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Thread: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

  1. #441
    Katsumoto's Avatar Quae est infernum es
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    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Love Mountain View Post
    Sondland may have committed perjury.
    Seems he forgot to mention a few details first time round.

    Sondland Updates Impeachment Testimony, Describing Ukraine Quid Pro Quo

    WASHINGTON — A critical witness in the impeachment inquiry offered Congress substantial new testimony this week, revealing that he told a top Ukrainian official that the country likely would not receive American military aid unless it publicly committed to investigations President Trump wanted.

    The disclosure from Gordon D. Sondland, the United States ambassador to the European Union, in four new pages of sworn testimony released on Tuesday, confirmed his involvement in essentially laying out a quid pro quo to Ukraine that he had previously not acknowledged.

    The testimony offered several major new details beyond the account he gave the inquiry in a 10-hour interview last month. Mr. Sondland provided a more robust description of his own role in alerting the Ukrainians that they needed to go along with investigative requests being demanded by the president’s personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani. By early September, Mr. Sondland said, he had become convinced that military aid and a White House meeting were conditioned on Ukraine committing to those investigations.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/05/u...ent-trump.html
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  2. #442
    B. W.'s Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumoto View Post
    Seems he forgot to mention a few details first time round.



    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/05/u...ent-trump.html
    I wonder why the Times didn't mention that the "whistle Blower" had ties to the Russian Hoax perps?

  3. #443
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    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    This chasing the whistle-blower stuff is laughably dumb even for Republicans. Like everyone's over here listening to the testimonies that have already corroborated the whistle-blower's initial report, while Republicans screech about him maybe being a Democrat (shock horror). I don't know if it's full-on self-delusion or just a regular lack of critical thinking skills. Imagine Republicans way back trying to argue the Nixon impeachment was illegitimate because the security guard who called in the break-in at Watergate donated to Kennedy once.
    "I pray Heaven to bestow the best of blessings on this house and all that shall hereafter inhabit it. May none but honest and wise men ever rule under this roof."
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  4. #444
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    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumoto View Post
    This chasing the whistle-blower stuff is laughably dumb even for Republicans. Like everyone's over here listening to the testimonies that have already corroborated the whistle-blower's initial report, while Republicans screech about him maybe being a Democrat (shock horror). I don't know if it's full-on self-delusion or just a regular lack of critical thinking skills. Imagine Republicans way back trying to argue the Nixon impeachment was illegitimate because the security guard who called in the break-in at Watergate donated to Kennedy once.
    Nixon wasn't involved in the Watergate break in. What got him canned was trying to cover it up after he found out what happened.

    In this case there is no evidence of any quid pro quo arrangement. Taylor, would did not hear the phone call, stated specifically that the Ukrainians were unaware that the military aid shipments had been held up at the time of the phone call. They only found out later; meaning a quid pro quo would have been impossible.

    The "whistle blower" presented third hand evidence and is on record of actively working against the Trump campaign and was involved in helping Biden "transfer" the billion dollars to Ukraine.

    Vindman, the supposed source for the leak, is a strident anti-Trumper and was reprimanded by his commanding Officer for fraternizing with Russian officers and furthermore, didn't even hear the phone call.

    The whole thing is just another sham by Democrats.

  5. #445
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    So? There’s been two impeachment trials against Presidents in the history of the US. One with polls. You’re not in a position to draw patterns.
    The Blomberg agrees with you, as they say "The Clinton example doesn’t apply in Trump's case".I'm not sure about that.
    Americans divided
    The public, by a 51% to 43% margin, said in the poll that by investigating Trump, congressional Democrats are mainly interested in hurting him politically rather than in upholding the Constitution.
    I'm saying that the impeachment is a bad strategy to win an election.Nancy Pelosi hesitated on impeachment. In fact, Republicans will never join democrats condemning Trump.
    And let's try to avoid hypocrisy. Joe Biden, as Vice President of the US, did exactly the same thing and even bragged about it.
    Last edited by Ludicus; November 06, 2019 at 06:19 PM.
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  6. #446

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Joe Biden, as Vice President of the US, did exactly the same thing and even bragged about it.
    Please clarify what you mean by this. I’m sure you don’t mean what I think you do.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  7. #447

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post

    Vindman, the supposed source for the leak, is a strident anti-Trumper and was reprimanded by his commanding Officer for fraternizing with Russian officers and furthermore, didn't even hear the phone call.
    Even if true, would that mean that only pro-Trump people are credible witnesses? Would we have to immediately throw out your testimony or any physical evidence you present against Biden/Clinton/Obama based on your personal feelings, even if you caught them eating a baby in the pizza sex dungeon?
    Last edited by Coughdrop addict; November 06, 2019 at 10:18 PM.

  8. #448

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    The Blomberg agrees with you, as they say "The Clinton example doesn’t apply in Trump's case".I'm not sure about that.
    Americans divided

    I'm saying that the impeachment is a bad strategy to win an election.Nancy Pelosi hesitated on impeachment. In fact, Republicans will never join democrats condemning Trump.
    And let's try to avoid hypocrisy. Joe Biden, as Vice President of the US, did exactly the same thing and even bragged about it.
    I’m saying the House impeaches when it wants to. The Senate tries when it wants to. Yes, the Senate doesn’t even bother trying every charge. Just the ones it wants to. This has happened so few times in American history much less to Presidents that you have no right to draw patterns with American opinion.
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  9. #449
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    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    Even if true, would that mean that only pro-Trump people are credible witnesses? Would we have to immediately throw out your testimony or any physical evidence you present against Biden/Clinton/Obama based on your personal feelings, even if you caught them eating a baby in the pizza sex dungeon?
    You're blinded by your indoctrination. First of all it is true. Second, it doesn't matter if someone is pro-Trump or anti-Trump as long as they are acting ethically. Therein lies the problem.

    Vindman, as a national security adviser, had nothing to do with a policy discussion between Trump and a foreign president and yet he went to the CIA "whistle blower" whom he knew was a staunch anti-Trumper and leaked hearsay information in a direct attempt to undermine the President; not to mention that both men had secret meetings with House Security Committee Chairman Adam Schiff. I understand your question, but it doesn't hold up in lieu of the facts.

    As far as Taylor, if you read the transcript, his opinion was formed by reading the New York Times, and he admitted that he had no direct source to information about the phone call.

    If your slanted view were to be correct, then every Republican would have tried to secretly undermine Obama's Presidency at every opportunity. That didn't happen. There were Republicans working at the Obama White House and they didn't engage in the sort of behavior we're seeing here.

  10. #450
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    Please clarify what you mean by this. I’m sure you don’t mean what I think you do.
    In my opinion,there is a difference between the idiotic Trump and Joe Biden:
    For one reason or another, Trump tried - and failed - to blackmail Ukraine. As Vice President of the US, Biden succeeded in blackmailing Ukraine.
    --
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    I’m saying the House impeaches when it wants to.
    We know that. Senate impeachment -the final decision- is highly improbable. The Leader of the Senate McConnell claims Senate trial "would not lead to a removal" of Trump if held today.
    Or tomorrow, I dare to say...
    Last edited by Ludicus; November 07, 2019 at 12:55 PM.
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
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  11. #451

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    As Vice President of the US, Biden succeeded in blackmailing Ukraine.
    Do you have a source for this assertion?
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  12. #452

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    In this case there is no evidence of any quid pro quo arrangement. Taylor, would did not hear the phone call, stated specifically that the Ukrainians were unaware that the military aid shipments had been held up at the time of the phone call. They only found out later; meaning a quid pro quo would have been impossible.
    So, when Trump's chief of staff Mick Mulvaney basically admitted that there was a quid pro quo arrangement, was he lying?
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  13. #453
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    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    deleted double post.
    Last edited by B. W.; November 08, 2019 at 10:34 AM.

  14. #454
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    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    So, when Trump's chief of staff Mick Mulvaney basically admitted that there was a quid pro quo arrangement, was he lying?
    Mulvaney was referring to the fact that essentially all US foreign policy is based on a quid pro quo arrangement and always has been. It's obvious that you are in the dark about how foreign policy is conducted.

    Meanwhile, another one of Schiff's "star" witnesses has been caught lying:

    https://www.americanthinker.com/blog...nder_oath.html

  15. #455

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    Mulvaney was referring to the fact that essentially all US foreign policy is based on a quid pro quo arrangement and always has been. It's obvious that you are in the dark about how foreign policy is conducted.
    In one post, you claim that there is no evidence of quid pro quo, and in this one you claim that all such conduct is quid pro quo. How do you manage to contradict yourself so fundamentally in the same page?
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  16. #456
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    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    Do you have a source for this assertion?
    The well know video. https://youtu.be/Q0_AqpdwqK4
    It's a fact. Whatever the reason, Biden forced/blackmailed an independent country, Ukraine, to fire prosecutor for aid money: "If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money"
    --
    It seems that according to the transcript of Trump call, Trump tried to blackmail Ukraine. The President of Ukraine denies Trump tried to blackmail him. Conclusion: The President of Ukraine is a liar.
    Last edited by Ludicus; November 08, 2019 at 11:56 AM.
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
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  17. #457
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    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    In one post, you claim that there is no evidence of quid pro quo, and in this one you claim that all such conduct is quid pro quo. How do you manage to contradict yourself so fundamentally in the same page?
    There is no fundamental contradiction. Mulvaney wasn't referring to the phone call. He was referring to how international policy is conducted.

  18. #458

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    There is no fundamental contradiction. Mulvaney wasn't referring to the phone call. He was referring to how international policy is conducted.
    Saying that there is no evidence of quid pro quo and that all conduct is quid pro quo is an obvious contradiction. You can't have those two exist simultaneously in the same reality.



    Around 3:22, a journalist points out that what Mulvaney just described was quid pro quo and Mulvaney confirms. Mulvaney clearly indicates that the demand for investigation for the Democrats was part of the reason he withhold funding to Ukraine earlier there as well (2:25).

    So, yeah, was he lying?
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  19. #459

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    Do you have a source for this assertion?
    Biden himself bragged about it.

  20. #460

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    The well know video. https://youtu.be/Q0_AqpdwqK4
    It's a fact. Whatever the reason, Biden forced/blackmailed an independent country, Ukraine, to fire prosecutor for aid money: "If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money"
    That claim was debunked before it was even concocted, as discussed earlier in the thread.
    “Shokin was fired,” Kaleniuk observed, “because he failed to do investigations of corruption and economic crimes of President Yanukovych and his close associates, including Zlochevsky, and basically it was the big demand within society in Ukraine, including our organization and many other organizations, to get rid of this guy.” By getting Shokin removed, Biden in fact made it more rather than less likely that the oligarch who employed his son would be subject to prosecution for corruption.

    “What I’m pissed off about,” Kaleniuk said, “is that Shokin, who was totally corrupt, who undermined the reform of prosecution, and reformers, and who didn’t want to investigate Zlochevsky, now appears in the New York Times as the hero who wanted to investigate Zlochevsky and Burisma and who suffered because Joe Biden demanded to dismiss him because of his willingness to investigate Burisma — which is absolute nonsense.”

    As Andrew Kramer explained in the New York Times when Shokin was finally dismissed in 2016, Biden had acted as the point man for a coordinated international effort

    https://theintercept.com/2019/05/10/...reformer-says/
    The voters haven’t fallen for it, so I don’t know why you insist anyone should, especially as some function of impeachment.
    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; November 08, 2019 at 05:48 PM.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

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