all of the US Navy, sitting ducks; the casualties required for a war with China would be too heavy and would require the draft but given the Slaaneshi nature of the american fighting age man, the match would be like watching the cast of Superbad go up against a Chinese MMA fighter.
    How again with what?

    But in any case I will believe hype of any major power talking a advanced tech and its wonderful capabilities as soon as I see them execute a really large exercise designed to include the fog of war with insert wonder weapon made by anyone the USA, China or Russia or Israel, etc. Sorry a military parade does not count.

    ----


    Edit:

    rather, look more to studies conducted by traitor white americans:
    They are traitors how again you do seem to have difficulty with an open society.
    Last edited by conon394; October 17, 2019 at 02:43 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    China is a paper dragon. It has an artificial economy that is held up by the thing which it seeks to undermine - the west - and an extremely backwards military. Much like the annoying dog at the park China makes itself look threatening barking really loud and bullying those smaller that it, but if you punch China in its ugly mutt face it will run away sobbing.
    Under the patronage of Pie the Inkster Click here to find a hidden gem on the forum!


  17. #97
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    China is a paper dragon. It has an artificial economy that is held up by the thing which it seeks to undermine - the west - and an extremely backwards military. Much like the annoying dog at the park China makes itself look threatening barking really loud and bullying those smaller that it, but if you punch China in its ugly mutt face it will run away sobbing.
    Nice tirade. How i wish it would be true. Nobody would directly confront China, so it's pretty irelevant how it's military compares to other forces. It only needs to bully the smaller neighbours. Tibet is an obvious example of how utterly unable the West is to intervene.
    Last edited by swabian; October 17, 2019 at 03:45 PM.

  18. #98
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    I know, right

    https://21stcenturyasianarmsrace.com...monthly-basis/
    The US wouldn't risk a nuclear exchange with China over Taiwan. China is not a direct threat to the West (only one functioning aircraft carrier @Exarch lol), but there's not much anyone can do about China expanding it's influence in southeast Asia.

  19. #99

    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    I wouldn't risk a carrier group over Taiwan. The people of Taiwan themselves are split over what the relationship with PRC should look like. The sensible thing is to allow the relationship to develop as naturally as possible. Of course we know the real reason why we like Taiwan being out of PRC's hands, and it has little to do with Taiwan's right to sovereignty.

  20. #100

    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    Yes, I recall these antics from the great Chinese military parade, in Command & Conquer: Red Alert. But during that parade the third world attacked them :/
    Love that game; even back then in 2003, the depiction fo 60s era Chinese military tech for a war set in 2013, was always a reflection of Western misconceptions of China; thats why China's rise has been such a rude awakening for so many westerners.

    Quote Originally Posted by JP226 View Post
    What an utter clown show. Hope you arent muslim, other wise you'll end up in a Chinese concentration camp and have your organs ripped out.
    That old tripe again?

    Tell me again how compatible uighur donors are to han chinese or even white european american recipients? The anti science movement in america is quite discernible amongst modern americans.
    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post


    How again with what?

    But in any case I will believe hype of any major power talking a advanced tech and its wonderful capabilities as soon as I see them execute a really large exercise designed to include the fog of war with insert wonder weapon made by anyone the USA, China or Russia or Israel, etc. Sorry a military parade does not count..
    Don't you worry, there's plenty of those; also, let me show you the scale and speed of China's naval buildup:


    Rumours on the Chinese internet is that those are type 52 destroyers under construction; at current rates of production the PLAN will be the largest and most advanced Navy in the world; no wonder the Pentagon wants a war now, they're not going to win a war this time next year or any year after that.

    Even the CIA stooges over at Reuters had to break the grim news to their white supremacist overlords:
    Exclusive: Satellite images reveal China's aircraft carrier 'factory,' analysts say







    Greg Torode, Michael Martina
    6 MIN READ









    HONG KONG/BEIJING (Reuters) - High-resolution satellite images show that the construction of ChinaÂ’s first full-sized aircraft carrier is progressing steadily alongside expansive infrastructure work that analysts say suggests the ship will be the first of several large vessels produced at the site.
    Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-c...-idUSKBN1WW0KM

    They are traitors how again you do seem to have difficulty with an open society
    For such an Open Society, there seems to be a lot of fascistic attitudes towards opinions that contradict the Government line; check out the Wrongthink accusations against the NBA and Blizzard and those were only neutral comments. To the American establishment and the people who follow them, any american who displays such wrongthink is a traitor; a race traitor at that if they're white. Black Americans are merely expected to serve the white apartheid state of america or else be gunned down.


    A free and open society would allow comments by individuals without harassment and political persecution. The United States has a long way to go before it evolves to become a civilised state.


    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    China is a paper dragon. It has an artificial economy that is held up by the thing which it seeks to undermine - the west - and an extremely backwards military. Much like the annoying dog at the park China makes itself look threatening barking really loud and bullying those smaller that it, but if you punch China in its ugly mutt face it will run away sobbing.
    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    Nice tirade. How i wish it would be true. Nobody would directly confront China, so it's pretty irelevant how it's military compares to other forces. It only needs to bully the smaller neighbours. Tibet is an obvious example of how utterly unable the West is to intervene.
    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    I know, right

    https://21stcenturyasianarmsrace.com...monthly-basis/
    The US wouldn't risk a nuclear exchange with China over Taiwan. China is not a direct threat to the West (only one functioning aircraft carrier @Exarch lol), but there's not much anyone can do about China expanding it's influence in southeast Asia.
    You want to know why white america is in decline?
    It's because of the attitude of the above comments; no humility, no desire to learn; only shouting slogans and living off the laurels of better generations before. Not to say it's a uniquely american trait, every nation in the world has gone through stagnation in the past; in this, the modern US resembles Qing dyasty China of the early 1900s or the Ottomons of the same era.

    Worse, american society is ill equipened to tackle the future given corruption in US society:
    The 'Glass Floor' Is Keeping America's Richest Idiots At The Top

    Elites are finding more ways to ensure that their children never run out of chances to fail.
    Source: https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/en...076?ri18n=true
    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    I wouldn't risk a carrier group over Taiwan. The people of Taiwan themselves are split over what the relationship with PRC should look like. The sensible thing is to allow the relationship to develop as naturally as possible. Of course we know the real reason why we like Taiwan being out of PRC's hands, and it has little to do with Taiwan's right to sovereignty.
    Taiwan is just as much likely to flip towards mainland China; that's the reason the Pentagon refuses to sell the F-35 to the ROC Air Force-not that it'd do much against the Sukhois and J-20s and drones that the PLAAF has in its arsenal.

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