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Thread: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

  1. #101
    JP226's Avatar Suspended
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    Love that game; even back then in 2003, the depiction fo 60s era Chinese military tech for a war set in 2013, was always a reflection of Western misconceptions of China; thats why China's rise has been such a rude awakening for so many westerners.


    That old tripe again?

    Tell me again how compatible uighur donors are to han chinese or even white european american recipients? The anti science movement in america is quite discernible amongst modern Americans.


    Don't you worry, there's plenty of those; also, let me show you the scale and speed of China's naval buildup:


    Rumours on the Chinese internet is that those are type 52 destroyers under construction; at current rates of production the PLAN will be the largest and most advanced Navy in the world; no wonder the Pentagon wants a war now, they're not going to win a war this time next year or any year after that.

    Even the CIA stooges over at Reuters had to break the grim news to their white supremacist overlords:

    Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-c...-idUSKBN1WW0KM



    For such an Open Society, there seems to be a lot of fascistic attitudes towards opinions that contradict the Government line; check out the Wrongthink accusations against the NBA and Blizzard and those were only neutral comments. To the American establishment and the people who follow them, any american who displays such wrongthink is a traitor; a race traitor at that if they're white. Black Americans are merely expected to serve the white apartheid state of america or else be gunned down.


    A free and open society would allow comments by individuals without harassment and political persecution. The United States has a long way to go before it evolves to become a civilised state.








    You want to know why white america is in decline?
    It's because of the attitude of the above comments; no humility, no desire to learn; only shouting slogans and living off the laurels of better generations before. Not to say it's a uniquely american trait, every nation in the world has gone through stagnation in the past; in this, the modern US resembles Qing dyasty China of the early 1900s or the Ottomons of the same era.

    Worse, american society is ill equipened to tackle the future given corruption in US society:

    Source: https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/en...076?ri18n=true

    Taiwan is just as much likely to flip towards mainland China; that's the reason the Pentagon refuses to sell the F-35 to the ROC Air Force-not that it'd do much against the Sukhois and J-20s and drones that the PLAAF has in its arsenal.
    So... exterminating/ genocide against uyghurs is a good thing?

    I guarantee that were going to find the holocaust 2.0 is going on in China within the next 5 to 10 years. Question is will we handle them like we did the Nazis?
    Last edited by Abdlmecid I; October 19, 2019 at 05:14 AM. Reason: Hate-speech removed.

  2. #102

    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by JP226 View Post
    So... exterminating/ genocide against uyghurs is a good thing?
    Where's the genocide against uighurs? You mind telling the majority Uighur security details in Xinjiang so they can put a stop to it?

    Oh what's that? It's only in your mind? But of course, as is your and every american's fantasy of ww2 redux: pacific boogaloo.

    I guarantee that were going to find the holocaust 2.0 is going on in China within the next 5 to 10 years. Question is will we handle them like we did the Nazis?
    By giving them asylum and incorporating their racist philosophy into mainstream american politics, so that there's now an active neonazi movement as a political force in modern USA?

    The men who stormed Normandy and Iwo Jima would puke at seeing what the modern USA has become; concentration camps in the southern border for central and south americans, rape and murders along the southern border abetted by sadistic border guards and militia groups; pogroms against ethnic minorities, specifically Chinese Americans.

    There's a reason people are calling the current USA, Weimerica. You even have communists and fascists having street fights. Someone actually died in Portland from such a street fight last week, yet in China, after 4 months of protests, not a single protestor has died from the police. Who's the fascist nation now?


    Its amazing how a culture built on the thievery, lies, and deceit think they are the worlds betters. China isnt Germany, it isnt Russia, it isnt even Japan. Its new money trash starting crap and needs to be taken down several pegs, if not outright destroyed. Its an embarrassment to mankind.
    China is Humanity's best chance at becoming a spacefaring species, since the anglohegemonic project known as the United States has failed. Creating an apartheid state society and a soft caste system would only get you so far; eventually, ability and competance will win out over white supremacist ideology.

    Speaking of which, last month, this happened:
    China Launches 5 New Earth Observation Satellites into Orbit
    Source: https://www.space.com/china-third-zh...h-success.html

  3. #103
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    Default Re: No force can stop China: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Uyghurs are the beginning (btw Exarch you are writing it badly ), every totalitarian system is very good at finding enemies. Outside and especially inside walls. So next will be christians and any other independent group, then others and well in the end anybody with low social credit.

    China is actually leading state with state executions and there is lot lost people in those camps. But plenty of spare organs, what a coincidence.

    Say what you want exarch, but you are failing to convince us to move into china. I bet a lot people would love to move out to this evil empire of Murica instead of living in dream chinaland.

    Lets wait and see what emperor Xi Jin-Pooh will create in next decade.
    Last edited by Daruwind; October 18, 2019 at 05:42 AM.

  4. #104

    Default Re: No force can stop China: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    Uyghurs are the beginning (btw Exarch you are writing it badly ),
    lol joke's on you, both spellings are correct:
    The Uyghurs (/ˈwiːɡʊərz/,[19] /uːiˈɡʊərz/; Uyghur: ئۇيغۇرلار‎, уйғурлар, IPA: [ujɣurˈlɑr]; simplified Chinese: 维吾尔; traditional Chinese: 維吾爾; pinyin: Wiw'ěr, [wěiǔàɚ]),[20][21] alternately Uygurs, Uighurs[22] or Uigurs, are a minority Turkic ethnic group originating from and culturally affiliated with the general region of Central and East Asia.
    every totalitarian system is very good at finding enemies. Outside and especially inside walls.
    You just described to a T, a nation that is constantly at war every decade or so: The USA.

    As one of their Presidents put it, the danger of the military industrial complex proved too great a temptation and the US urgently requires an enemy to distract the population from domestic problems and widening inequality. China's inequality is fast closing and the US has worse inequality (compare Gini coefficients).

    So next will be christians and any other independent group, then others and well in the end anybody with low social credit.
    Look, just because that's what an Anglo fascist would do, isn't what Beijing would do; i know the narcissism of anglo fascists is rewarded in modern society, but it does nothing for genuine scholarship.

    China is actually leading state with state executions and there is lot lost people in those camps. But plenty of spare organs, what a coincidence.
    Actually, it proves the wastage and excess and inefficiency of the US apartheid system; the US actually leads in per capita executions, not counting the open execution of black americans simply for existing. For instance, no Chinese police officer is allowed to go into an ethnic minority's apartment and execute them the way Amber Guyger was able to kill a black man in his own home.

    Say what you want exarch, but you are failing to convince us to move into china. I bet a lot people would love to move out to this evil empire of Murica instead of living in dream chinaland.
    I'm not here to convince anyone of anything; i despise bull , and i see it aplenty here in the mudpit.

    Lets wait and see what emperor Xi Jin-Pooh will create in next decade.


    contrary to what you and south park thinks, winnie the pooh isn't outlawed in China and the Chinese government has better to concern itself with than the chronic masturbators of 8chan.

    So now that we know that the american MSM is full of when it comes to the winnie the pooh trope, what else have they been lying to you guys about?

    That China would collapse?
    That the US would remain as the No. 1 hegemonic power in the world?
    That the PLA would never surpass the US in weapons tech?

    Reality is proving the lie you guys have been fed; it's quite impressive, this is some north korea tier brainwashing we have here. You guys actually believed Winnie the pooh was banned in China.

    @topic
    More details now on China's 3rd aircraft carrier; this is the one projected to be nuclear powered and to have EMALS:
    racking Chinas third aircraft carrier

    Tracking Chinas third aircraft carrier







    • SHARE
    • JUMP TO



    The construction of Chinas third aircraft carrier appears to be progressing at Shanghais Jiangnan Shipyard.1 Commercial satellite imagery collected on September 18, 2019 shows significant new activity since our last report on May 6, 2019. At that time, our analysis concluded that the large vessel under construction at Jiangnan is consistent with what is expected to be the third aircraft carrier of the Peoples Liberation Army Navy (PLAN). Imagery from September reveals incremental progress on the vessels construction and significant enhancements to the surrounding infrastructure.


    The vessel remains in the early stages of construction. Although environmental shelters hide much of the ongoing activity, portions of the vessels hull are visible. The latest imagery confirms earlier estimates that the water-level beam of the hull will measure approximately 40 meters in length. What appears to be the vessels stern is also partially visible near the launching way, which is consistent with expectations that the vessel will be launched stern-first. The stern appears unfinished and will likely see further additions that will make the vessels rear more rounded. What is exposed of the ships bow tapers from a width of 38 meters to 34 meters.


    A second tower crane has been added to the assembly facility, suggesting that construction is progressing steadily. These tower cranes will be used to lower prefabricated components into the hull. While they are partially obscured by a gantry crane in the satellite imagery, low-altitude imagery corroborates the presence of the new tower crane.
    Prefabricated ship components await assembly near the vessels hull and on the roads adjacent to the assembly facility. These components include internal deck sections measuring approximately 12 meters by 27 meters in size, which will in time be positioned within the hull. There are also several bulkheads, each measuring approximately 39 meters in length, which will be affixed to different portions of the ship. Additionally, there are two tapered hull components (approximately 38 meters in length) that could be used to form part of the v-shaped portion of the bow.
    Given the current status of the vessel and the pace of construction thus far, hull construction is likely to continue for approximately the next 12 months. Once the hull is completed, internal components and deck sections will be added. This will be followed by the addition of the vessels superstructure (the features that appear above the main deck), such as the island (assuming the vessel is in fact an aircraft carrier). During this stage, workers will need to remove the environmental shelters, which should allow for a more complete view of the vessel.


    Significant progress has been made on the newly constructed basin where the vessel is likely to be outfitted. Work has begun on what appears to be an approximately 940-meter-long dock on the eastern side of the basin. A new seawall is being added across from the dock, where the existing flood control system and surrounding sediment are waiting to be removed. When completed, the new basin is expected to be nearly three times larger than the existing floodable basin situated within the military shipyard.
    The presence of a dredger and a barge hauling dredged material indicates that efforts to deepen and clear out the basin are ongoing. Two crane barges can also be seen driving piles into the basin floor to improve the basins stability. The reinforcement of the basin floor suggests that the area is being prepared for berthing and fitting-out large vessels.
    The upgrades to the new basin adjacent to the assembly facility suggest that (once launched) the vessel will be outfitted in the basin. However, it would not be unreasonable for the vessel to be moved elsewhere within Jiangnan Shipyard as progress continues.
    Design Soviet Chinese Chinese
    Beam 75m 75m
    Launch Type STOBAR STOBAR CATOBAR
    Propulsion Conventional Conventional Conventional

    Various unofficial reports speculate that the conventionally-powered third carrier will be larger than its predecessors and will feature an electromagnetic catapult launch system. The carrier is projected to be operational by 2022.
    Source: https://chinapower.csis.org/china-carrier-type-002/

  5. #105
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    More details now on China's 3rd aircraft carrier; this is the one projected to be nuclear powered and to have EMALS:
    Your mixing rumors about the 4th CV with the third. Check you own site - Likely steam powered, but true CATOBAR.

    check out the Wrongthink accusations against the NBA and Blizzard and those were only neutral comments. To the American establishment and the people who follow them, any american who displays such wrongthink is a traitor; a race traitor at that if they're white. Black Americans are merely expected to serve the white apartheid state of america or else be gunned down.
    A free and open society would allow comments by individuals without harassment and political persecution. The United States has a long way to go before it evolves to become a civilised state.
    I really not sure I understand either sentence. The reaction to Blizzard and NBA was because they chose for corporate reason to hush free speech. I not sure what where you get the race traitor thing.

    ----

    That China would collapse?
    Overall doubtful anyone has that that prediction since the cultural revolution.

    If you mean the hold of the Communist party on power, quite possibly in the aftermath of the USSR falling apart. Certainly the basis sort of for the fast tracking China into the WTO.

    That the US would remain as the No. 1 hegemonic power in the world?
    People began talking about a multi poler world almost as soon as the USSR collapsed and EU seems like a solid and expanding project.

    That the PLA would never surpass the US in weapons tech?
    Have they?


    For instance, no Chinese police officer is allowed to go into an ethnic minority's apartment and execute them the way Amber Guyger was able to kill a black man in his own home.
    Murder Charge - you keep forgetting that.

    Taiwan is just as much likely to flip towards mainland China; that's the reason the Pentagon refuses to sell the F-35 to the ROC Air Force-not that it'd do much against the Sukhois and J-20s and drones that the PLAAF has in its arsenal.
    You might rather be the US is comfortable with eh status quo, and the F-35. Contrary to what you might think I really doubt you could find a single us flag officer, or PLAN on or Republic of Taiwan one that would welcome a war. Of course they all make plans, and talk about capabilities etc. You should screen out overwrought reports from a handful of neo con think tanks. The is not trying to sell Taiwan build an army for independence but to preserve the status quo.

    Don't you worry, there's plenty of those; also, let me show you the scale and speed of China's naval buildup:
    That's quite the answer I was looking. But in any case I be more impressed with the building if saw some real original thinking. The 005 looks good, but in many ways its strikes as the same as everyone else's current top line FF/DD or whatever you call. Expensive and probably a one hit wreck also I think two helos is a waste and probably the rest of the ASW kit.
    Last edited by conon394; October 18, 2019 at 09:18 AM.
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  6. #106

    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Perhaps I'm being a bit daft here, but why be so smug about a slightly faster Nuke?

    So you'd get an extra minute or two to feel smug and superior before the retaliatory strikes turn you into plasma...

    Big wow...

    BTW. Can we have less of the 'race traitor' stuff please. This is a discussion forum, not 8chan.

  7. #107

    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    I really not sure I understand either sentence. The reaction to Blizzard and NBA was because they chose for corporate reason to hush free speech. I not sure what where you get the race traitor thing.
    The Blizzard/ NBA thing is more akin to the current ongoing debate of Free Speech and the silencing on youtube, twitter, twitch etc of political speech which the American Establishment finds uncomfortable, namely the alt-right, "race realism", white nationalism etc etc.

    Some elements of the American Establishment are feeling the pressure and are hoping to distract the public from problems at home with a new cold war Chinese bogeyman. In order to achieve this, voices of reason are bullied into silence and harassment as Lebron and Blizzard are experiencing. Blizzard did the right thing; if someone wants to be a political martyr, they have to take their lumps.


    Overall doubtful anyone has that that prediction since the cultural revolution.
    I think you're at least a Gen-Xer or Gen-Y, so you'd have been inundated with the American MSM over how China was going to collapse within the next decade 'due to contradictions between free market capitalism and outdated communism'. You'd have article after article in Time magazine, The Economist predicting the fall of china. It's how Gordon Chang and Peter Navarro managed to grift their way into relevance and riches with a gullible american public who were told that theirs was the end of history.


    People began talking about a multi poler world almost as soon as the USSR collapsed and EU seems like a solid and expanding project.
    If i recall, the talk was actually the opposite; Bush the Elder's infamous 'New World Order' speech and Unipolar Moment and Project For A New American Century were indications that the American oligarchy were intent on pursuing hegemony.


    Have they?
    Yes, it went hand in hand with the racist trope that Chinese-or Asians for that matter- couldn't innovate (rather peculiar for the civilisation that gave us the compass, the wheelbarrow, gunpowder and repeating crossbows), that ONLY freedom of speech would allow for innovation (again, a myth and a lie designed to perpetuate the Washington Consensus), that western white supremacy was assured so long as technological and patent leads were led by US companies.
    (kinda strange how these same proponents never squared the circle that Silicon Valleyand UC innovation centres were spearheaded by ethnic Chinese americans).

    Such myths were perpetuated and believed because it kept the american people docile and supportive of a government/elite structure that continued to exploit them, much as jim crow laws were encated as much to keep the poor divided along racial lines and unable to threaten the rich for a more egalitarian society.

    Murder Charge - you keep forgetting that.
    You watch, white female will get parole within a year or three; if it were any other race, they'd be looking at decades.

    You might rather be the US is comfortable with eh status quo, and the F-35. Contrary to what you might think I really doubt you could find a single us flag officer, or PLAN on or Republic of Taiwan one that would welcome a war. Of course they all make plans, and talk about capabilities etc. You should screen out overwrought reports from a handful of neo con think tanks. The is not trying to sell Taiwan build an army for independence but to preserve the status quo.
    I'm sure anyone who actually has to put blood on the line doesn't want to waste it for the BS imperial aspirations of chickenhawks; the american people are being conditioned for a future war with China, as the Bannon/white western civilisation/14 words types are hoping. They are like the British government of 1914, pushing us into war so long as it'll keep revolution at bay (i'm referring to the irish revolution in that case).

    That's quite the answer I was looking. But in any case I be more impressed with the building if saw some real original thinking. The 005 looks good, but in many ways its strikes as the same as everyone else's current top line FF/DD or whatever you call. Expensive and probably a one hit wreck also I think two helos is a waste and probably the rest of the ASW kit.
    Such weapons and their implied capabilities are required unfortunately, in an era where American elites are prepared to throw out non poliferation treaties in and effort to maintain hegemony.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeft View Post
    Perhaps I'm being a bit daft here, but why be so smug about a slightly faster Nuke?
    Because it'll give less time for the smug american elites, your hilary clintons, your Podestas, your weinsteins etc to get to their fallout shelters/retreats in new zealand.

    I don't think anyone can get from the Hamptons to new zealand in 20 minutes, i don't care how hypersonic your private airplane is.

    So you'd get an extra minute or two to feel smug and superior before the retaliatory strikes turn you into plasma...
    I'm hoping to spend that extra minute enjoying KFC before i die

    BTW. Can we have less of the 'race traitor' stuff please. This is a discussion forum, not 8chan.
    Well it is relevant in an era where sitting US officials have actively called for a 'whole of society/civilisation' war against China, where ethnic Chinese students and workersin the US are being harassed and spied upon by US police and FBI and being blackmailed into acting as spies.

    EDIT:
    When the american press talks constantly about 'the Chinese' and 'the Chinese government', it's a dog whistle to equate the two with the disclaimer 'oh we only hate the chinese government'. Nah, it's just a cover for the american people to express the last acceptable racism, against the Chinese and downstream, against all asians since no american is going to be able to differentiate between asians.
    Under the tacit support of the USG, sinophobia is becoming normalised, it's only a matter of time before they start putting Chinese people into concentration camps as was the case previously with japanese americans and as was the talk after 9/11 of putting arabs into concentration camps., before putting arabs into actual concetration camps in Camp X-ray and torturing them.
    Last edited by Exarch; October 18, 2019 at 07:00 PM.

  8. #108
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    Default Re: No force can stop China: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    Nice tirade. How i wish it would be true. Nobody would directly confront China, so it's pretty irelevant how it's military compares to other forces. It only needs to bully the smaller neighbours. Tibet is an obvious example of how utterly unable the West is to intervene.
    It's the truth. The Chinese economy as it is today is propped up by western companies. If western companies pull out you suddenly have several hundred million unemployed citizens. Most of the Chinese military is build on old soviet equipment and while it tries to modernize it will still be another 50 years until it will be able to fully catch up and keep to the west. At the moment the Chinese rely solely on large numbers

    Nobody intervened in Tibet for 2 big fat reasons: 1. There was a cold war and threat of nuclear war going on at the time.
    2. It was 5 years after WWII and most of the Western world was still in ruins at the time.
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  9. #109
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Yes, it went hand in hand with the racist trope that Chinese-or Asians for that matter- couldn't innovate (rather peculiar for the civilisation that gave us the compass, the wheelbarrow, gunpowder and repeating crossbows), that ONLY freedom of speech would allow for innovation (again, a myth and a lie designed to perpetuate the Washington Consensus), that western white supremacy was assured so long as technological and patent leads were led by US companies.
    Really you need play the history game of who invented what thing. But if we must it would seem the Athenians can claim the Wheelbarrow by about 3 centuries (assuming Needham's 1st century BC dating for China). Got to love those Monokyklos

    hat ONLY freedom of speech would allow for innovation
    Well its worth noting that after reception gunpowder and the compass certainly proliferated and were subject to more consistent innovation the West than in China over the centuries. But arguing over why that was is really a history question and little to with current issues of a vastly different time. Rather more VV.

    I think you're at least a Gen-Xer or Gen-Y, so you'd have been inundated with the American MSM over how China was going to collapse within the next decade 'due to contradictions between free market capitalism and outdated communism'. You'd have article after article in Time magazine, The Economist predicting the fall of china. It's how Gordon Chang and Peter Navarro managed to grift their way into relevance and riches with a gullible american public who were told that theirs was the end of history.
    How perceptive Gordon Chang I hang on his every word... wait who? I will google that give me a minute. Oh OK that guy so what. Forget "The coming war with Japan", "Dow 40,000", The Euro as the worlds reserve currency? But on Chang even a blind squirrel can find a nut or at least a grain of truth. The Chinese government is sitting on a lot of state owned or guaranteed debt and its reporting about is nothing short of opaque. Be if for under performing high speed rail lines, steel producers, or banks that have to be recapitalized. That uncertainty certainly allows for hack book sales. But is you step aside from you weird race war obsessions the US churns out a lot of those every year its a thing.

    On Navaro - again blind squirrl nuts.

    "According to Politico trade reporter Megan Cassella, "Navarro is perhaps the most extreme advocate in Washington, and maybe in all of economics, for an aggressive stance toward China"

    The man would not likely get through the door if any other republican had won. But as I said he is right about the WTO thing. Other than that he is kind of a loon but Trump likes that.

    (kinda strange how these same proponents never squared the circle that Silicon Valleyand UC innovation centres were spearheaded by ethnic Chinese americans).
    On wonders where you get news. Seeing as by in large outside the actual racist white supremacy nuts nobody really cares.

    If i recall, the talk was actually the opposite; Bush the Elder's infamous 'New World Order' speech and Unipolar Moment and Project For A New American Century were indications that the American oligarchy were intent on pursuing hegemony.
    So that is you actually have not read the speech then?

    But I did say that yes you can find some triumphalism (but it not really that speech) in that era. But in fact Exarch the US did not in fact act as you suggest. China should be happy about that. Rather feeling quite confident and trending toward budget suppleness. It cut back its military. The US pushed for China to be in the WTO. Even though by any rational measure China's economy was opaque, heavyly state owned although often in a more indirect way than that implies, indifference IP protection was common, its labor laws and environmental protections were wildly out of sync with say the US or EU, etc. Its labor cost almost assuredly helped kill the best potential NAFTA outcomes. Sorry an 'Oligarchy' intent on hegemony in some planned way would not have made that decision. Nor would for example it have failed to implement an industrial policy to sustain Mountain Pass (or just make a government operation) to maintain rare earth production in the US (and thus explicitly be blithely be happy with a Chinese monopoly)

    Some elements of the American Establishment are feeling the pressure and are hoping to distract the public from problems at home with a new cold war Chinese bogeyman. In order to achieve this, voices of reason are bullied into silence and harassment as Lebron and Blizzard are experiencing. Blizzard did the right thing; if someone wants to be a political martyr, they have to take their lumps.
    Geopolitics between Great powers does not necessarily equal race war or some Machiavellian domestic strategy.

    That a grifter like Trump decides to occasionally listen to second or third rate talent, his own bizarre urges and racists like Bannon does not really describe US policy since the end of the cold war

    The Blizzard/ NBA thing is more akin to the current ongoing debate of Free Speech and the silencing on youtube, twitter, twitch etc of political speech which the American Establishment finds uncomfortable, namely the alt-right, "race realism", white nationalism etc etc.
    Wow or maybe some people feel they support the protest in Hong Kong, and are disappointed some parts of the Business and Industry world could care less. You do realize that happens all the time maybe over where Red Lobster buys its fish, or if some brand is implicated in using near slavery sweatshops in Bangladesh, etc etc. Sure no doubt you can surf the web and find extremist stuff, but you telling in either the Japan/China spat or the current Japan Korea spat and nit find inflammatory nationalism?

    You watch, white female will get parole within a year or three; if it were any other race, they'd be looking at decades.
    Check back then in a year? Hey when do suppose Wang dan can go home?

    I'm sure anyone who actually has to put blood on the line doesn't want to waste it for the BS imperial aspirations of chickenhawks; the american people are being conditioned for a future war with China, as the Bannon/white western civilisation/14 words types are hoping. They are like the British government of 1914, pushing us into war so long as it'll keep revolution at bay (i'm referring to the irish revolution in that case).
    OK whatever - I got nothing. You really think the UK went to war in WW1 because of some fear of Irish revolution? I like some ideal where you dug that up.

    Such weapons and their implied capabilities are required unfortunately, in an era where American elites are prepared to throw out non proliferation treaties in and effort to maintain hegemony.
    You got that one wrong. The fact China is not in the INF (if that is the one you mean) is the reason the to leave. Oddly enough it is again a rare blind squire nut thing. Since China was unconstrained by the treaty, Russia was eventually going to have to start cheating. Also of course along its whole southern border various other states like them some ballistic missiles - India, Iran for example. Realistically another administration should likely have tried to two things either renegotiate the treaty and possibly bring China in in some capacity. However realistically that was never going to work. At the end of the day Russia has fairly valid reasons to cheat, and also valid reasons to see US anti missile structures as duel us, the US was not going to give up them, and China was not going to buy into limits that it would have to see as constraining its capacity to counter Russia or the US (always a problem the feeling you letting somebody else lock in an advantage). The INF's day was done.

    But I'm not sure what you point is hegemonic states hand over they Hegemony when? China would?

    Besides that does not answer my question. I certainly was not suggesting China a should not build. I am just underwhelmed by them. Theoretically the PLAN could bring new thinking to the table but I see none of it. Also they are a bit short legged. I would have thought range/endurance might count a bit more after all something got to escort the CVs if you want make India have to keep its ships in port.

    Because it'll give less time for the smug american elites, your hilary clintons, your Podestas, your weinsteins etc to get to their fallout shelters/retreats in new zealand.

    I don't think anyone can get from the Hamptons to new zealand in 20 minutes, i don't care how hypersonic your private airplane is.
    You are still missing the point. The missile in question has been deployed for a couple years. Yes it is the final piece of the puzzle in making China equal to the US and Russia, but realistically its arsenal was already sufficient to make nuclear war a no win situation for either Russia or the US.

    "weinsteins"

    Where do Chinese school rapists get a shelter?

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/arti...es-schoolgirls

    When the american press talks constantly about 'the Chinese' and 'the Chinese government', it's a dog whistle to equate the two with the disclaimer 'oh we only hate the chinese government'. Nah, it's just a cover for the american people to express the last acceptable racism, against the Chinese and downstream, against all asians since no american is going to be able to differentiate between asians.
    Err no. You know all Americans?

    Under the tacit support of the USG, sinophobia is becoming normalised, it's only a matter of time before they start putting Chinese people into concentration camps as was the case previously with japanese americans and as was the talk after 9/11 of putting arabs into concentration camps., before putting arabs into actual concetration camps in Camp X-ray and torturing them.
    Ok. You do realize you sound as conspiracy weird as the alt right types you seem to be up on.
    Last edited by conon394; October 19, 2019 at 12:16 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

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    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  10. #110
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    Again, China forgives more debt than the Washington Consensus; that's why the atlanticists hate and fear China so much; the global south is rooting for China and hordes of african soldiers will invade the florida coast, storming the beaches of Vice City from Chinese LSATs.
    They're lending the money which isn't theirs and just letting it go. I highly doubt their new African friends would actually respect or love the Chinese government and the way they do things - they don't even care about their own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    Uyghurs are the beginning (btw Exarch you are writing it badly ), every totalitarian system is very good at finding enemies.
    There is no reason to suspect the spread of terrorism in Uyghurs is made up. The conflicts have been there and got much worse possibly due to immigration, which is not unique to totalitarian regime. And it was their exemption of religion restriction on those people which allowed the problem to last.

    All incidents like that have always ended up very bloody in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    Reality is proving the lie you guys have been fed; it's quite impressive, this is some north korea tier brainwashing we have here. You guys actually believed Winnie the pooh was banned in China.
    In US you could buy toilet papers with the face of their national leader printed.

    There wouldn't be any misunderstanding if China just removes the Internet firewall. You get any excuse for that?

  11. #111

    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Really you need play the history game of who invented what thing. But if we must it would seem the Athenians can claim the Wheelbarrow by about 3 centuries (assuming Needham's 1st century BC dating for China). Got to love those Monokyklos.
    I'm sure the white nationalists in modern american academia would like to rewrite history so as to make it look like they were the progenitors of technology, but unfortunately for them, the evidence states otherwise. That's why your greek wheelbarrow is only a hypothesis, much like the aryan master race hypothesis.

    This is what i hate about modern america; your leaders are so insecure about their place in the world that they need to invent foundation myths; at least China has the historical record to prove its claims. If America wants to be more like China, it needs less "race realism" and more pragmatism.

    How perceptive Gordon Chang I hang on his every word... wait who? I will google that give me a minute. Oh OK that guy so what. Forget "The coming war with Japan", "Dow 40,000", The Euro as the worlds reserve currency? But on Chang even a blind squirrel can find a nut or at least a grain of truth. The Chinese government is sitting on a lot of state owned or guaranteed debt and its reporting about is nothing short of opaque. Be if for under performing high speed rail lines, steel producers, or banks that have to be recapitalized. That uncertainty certainly allows for hack book sales. But is you step aside from you weird race war obsessions the US churns out a lot of those every year its a thing.
    Gordon Chang is living proof that an idiot and his money are soon parted

    I'm sure the mouthpieces in the western MSM are invested in the idea of "underperforming high speed rail lines etc" but the reality proves otherwise; i still remember the BS back in 2009 over China's "ghost cities" and when the proved to be BS, they simply moved on to the next BS story. Americans love to harp on about the free press and free thought but have proven to be as gullible and as brainwashed as north koreans, which i suppose is understandable since a race based caste society is emotionally invested in myths of its own superiority.

    On Navaro - again blind squirrl nuts.

    "According to Politico trade reporter Megan Cassella, "Navarro is perhaps the most extreme advocate in Washington, and maybe in all of economics, for an aggressive stance toward China"

    The man would not likely get through the door if any other republican had won. But as I said he is right about the WTO thing. Other than that he is kind of a loon but Trump likes that.
    Yet Navarro got in anyway, in the Shining City on the Hill, the example of Democracy set for everyone; did you know he made up an entire source in his books and when confronted about it, tried to explain it away as a harmless joke. Strange how that fictional source went on a racist diatribe against ethnic Chinese americans and how chinese food in america was a communist plot.


    On wonders where you get news. Seeing as by in large outside the actual racist white supremacy nuts nobody really cares.
    Sure, YOU don't care, because you're the beneficiary of actual racist white supremacy; yet come the day when true equality comes a-knockin' and you'll be expressing that infamous white fragility, as we're witnessing in the NBA/Blizzard scandal. Hell, the white supremacists are so triggered at being treated like equals that they're persecuting african americans who refuse to agree with them.

    Again, how is that possible in a 'free and open' society? Or don't non whites count as citizens in the apartheid united states?

    But I did say that yes you can find some triumphalism (but it not really that speech) in that era. But in fact Exarch the US did not in fact act as you suggest. China should be happy about that. Rather feeling quite confident and trending toward budget suppleness. It cut back its military. The US pushed for China to be in the WTO. Even though by any rational measure China's economy was opaque, heavyly state owned although often in a more indirect way than that implies, indifference IP protection was common, its labor laws and environmental protections were wildly out of sync with say the US or EU, etc. Its labor cost almost assuredly helped kill the best potential NAFTA outcomes. Sorry an 'Oligarchy' intent on hegemony in some planned way would not have made that decision. Nor would for example it have failed to implement an industrial policy to sustain Mountain Pass (or just make a government operation) to maintain rare earth production in the US (and thus explicitly be blithely be happy with a Chinese monopoly)
    China's rise in the 90s-000s wasn't because of the US, it was IN SPITE of the US; the entire goal of the US was to ensure China remained a source of cheap labour for its corporations and that it would become just a bigger japan/taiwan/korea/HK. The hope was the with all those Chinese students coming to the US, that they would return as good little servants of the Washington Consensus. Funny thing about the Washington consensus; it only works if it's proven to be a fair and equitable system, and not the apartheid white supremacist power structure that it perpetuates.

    For the era, that's why "congagement" was the buzzword of that era; it's only been the last few years that the USG has decided to opt for new cold war 2.0 when China surpassed US's GDP in PPP


    Geopolitics between Great powers does not necessarily equal race war or some Machiavellian domestic strategy.
    Sorry, i know it's in vogue for americans to deny reality, but you actually have sitting US officials on more than one occasion declare a race war, a 'civilisational' war against China. You actually have white nationalists like Banon in influential positions in the Beltway.

    That a grifter like Trump decides to occasionally listen to second or third rate talent, his own bizarre urges and racists like Bannon does not really describe US policy since the end of the cold war
    We judge by actions, not stated intent, and actions betray actual intent.


    Wow or maybe some people feel they support the protest in Hong Kong, and are disappointed some parts of the Business and Industry world could care less. You do realize that happens all the time maybe over where Red Lobster buys its fish, or if some brand is implicated in using near slavery sweatshops in Bangladesh, etc etc. Sure no doubt you can surf the web and find extremist stuff, but you telling in either the Japan/China spat or the current Japan Korea spat and nit find inflammatory nationalism?
    Americans are fortunate that the Chinese gov. censors the Chinese internet and keeps it away from the US internet; if it didn't, you'd have the entire US internet being taken over by Chinese nationalists with so much weaponised autism that americans would be forced to write chinese just to use the internet.

    Check back then in a year? Hey when do suppose Wang dan can go home?
    Wang Dan is free to go home anytime, much as Edward Snowden is free to return to the US any time.

    Btw, how is Chelsea Manning doing? Funny that Obama pardoned her and yet she's still in prison; strange also that Julian Assange is still being imprisoned in the US anglo state of the UK despite swedish charges having expired and dropped. I thought that the West was about rule of law?

    OK whatever - I got nothing. You really think the UK went to war in WW1 because of some fear of Irish revolution? I like some ideal where you dug that up.
    One of many reasons; irish nationalism was a potent force in the early 20th century, and the irish were becoming militant;
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irelan...ate_in_Ireland

    London hoped the war would rechannel irish sentiment against Germany the same way US elites are trying to use China as a bogeyman to distract its people from potential revolution, and you know it's coming.


    You got that one wrong. The fact China is not in the INF (if that is the one you mean) is the reason the to leave. Oddly enough it is again a rare blind squire nut thing. Since China was unconstrained by the treaty, Russia was eventually going to have to start cheating. Also of course along its whole southern border various other states like them some ballistic missiles - India, Iran for example. Realistically another administration should likely have tried to two things either renegotiate the treaty and possibly bring China in in some capacity. However realistically that was never going to work. At the end of the day Russia has fairly valid reasons to cheat, and also valid reasons to see US anti missile structures as duel us, the US was not going to give up them, and China was not going to buy into limits that it would have to see as constraining its capacity to counter Russia or the US (always a problem the feeling you letting somebody else lock in an advantage). The INF's day was done.
    So strange that a few days after tearing up the treaty, the US then tested a medium range missile; now either the US scientists work that fast, or more likely, that they were working on treaty violating missiles throughout that period.
    https://www.rt.com/news/466829-us-missile-test-banned/

    But anyhow, Chinese hypersonic missiles and stealth drones are a necessity in taming the aggressive american cultural and historic penchant for stealing land and genocide. I don't see Chinese or Russian bases (yet) in Mexico or Cuba or Venezuela, but there sure are plenty of american military assets near China and Russia. It makes sense for China to develop missiles that can bring the war back to the american people who, in a democracy, as just as culpable for the war crimes of their leaders.


    But I'm not sure what you point is hegemonic states hand over they Hegemony when? China would?

    Besides that does not answer my question. I certainly was not suggesting China a should not build. I am just underwhelmed by them.
    I'm sure the americans on the other end of those weapons would be similarly underwhelmed; at the end of the day, weapons of war are meant to kill because they need to provide a deterrent against predatory nation states like the apartheid white supremacist united states.

    Couple apartheid white supremacist caste structures with religious zealotry and you have a formula for impending world nuclear catastrophe.

    Theoretically the PLAN could bring new thinking to the table but I see none of it. Also they are a bit short legged. I would have thought range/endurance might count a bit more after all something got to escort the CVs if you want make India have to keep its ships in port.
    This is the sort of thinking that created military disasters like Dien Bien Phu and the fall of singpore, or for more american centric wars, the korean and vietnam wars.

    As a race based caste soceity, america's privileged white democraphic still finds it hard to believe that they could lose against those whom they believe to be racial inferiors.

    You are still missing the point. The missile in question has been deployed for a couple years. Yes it is the final piece of the puzzle in making China equal to the US and Russia, but realistically its arsenal was already sufficient to make nuclear war a no win situation for either Russia or the US.

    "weinsteins"

    Where do Chinese school rapists get a shelter?

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/arti...es-schoolgirls
    Notice how key witnesses don't get suicided in China? That the perpetrators are brought to justice?

    Funny how key witnesses in america mysteriously die in protective custody and accusers of hollywood bigwigs (ahen kevin spacey) mysteriously commit suicide as well. There sure is a suicide epidemic in the united states, does the CDC know about this?

    Ok. You do realize you sound as conspiracy weird as the alt right types you seem to be up on
    You know, Conon, i'd hoped you'd a least be sensible enough to have a little empathy towards your fellow americans who are only guilty of the crime of practicing science whilst Chinese; instead, you merely re-affirm the apartheid toxic white supremacist culture of the united states. It's really no wonder that so many americans are perfectly fine with their soldiers committing genocide and murder against coloured folks overseas.

    Happily, we are witnessing americans being taught a lesson that they are not immune to downstream effects, much as germans who waved the nazi flag at rallies, then had to put up with firebombs and mass soviet rape.
    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    It's the truth. The Chinese economy as it is today is propped up by western companies. If western companies pull out you suddenly have several hundred million unemployed citizens. Most of the Chinese military is build on old soviet equipment and while it tries to modernize it will still be another 50 years until it will be able to fully catch up and keep to the west. At the moment the Chinese rely solely on large numbers

    Nobody intervened in Tibet for 2 big fat reasons: 1. There was a cold war and threat of nuclear war going on at the time.
    2. It was 5 years after WWII and most of the Western world was still in ruins at the time.
    Are americans beset by collective amnesia in the asia pacific of the last 30 years? Do they realise that the world has moved on from 1990?

  12. #112
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    It's the truth. The Chinese economy as it is today is propped up by western companies. If western companies pull out you suddenly have several hundred million unemployed citizens.
    I can't tell if the figure you're suggesting has any plausibility - i very much doubt it - but that doesn't really matter much. The relation between Western companies and China is at best a co-dependence, as Western companies have grown dangerously reliant on the vast Chinese export market and the low worker costs there. This goes so far that, as an example, Western companies actually give in to the demands of the Communist Party regarding product specifications (means China's ruling party has a direct influence on how your iPhone works). Those Western companies wouldn't simply "pull out" if anything happens other than all out war with NATO.
    The interdependence between China and the West goes even further than that, in that China is heavily backing the USD to keep Chinese export prizes low. AFAIK >25% of US foreign debt is Chinese. Nobody would do anything against this gigantic market, unless ww3 breaks out. Which means there is no way to effectively pressure China to discourage it from expanding it's influence in SE Asia. Because of China, the West is rapidly losing influence in Asia, but also in Africa for example, which means democracy is on the retreat. That's the real threat, not all out warfare.

    Most of the Chinese military is build on old soviet equipment and while it tries to modernize it will still be another 50 years until it will be able to fully catch up and keep to the west. At the moment the Chinese rely solely on large numbers
    50 years is deliriously hyperbolic, that is for sure i'm afraid. But again, this is beside the point.
    Last edited by swabian; October 19, 2019 at 11:46 PM.

  13. #113

    Default Re: No force can stop China: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    It's the truth. The Chinese economy as it is today is propped up by western companies. If western companies pull out you suddenly have several hundred million unemployed citizens. Most of the Chinese military is build on old soviet equipment and while it tries to modernize it will still be another 50 years until it will be able to fully catch up and keep to the west. At the moment the Chinese rely solely on large numbers
    This is wishful thinking. Western companies stand to lose hundreds of billions, if not trillions if they pull out of China. This is Trump logic, global trade and investment works both ways. You can't hurt China without hurting yourself, and China is now the world's second largest economy. China's military is also formidable and not a collection of Soviet scraps.

  14. #114
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    You can't hurt China without hurting yourself, and China is now the world's second largest economy.
    But they already are number one.
    I think it's more like this:

    1st place: China
    2nd place: EU
    3rd place: USA


    I'd much rather see the US on top, but that's not how it is.

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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    In PPP yes, nominally, no.

  16. #116
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    But they already are number one.
    I think it's more like this:

    1st place: China
    2nd place: EU
    3rd place: USA


    I'd much rather see the US on top, but that's not how it is.
    Already noted via PPP, and given its current state I'm not entirely sure the EU should count as one unit, drop out the UK and its not second even with PPP.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

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    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  17. #117
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    It's not a unit and it doesn't even want to be one.
    But we're all going to have to deal with that monster.

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    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    I'm sure the white nationalists in modern american academia would like to rewrite history so as to make it look like they were the progenitors of technology, but unfortunately for them, the evidence states otherwise. That's why your greek wheelbarrow is only a hypothesis, much like the aryan master race hypothesis.
    It a not a hypothesis, simple fact. Based on solid evidence from the records of a state that did not take making mistakes in public records lightly. In any case you raised the issue. Shall I say hay look China failed to invent the crane first or the steam engine, who thought of little round bits of metal as money first or you know the first cities? I did not start some tit for tat history challenge you did. Seems to me you have some kind of race based issues not myself. And you seem to dislike facts.

    This is what i hate about modern america; your leaders are so insecure about their place in the world that they need to invent foundation myths; at least China has the historical record to prove its claims. If America wants to be more like China, it needs less "race realism" and more pragmatism.
    Foundational myths? I missed when I suggested one I certainly was not citing any - just solid scholarship.

    Gordon Chang is living proof that an idiot and his money are soon parted
    He looks to be doing OK, did I suggest he was other than a poor analyst?

    I'm sure the mouthpieces in the western MSM are invested in the idea of "underperforming high speed rail lines etc" but the reality proves otherwise; i still remember the BS back in 2009 over China's "ghost cities" and when the proved to be BS, they simply moved on to the next BS story. Americans love to harp on about the free press and free thought but have proven to be as gullible and as brainwashed as north koreans, which i suppose is understandable since a race based caste society is emotionally invested in myths of its own superiority.
    The funny thing here is you harp on any and every fault in the US. I am surprised you find it so offensive anyone would to the same to China.

    Yet Navarro got in anyway, in the Shining City on the Hill, the example of Democracy set for everyone; did you know he made up an entire source in his books and when confronted about it, tried to explain it away as a harmless joke. Strange how that fictional source went on a racist diatribe against ethnic Chinese americans and how chinese food in america was a communist plot.
    Your point. Did I type a wide ranging defense of the man or suggest he was more or less an @ss... Again Trump won with a minority vote and is a man the Electors (according to Hamilton) should have rejected, and is only the 4th president to stand on the brink of Impeachment and the first to have people talking about the 25th amendment. You can need to stop ascribing to him or this administration picks the broad title of America.

    So strange that a few days after tearing up the treaty, the US then tested a medium range missile; now either the US scientists work that fast, or more likely, that they were working on treaty violating missiles throughout that period.
    Yes a whole brand new missile strait out of R and D system... nope. Just a Mk 41 VLS tube on flat bed firing a navy missile. Cheap. I'll admit and the intended message no doubt is we can churn these out like butter and festoon if allowed every place from Poland to to Japan with them in either mobile launchers or hardened caves... But again not malevolent secret project just waiting to violate the treaty. Honestly a rarity out of the pentagon. Not uber priced and over hyped wonder tech, but the threat of a reliable work a day threat that can be cheaply placed in large numbers. Add in the new independent anti ship tracking ability and theoretically you flood the the first island chain with endless amount of comparably cheap missiles delivered by any number of means. I assume the recent demonstration of sub launching anti ship missiles was hand in hand. so really the only missing piece is a notice to increase stockpiles by an order of magnitude to really impress.

    Sure, YOU don't care, because you're the beneficiary of actual racist white supremacy; yet come the day when true equality comes a-knockin' and you'll be expressing that infamous white fragility, as we're witnessing in the NBA/Blizzard scandal. Hell, the white supremacists are so triggered at being treated like equals that they're persecuting african americans who refuse to agree with them.
    NBA/Blizzard scandal scandal is just people forgetting business in the US is interested in the next quarter, and will blow in any political wind. I not quite sure what you harping on. So you think its cool a blizzard player can't voice support for protests in Hong Kong, what he objected to whaling by Japan, or nuclear testing by France?

    China's rise in the 90s-000s wasn't because of the US, it was IN SPITE of the US; the entire goal of the US was to ensure China remained a source of cheap labour for its corporations and that it would become just a bigger japan/taiwan/korea/HK.
    Um in the 90s none of those three were particularly a source of cheap labor for the US. Do brush up on history.

    Second if that were the case than the US would have kept China out of the WTO and twisting in the wind on yearly approval of most favored nation trading status. In that cse the only manufacturing moved thuiier would have the lowes cost and least capital intensive because the risk of revocation would keep significant capital investment too risky.

    Sorry, i know it's in vogue for americans to deny reality, but you actually have sitting US officials on more than one occasion declare a race war, a 'civilisational' war against China. You actually have white nationalists like Banon in influential positions in the Beltway.
    Bannon flamed out even with Trump, and realistically again minority president based on voter suppression and false populist message who added a loathsome character that would not have seen the light of day in say JEBs admin.

    We judge by actions, not stated intent, and actions betray actual intent.
    I'm pretty sure only Xi can use the royal we

    Americans are fortunate that the Chinese gov. censors the Chinese internet and keeps it away from the US internet; if it didn't, you'd have the entire US internet being taken over by Chinese nationalists with so much weaponised autism that americans would be forced to write chinese just to use the internet.
    OK that in no way reacts to anything I said

    Wang Dan is free to go home anytime, much as Edward Snowden is free to return to the US any time.
    False equivalency

    Btw, how is Chelsea Manning doing? Funny that Obama pardoned her and yet she's still in prison
    No. Commuted released and then held for contempt of court. A commutation or pardon is not a continuous get out of jail free card nor provides the right to not appear before a grand Jury.

    London hoped the war would rechannel irish sentiment against Germany the same way US elites are trying to use China as a bogeyman to distract its people from potential revolution, and you know it's coming.
    I have no, absoultly no bloody how you read the bit of history that way. Dealing with Irish independence was tabled for the duration. Nothing in your wiki says otherwise. Find me some private letters that show government official actualy were pro war because of Ireland and I will think you are not BS-ing. I am pretty sure that if tomorrow the Chinese government decided it would negotiate with protesters in Hong Kong about their demands and that process dragged on for weeks and then if some India boarder clash spun rapidly out of control into war those talks would be tabled for the duration.

    But anyhow, Chinese hypersonic missiles and stealth drones are a necessity in taming the aggressive american cultural and historic penchant for stealing land and genocide. I don't see Chinese or Russian bases (yet) in Mexico or Cuba or Venezuela, but there sure are plenty of american military assets near China and Russia. It makes sense for China to develop missiles that can bring the war back to the american people who, in a democracy, as just as culpable for the war crimes of their leaders.
    "historic penchant for stealing land and genocide" I know like Tibet.

    Russian bases (yet) in Mexico or Cuba or Venezuela
    Funny. Cuba...

    The Czar certainly has been making indication of reestablishing a Russian presence in Cuba, and possibly in Venezuela and of course Syria, why not if they can afford it. China has obviously been some what regionally focused (artificial islands much) but it predatory action in Sri lanka and its base in Djibouti signal something more than local goals. India perhaps should be worried. If you want to a world power you need bases all over. I see nothing different between the US/Russia or China. Except China is just starting, Russia is scrambling to recover what it had and the US did not loose thiers...

    I'm sure the americans on the other end of those weapons would be similarly underwhelmed; at the end of the day, weapons of war are meant to kill because they need to provide a deterrent against predatory nation states like the apartheid white supremacist united states.
    On the latter err OK I know it your thing and gotten worse... On the first nobody likes to be on the wrong end of a weapon. My question was again the type 055 does not impress. Not becuse of white supremacy but because its more or less the same thing the US builds and Europe and Russia at that class level and I think they are all stupid. So please read what I type. China is impressively modernizing its military but it seems to seduced by the same cult of MBA crew sizing and look look its wonder tech built on the last wonder tech based on a lot mumble mumble stuff that has never been put to the tested like every other modern navy.

    This is the sort of thinking that created military disasters like Dien Bien Phu and the fall of singpore, or for more american centric wars, the korean and vietnam wars.

    As a race based caste soceity, america's privileged white democraphic still finds it hard to believe that they could lose against those whom they believe to be racial inferiors.
    How did you parse that out?

    Was the same thinking that saw China declare victory after attacking Vietnam but failing to get to withdraw from Cambodia?

    Seeing as Korea ended up more or less where it started I pretty sure none of the great powers involved can say they succeeded, I guess except for Stalin since he ended up not spending much blood. Also interesting question suppose The Kaiser had a moment of real moral courage and clarity and told Austria to stuff it. No WW1, no WW2, do really think their would be a Dien Bien Phu? Fall of Singapore sure Japan scored against an overstretched enemy. But displayed a fair amount of its own (Asian?) arrogance rolling into a massively poorly planed and poorly executed Midway that cost it more than Singapore damaged the UK.

    You know, Conon, i'd hoped you'd a least be sensible enough to have a little empathy towards your fellow americans who are only guilty of the crime of practicing science whilst Chinese; instead, you merely re-affirm the apartheid toxic white supremacist culture of the united states.
    I am simply unclear what the you are talking about give me a link to Americans of Chinese back ground having problems in science. Or how Andrew Yang is not a candidate for President. Even though his signature policy is essentially a dead letter since the Dems have almost no hope of recovering the senate (same really for Bernie or Warren). I like all three but I would like to hear what they think they can really do not just their aspirational positions.

    It's really no wonder that so many americans are perfectly fine with their soldiers committing genocide and murder against coloured folks overseas.
    Example please.
    Last edited by conon394; October 20, 2019 at 10:03 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  19. #119

    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Foundational myths? I missed when I suggested one I certainly was not citing any - just solid scholarship.
    The foundation myth is extremely obvious when you see the disconnect between those in the US who want to make a connection between the US and ancient rome and Greece and yet discriminate against those who are not WASP or aryan enough; mediterraneans such as those Italians and Greeks are not considered WASP enough else wise you wouldn't have racial epithets against greeks and italians back in the 50s and before.

    In China you don't have this problem because China has first and foremost been a civilisation, rather than an exclusionary race based caste system which the modern US is.

    He looks to be doing OK, did I suggest he was other than a poor analyst?
    "A fool and his money are soon parted" is obviously referring to the fool americans who bought his book, are still buying his books and allowing themselves to be conned by this charlatan because he tells them what they want to hear.

    The funny thing here is you harp on any and every fault in the US. I am surprised you find it so offensive anyone would to the same to China.
    China's not the one pointing fingers at the world trying to act like its doesn't stink; i have respect for that much at least. I have no respect for prancing rascals who fancy themselves the new roman empire yet somehow missed the bit about debauchery bringing down roman society.

    Your point. Did I type a wide ranging defense of the man or suggest he was more or less an @ss... Again Trump won with a minority vote and is a man the Electors (according to Hamilton) should have rejected, and is only the 4th president to stand on the brink of Impeachment and the first to have people talking about the 25th amendment. You can need to stop ascribing to him or this administration picks the broad title of America.
    Point is that this is the system that your government pushes onto other peoples of the world; that it tries to use its so called tech achievements as propaganda to get foreign nations to follow the Washington Consensus, yet when the time came for Washington to practice what it preaches, it did the exact opposite eg GFC 2008.

    Trump winning with a minority of votes/plurality of votes simply shows the race based gerrymandering nature of US politics; the political votes and voices of heavily black/coloured districts are marginalised so as to magnify the voting power of the white anglo american voice (at this point german americans have been culturally exterminated into becoming anglo america)

    Yes a whole brand new missile strait out of R and D system... nope. Just a Mk 41 VLS tube on flat bed firing a navy missile. Cheap. I'll admit and the intended message no doubt is we can churn these out like butter and festoon if allowed every place from Poland to to Japan with them in either mobile launchers or hardened caves... But again not malevolent secret project just waiting to violate the treaty. Honestly a rarity out of the pentagon. Not uber priced and over hyped wonder tech, but the threat of a reliable work a day threat that can be cheaply placed in large numbers. Add in the new independent anti ship tracking ability and theoretically you flood the the first island chain with endless amount of comparably cheap missiles delivered by any number of means. I assume the recent demonstration of sub launching anti ship missiles was hand in hand. so really the only missing piece is a notice to increase stockpiles by an order of magnitude to really impress.
    Ironic now that the Pentagon is trying to steal Chinese intellectual property in military strategy; large numbers of missiles, HGVs, electronic warfare and drones are the theme of Chinese revolution in military affairs

    NBA/Blizzard scandal scandal is just people forgetting business in the US is interested in the next quarter, and will blow in any political wind. I not quite sure what you harping on. So you think its cool a blizzard player can't voice support for protests in Hong Kong, what he objected to whaling by Japan, or nuclear testing by France?
    i think white americans shouldn't be hypocritical if they want to tout themselves as the Shining City on the Hill; condemning black americans for taking a knee to protest the actual continuing genocide against african americans whilst wanting to "take politics out of sport" and yet turning around to condemn any other black americans or other americans who refuse to tow the USG line on foreign policy eg the ostracism and pillorying of NBA figures for wanting to be apolitical on China- a foreign nation, as opposed to domestic issues in the home nation.

    Um in the 90s none of those three were particularly a source of cheap labor for the US. Do brush up on history.
    You're splitting hairs to try to get a win; sorry, pal; even up until the 90s, taiwan was still a source of some cheap manufacturing, hence the "made in taiwan" jokes of the 90s that i still remember.

    Second if that were the case than the US would have kept China out of the WTO and twisting in the wind on yearly approval of most favored nation trading status. In that cse the only manufacturing moved thuiier would have the lowes cost and least capital intensive because the risk of revocation would keep significant capital investment too risky
    .

    Bollocks; the US wanted China in the WTO to get access to China's market; it was the hope in the 90s and 2000s that economic liberalism would lead to a collapse of the Chinese government ala the soviet union and then the US could return to a Chiang era China where the Chinese were slaves to the american state. The arrogance of the US was that they believed that they would continue holding tech superiority and could profit downstream from the royalties off the patents that China would need for its industries, and that if China proved troublesome, then the US could shut off the patent flow as well as other sources of capital and choke off China's economy.

    Which is what the current USG attempted to do, only to be bested by a humble chinese tech company: Huawei.

    Incidentally, let's take a quick break and have a look at China's economy now that it is "slowing down" according to US propagandists:



    Bannon flamed out even with Trump, and realistically again minority president based on voter suppression and false populist message who added a loathsome character that would not have seen the light of day in say JEBs admin.
    So how does the explain Bannon's continued influence in US politics? That Bannon's worldview is being practiced by the USG?

    It's evident that the US under its white majority, fearing the "browning of america" have decided to opt for full nazism as opposed to fascism in an effort tot shore up white privilege.

    No. Commuted released and then held for contempt of court. A commutation or pardon is not a continuous get out of jail free card nor provides the right to not appear before a grand Jury.
    black cat, white cat; it's all the same; legalese jargon to persecute a political prisoner and to silence potential whistleblowers; that's the thing about white americans, employing doublethink appears to be a cultural trait. Abusing human rights is fine so long as there's a piece of paper allowing for it, eg PRISM and FISA courts rubber stamping mass surveillance.

    I have no, absoultly no bloody how you read the bit of history that way. Dealing with Irish independence was tabled for the duration. Nothing in your wiki says otherwise. Find me some private letters that show government official actualy were pro war because of Ireland and I will think you are not BS-ing. I am pretty sure that if tomorrow the Chinese government decided it would negotiate with protesters in Hong Kong about their demands and that process dragged on for weeks and then if some India boarder clash spun rapidly out of control into war those talks would be tabled for the duration.
    In the case of the irish, the trend was for independence sooner rather than later; was the rush to war because of the irish question? No, but the war solved the immediacy of the irish problem and diverted attention elsewhere, much as the white supremacist USG wants a race war to prevent revolution at home. Actual apartheid south africa could've gone down that route as well, even looked into getting a nuclear weapon. White supremacists and nuclear weapons should never go together, like al qaeda and nuclear weapons.

    "historic penchant for stealing land and genocide" I know like Tibet.
    Funny how there are still tibetan people with a tibetan culture....now whatever happened to the Seneca, the Cherokee, the Iroquois, the Huron, the Sioux etc etc etc?

    It's like genocide is fine once white people make a move about how sad it made them feel about it, eg all the vietnam era movies of the 80s.


    Funny. Cuba...

    The Czar certainly has been making indication of reestablishing a Russian presence in Cuba, and possibly in Venezuela and of course Syria, why not if they can afford it. China has obviously been some what regionally focused (artificial islands much) but it predatory action in Sri lanka and its base in Djibouti signal something more than local goals. India perhaps should be worried. If you want to a world power you need bases all over. I see nothing different between the US/Russia or China. Except China is just starting, Russia is scrambling to recover what it had and the US did not loose thiers...
    The US will see Chinese and Russian bases in the western hemisphere before the end of this century, and you can thank your leaders for making their own citizens prime targets for Chinese/Russian weapons

    On the latter err OK I know it your thing and gotten worse... On the first nobody likes to be on the wrong end of a weapon. My question was again the type 055 does not impress. Not becuse of white supremacy but because its more or less the same thing the US builds and Europe and Russia at that class level and I think they are all stupid. So please read what I type. China is impressively modernizing its military but it seems to seduced by the same cult of MBA crew sizing and look look its wonder tech built on the last wonder tech based on a lot mumble mumble stuff that has never been put to the tested like every other modern navy.
    Should also note that China doesn't need global coverage the way the USNavy requires; China only needs the Asia Pacific and the BRI nodes



    Was the same thinking that saw China declare victory after attacking Vietnam but failing to get to withdraw from Cambodia?
    Now you're rewriting history to suit your needs; China accomplished its goals in the sino-viet war, vietnam did not.
    Secondly China invaded vietnam as a personal favour to the US President as well, look at Kissinger's memoirs.

    Seeing as Korea ended up more or less where it started I pretty sure none of the great powers involved can say they succeeded, I guess except for Stalin since he ended up not spending much blood. Also interesting question suppose The Kaiser had a moment of real moral courage and clarity and told Austria to stuff it. No WW1, no WW2, do really think their would be a Dien Bien Phu? Fall of Singapore sure Japan scored against an overstretched enemy. But displayed a fair amount of its own (Asian?) arrogance rolling into a massively poorly planed and poorly executed Midway that cost it more than Singapore damaged the UK.
    Japan's main victims were Asians.

    On Korea, MacArthur was losing so badly he wanted to go full hitler and use nukes on China and even went to the american public to get their support; thankfully truman was more humane than white supremacist- a shocking heresy in 50s america- but there you go.


    I am simply unclear what the you are talking about give me a link to Americans of Chinese back ground having problems in science. Or how Andrew Yang is not a candidate for President. Even though his signature policy is essentially a dead letter since the Dems have almost no hope of recovering the senate (same really for Bernie or Warren). I like all three but I would like to hear what they think they can really do not just their aspirational positions.
    Go onto Andrew Yang's discussions fora and see how the white dominated MSM marginalises him; how the MSNBC for instance refused to allow him to be displayed on their charts; how CNN's town hall silenced his mic...and the list goes on and on.

    This is what an apartheid white supremacist society looks like.

    Yang has succeeded thus far, in spite of all these establishment obstacles. His message resonates that well with the american people.

  20. #120
    Legio_Italica's Avatar Lost in Limbo
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    Default Re: ‘No force can stop China’: Beijing shows off HYPERSONIC missiles & STEALTH drones at 70th National Day parade

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    The foundation myth is extremely obvious when you see the disconnect between those in the US who want to make a connection between the US and ancient rome and Greece and yet discriminate against those who are not WASP or aryan enough; mediterraneans such as those Italians and Greeks are not considered WASP enough else wise you wouldn't have racial epithets against greeks and italians back in the 50s and before.

    In China you don't have this problem because China has first and foremost been a civilisation, rather than an exclusionary race based caste system which the modern US is.
    This simply isn’t true. All modern nation states are the product of social engineering. Modern China is no exception. Mao’s great leap forward and subsequent cultural revolution deliberately exterminated traditional Chinese culture to create the Politburo’s conception of the “One China” ethos, and to root out his political enemies. The CCP is the mass murderer of Chinese people, history and culture; it cannot use its victim to claim imperial legitimacy, and it must not spread or gain power, if at all possible. The CCP even tried to distance itself from its own policies in an effort to polish its image during the capitalist reforms of the 80s and 90s.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Olds

    Your portrayal of racism as a uniquely American/western or non-Chinese phenomenon, upon which much of your praise for the Chinese government seems to rely, is just another whataboutist CCP talking point. De facto and de jure discrimination by the Han ethnic majority against minority groups is as old as China and as prevalent as Jim Crow. Current Chinese law does not even define racial discrimination or explicitly protect ethnic minorities. No racism, no need for either, right? Well, explicit legal and social discrimination against Uyghurs is commonplace, for example, in addition to the camps and ethnic cleansing:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...d-apply/21071/

    https://www.economist.com/china/2015...urself-at-home

    https://www.aljazeera.com/focus/2009...931298561.html

    Then of course there’s stuff like this:

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...hinese-tv-gala

    https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/26/asia/africans-leaving-guangzhou-china/index.html

    I’m sure you’ll have some incoherent whataboutist response judging by your post history on the topic, but I thought it necessary to correct the record on at least this point, given it seems to form a significant portion of the basis for your propaganda.

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