Proposal to give TWC back its Balls

[Belisarius]

I propose that the following occurs -

- The old staff ranks are restored.

- The moderator position becomes a Curia elected position.

- We look into the possibility of Hex members being ratified or even elected.

[Professor420]

I think this discussion can be saved for a later time, and proposed with some more thought.

[gigagaia]

A lot of stuff needs to be sorted out...
First of all, our site's owner's (and mine!) accounts need to be sorted in some way or another.
Then all the little technical things that may have arised over the past few days should be sorted...
Finally I think we will start looking at structures of power etc...

[Silver Guard]

I'll support this proposal fully (as in completely and utterly, with all my soul ect ect) once it is put in a more 'Spiffanised' form. As such, a little prudence is needed.

[Garbarsardar]

My thoughts are along the same lines Bel (probably with the addition of a Tribounos plebis, elected Curator and pro-C and such).

However and since there is no ghost over the TWC at the moment I think that people like you, giga, prof and WBK should get together with Spiff and anyone else that wants and create a basis for a stable Syntagma.

Give it some time, as it seems this new Syntagma is going to last for a very long time...

[wilpuri]

I like this.

I will strive to be more active in the Curia from now on. Viva la libertad.

[Tom Paine]

Agreed. The Curia needs some balls, but it needs some formal balls, if you understand what I mean. This needs to be formal and, temporarily at least, can wait. I beleive there is currently a draft constitution written by the Old Hex and the Owner of the Site; this will presumably be ratified by all members, or at least the Curia members, and then put into practice, awaiting amendments.

[Oldgamer]

I will help in this effort to the fullest extent that I can. Please feel free to PM or email me whenever everyone is ready to start working. And please, let's make sure that this effort doesn't end in another tragic comedy, three months hence ...

[imb39]

Agreed. The Curia needs some balls, but it needs some formal balls, if you understand what I mean. This needs to be formal and, temporarily at least, can wait. I beleive there is currently a draft constitution written by the Old Hex and the Owner of the Site; this will presumably be ratified by all members, or at least the Curia members, and then put into practice, awaiting amendments.

There are amny competing Syntagmas out there - we really must move away from this. We are now in the Medieval time period. Little is set in stone

[Lusted]

I have different ideas on how to give TWC its balls back as can be read in the egalitarian thread in Q&S.

[imb39]

I wish to make one thing clear. I do not think is is possible to have a full democracy here. Moderator elections are a possibility, if the correct mechanism can be decided.

I have even heard of the idea floated for one member of Hex to be voted into by the Curia. Again this is a possbility.

I am sorry if this shatters a lot of ideas and makes a demon of me, but that's how it stands atm. There is so much to develop. to focus on elections and elections alone is simply foolish. The site is yours to develop.

In times of crisis, elections are often the last to be resolved. Infrastructure comes first. Is anyone thinking of the modding community and their needs?
Is anyone thinking of the members and their needs?

[Lusted]

I agree imb, i also believe the mod community nees to be though of more, and become more important to the site, and involved more in the Curia as it is an integral part of the site.

[Belisarius]

Something similar to the Post Decimvirate reform is what I would consider as the ideal setup and balance for TWC. With obvious editing and adaptations to suit the current staff setup.


The first move from the Curia end should be the ranks, time to change them back and flex some muscle in that respect.

[Perikles]

This is how I think and suppose the structure of TWC will be in the interim:

After we have fully broken away from ON TWC can have its balls back.

[the Black Prince]

now is not the time for this.
Surely the first goal for the staff must be to get TWC back on its feet again, and anything anything that distracts them from this task benefit no one.

Second, the biggest mistake the Curia ever made was joyfully wading into the power Sulla gave us of electing moderators. It turned our attention aware from the real issues, was never a purpose of the Curia, and caused some of the worst grievances experienced on these forums.

The curia should have full control over all ranks bar moderator and administrator positions, but i think electing moderators is a decision that should not be taken lightly, and should only come about as the result of a great deal of discussion between all interested parties, not merely a select few. And it should not happen soon, it should not be rushed, and the reason for that is, the process for it, should one be decided needs to be absolutely ironclad and totally perfect from everyones viewpoint, so that we do not have the sucession of champion prize fights between staff and curia that so marred previous administrations.

The curias role was advisory. IS advisory.
As a citizen of our site to have a say in how the site is run. Moderators shouldn't make those decisions, they should moderate and maintain order. But let the Curia be the policy shop for the community, and by that i mean the whole community, not just the parts that write long posts.

Electing moderators was not the Curias greatest strength, nor its greatest role, nor the epitome of its power. Guiding the community is.

We did not seek, nor did we provoke an assault upon our freedom. We did not expect nor did we invite a confrontation with evil. Yet the true measure of a peoples strength is how they rise to master that moment when it does occur. Everytime we think we have measured our capacity to meet a challenge we look up and we are reminded that that capacity may well be limitless.

This is a time for Community Heroes.
We will do what is hard, and we will achieve what is great.
This is a time for Community Heroes, and we reach for the stars

[Belisarius]

now is not the time for this.
Surely the first goal for the staff must be to get TWC back on its feet again, and anything anything that distracts them from this task benefit no one.

TWC is already on its feet. Content is back and the site is functioning with a full staff. Any other issues we have no say on and cant really do anything about.

Second, the biggest mistake the Curia ever made was joyfully wading into the power Sulla gave us of electing moderators. It turned our attention aware from the real issues, was never a purpose of the Curia, and caused some of the worst grievances experienced on these forums.

It was never a mistake to accept the powers, mistakes were made by Ogres.net and by the administration. The Curia was partly to blame, but without Ogres.net I doubt that any of what happened before will be a problem.

The curia should have full control over all ranks bar moderator and administrator positions, but i think electing moderators is a decision that should not be taken lightly, and should only come about as the result of a great deal of discussion between all interested parties, not merely a select few. And it should not happen soon, it should not be rushed, and the reason for that is, the process for it, should one be decided needs to be absolutely ironclad and totally perfect from everyones viewpoint, so that we do not have the sucession of champion prize fights between staff and curia that so marred previous administrations.

There is no case against elected moderators, all elected moderators were good moderators. The worst moderator we had was appointed and only barely won his ratification. Indeed the Curia should have control over all ranks barring administration, but I still am of the opinion that electing mods is possible and good for ths new age where we are no longer at the mercy of people who do not know us.

The curias role was advisory. IS advisory.
As a citizen of our site to have a say in how the site is run. Moderators shouldn't make those decisions, they should moderate and maintain order. But let the Curia be the policy shop for the community, and by that i mean the whole community, not just the parts that write long posts.

Obviously a citizen should have no individual power over a moderator. But after a year of elections there is not one example of this happening. Also, the curia cannoy have say on all site policy. The modding community and TW community mostly want to stay out of what we do here.

Electing moderators was not the Curias greatest strength, nor its greatest role, nor the epitome of its power. Guiding the community is.

I agree and disagree. ELecting moderators was one of the curias stregnths, it never guided the community so I would not say that that was its greatest strength. Its ability to do what it did over the past few days is its greatest stregnth, divided they stood and united they fell and fought. etc.

We did not seek, nor did we provoke an assault upon our freedom. We did not expect nor did we invite a confrontation with evil. Yet the true measure of a peoples strength is how they rise to master that moment when it does occur. Everytime we think we have measured our capacity to meet a challenge we look up and we are reminded that that capacity may well be limitless.

Point being? Kinda goes against your sentiment.

This is a time for Community Heroes.
We will do what is hard, and we will achieve what is great.
This is a time for Community Heroes, and we reach for the stars

[the Black Prince]

the Curias adversarial atitude hardly helped given an ON belief that they could do what the wanted and screw everyone else


i do not deny that the elected moderators were good at their jobs. thats not to say those who didn't get elected might not have been better. Electing Mods may indeed be possible, but its a sensitive issue that would require a lot of debate and discussion before a workable and acceptable format could be created.
The curia should work towards other goals first and get those established.

Obviously a citizen should have no individual power over a moderator. But after a year of elections there is not one example of this happening. Also, the curia cannoy have say on all site policy. The modding community and TW community mostly want to stay out of what we do here.

The Curia can and should have a say over all areas. What was the Council of War if not made of the Curia? There's a fair number of people active in the Curia who focus on th modding side of things, but i have always felt we should stop distinquising between those who contribute to the CC, and those who do not. its absurd. A citizen should be a citizen, and all are equal. Recognition is recognition, contribution is contribution, and all are equal.

If the modding community wants to stay out, then thats an issue that should be addressed, rather than ignore the modding community. Input by the Curia could improve the modding areas of the community, something that would benefit all modders, but its not likely to happen if modders do not come here, and put things on the table and say what they'd like to see.

Isolating the modding community and keeping it seperate from everything else, and ignored by the Curia is like the segrregation and isolationist attitudes of some muslim communities in the UK, and it does no one any good, least of all the modders.

it never guided the community so I would not say that that was its greatest strength

The curias first role was never electing mods. What do you think the Curia did before Sulla gave it that power? sit around drinking champagne and the blood of "dot com"ers

[Sétanta]

The Curia should have full control over all ranks of the forum. Not the Adminstrators, of course, but electing Moderators should definitly be a part of this. If we are to be a guiding light to the community, we need to be able to control how we feel it is moderated. Curially trusted Moderators is perhaps one of the most important things the forum can have. If there is anger and no trust between the two branches then the forum cannot work.

I see it like this. The Moderators are the Police Force and Military of TWC. The Curia is the internal affairs legislative body. The two need to cooperate, and since all moderators come from the Curia initially, they should be ratified or voted on as often as possible (preferably every time). But there needs to be balance. The Curia needs to not get bogged down in Staff politics, and the Moderators need to have two distinct roles, a police officer AND a Citizen. We don't want Staff to turn into the RUC, do we?

Hexagon of course, oversee's this, attempting to insure that the balance is just right. They can't get too involved though, either. They are the foreign policy part of the equation and need to be able to focus on their technical jobs without looking over their shoulders for Curia vs. Staff fights.

At the end of the rant, the only way I can see this balance happening is if their is a clear heirarchy. Curia-Staff-Hex. THe Curia should elect Moderators into staff they trust, and in turn Hex members are promoted from inside Staff. This will insure that people don't forget their place, and to what their loyalties lie (ultimatly TWC). It will insure that people can get along, because a democratic system insures that the majority can get what needs to be done, done. It will also insure that Hex can do what it needs to do, and so prevent the Democracy vs. Infrastructure problem imb talked about. If that works, then the forum is perfect. IF that works, the Curia can influence the site to the best of its (very high) abilities and standards, Staff can moderate and keep the forum safe and Hex can be administrators, teachers and Citizens at the same time.

[Rolanbek]

Wait.

Stability first, all else to follow.

R

[gigagaia]

There is no case against elected moderators, all elected moderators were good moderators. The worst moderator we had was appointed and only barely won his ratification. Indeed the Curia should have control over all ranks barring administration, but I still am of the opinion that electing mods is possible and good for ths new age where we are no longer at the mercy of people who do not know us.

I was elected



As for the election of moderators, I think that there will be room for dicussion over that. Remember all, that this site will hopfully, with the grace of Imb of course, be a site for the commiunity with heavy community involvement in its running in many areas. Hopefully we can figure out where we want to go with all of this..