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Thread: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

  1. #1021

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by tgoodenow View Post
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/04/polit...oll/index.html

    Looks like the House Democrat managers did a great job convincing the people.
    This shows his weakness more than anything. With this economy and no major foreign policy disasters, any other president would be at 55% approval right now. Trump can't even get to majority approval and trails Biden by 4-9 points in most polls. He's not in good place at all.

    As for impeachment, a solid majority of Americans now believe Trump abused his power, and a smaller majority favor removing him from office. Even if Trump isn't removed by the Senate, impeachment has more than served its purpose. All in all, it was a smart move.

    4 Reasons Impeachment Was Worth It
    Last edited by Prodromos; February 04, 2020 at 06:46 PM.
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  2. #1022

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    This shows his weakness more than anything. With this economy and no major foreign policy disasters, any other president would be at 55% approval right now. Trump can't even get to majority approval and trails Biden by 4-9 points in most polls. He's not in good place at all.
    Funny. A month ago, every democrat was screeching how Trump drives the country to war with Iran. Now you claim there were no major foreign policy disasters. By the way, one of reasons for the economic development is Trump's policy of deregulation and opening up natural reserves to exploitation, which benefits the large corporations, and this in turn affects stock market.

    Maybe it's time to give credit where it's due...

  3. #1023
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Yes indeed. The Perso-Arabic oil countries should be ashamed. I cannot wait until the basis of their wealth is obsolete.

  4. #1024

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Sar1n View Post
    Funny. A month ago, every democrat was screeching how Trump drives the country to war with Iran. Now you claim there were no major foreign policy disasters. By the way, one of reasons for the economic development is Trump's policy of deregulation and opening up natural reserves to exploitation, which benefits the large corporations, and this in turn affects stock market.

    Maybe it's time to give credit where it's due...
    I’m pretty sure Podromos isn’t a Democrat.
    —————————
    Solid closing arguments from the House. I spoilered the dramatic summary:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    In light of the defense’s case that “abuse of power and obstruction of Congress are outside the range of impeachable offenses,” and the GOP Senate’s acknowledgement that they consider the impeachment charges to be true, this bit was especially poignant:

    "History will not be kind to Donald Trump. If you find that the House has proved its case and still vote to acquit, your name will be tied to his with a cord of steel and for all of history. But if you find the courage to stand up to him ... your place will be among the Davids who took on Goliath."

    Only criticism I have of it is that Democrats always beg Republicans to be less corrupt and do the right thing for a change, instead of calling a spade a spade. But, points for trying, I guess.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  5. #1025
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    What's the point of taking the high ground for so long when you can't use it to fling at your enemies when you need to?

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  6. #1026

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    What's the point of taking the high ground for so long when you can't use it to fling at your enemies when you need to?
    To have it on record for the future. I don't necessarily disagree with the arguments and positions Democrats take, merely their political ineptness. A good example of this is the Clinton campaign, an election with the most amount of data, by virtue of being conducted during the digital age and being the latest election. Despite that, the election was still extremely close. There were a number of electoral innovations that allowed Republicans to close the gap. People can whine about election fraud and gerrymandering, but at the end of the day, election is really just a numbers game with rules and Republicans were better at navigating them.

    The Democratic base is mobilized this time around, Democrats are the ones innovating, they're also the ones on the offense in local politics, and Senate elections in 2020 are defending 23 seats versus Democrat's 12. The conditions are there for a massive Democrat federal trifecta in 2020. The momentum and polls are in favor of Democrats as well. They just have to take it. Never underestimate liberals' capacity for self-sabotage though.

  7. #1027
    B. W.'s Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    I’m pretty sure Podromos isn’t a Democrat.
    —————————
    Solid closing arguments from the House. I spoilered the dramatic summary:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    In light of the defense’s case that “abuse of power and obstruction of Congress are outside the range of impeachable offenses,” and the GOP Senate’s acknowledgement that they consider the impeachment charges to be true, this bit was especially poignant:

    "History will not be kind to Donald Trump. If you find that the House has proved its case and still vote to acquit, your name will be tied to his with a cord of steel and for all of history. But if you find the courage to stand up to him ... your place will be among the Davids who took on Goliath."

    Only criticism I have of it is that Democrats always beg Republicans to be less corrupt and do the right thing for a change, instead of calling a spade a spade. But, points for trying, I guess.
    Hahaha! It looks like Schiff has watched Terminator one too many times. That was funny.

    Quote Originally Posted by Love Mountain View Post
    To have it on record for the future. I don't necessarily disagree with the arguments and positions Democrats take, merely their political ineptness. A good example of this is the Clinton campaign, an election with the most amount of data, by virtue of being conducted during the digital age and being the latest election. Despite that, the election was still extremely close. There were a number of electoral innovations that allowed Republicans to close the gap. People can whine about election fraud and gerrymandering, but at the end of the day, election is really just a numbers game with rules and Republicans were better at navigating them.

    The Democratic base is mobilized this time around, Democrats are the ones innovating, they're also the ones on the offense in local politics, and Senate elections in 2020 are defending 23 seats versus Democrat's 12. The conditions are there for a massive Democrat federal trifecta in 2020. The momentum and polls are in favor of Democrats as well. They just have to take it. Never underestimate liberals' capacity for self-sabotage though.
    The Dems can't even write code for a simple caucus app and they're telling us they can run national healthcare.

  8. #1028

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Mitt Romney will vote to remove Trump. Proud of him.

    Chris Wallace: "You realize this is war, Donald Trump will never forgive you for this."

    Mitt Romney: "There's a hymn that is sung in my church, it's an old Protestant hymn, which is 'Do what is right; let the consequences follow.' I know in my heart that I'm doing what's right.

    "I understand there’s going to be enormous consequence. And I don’t have a choice in that regard... But on the other side, there is: do you do what you know is right? Do you do what your conscience in your heart tells you? Do you abide by the oath that you swore to God? And I believe in God and I believe I have a responsibility to put that first went to put all the other consequences behind."
    It's a cool hymn.

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  9. #1029

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    The Mormon Tabernacle Choir is impressive. What Child Is This? is my favourite hymn of theirs (note the Greensleeves melody, composed by that dastardly "Norman", HRVIII).

    Last edited by Cope; February 05, 2020 at 02:50 PM.



  10. #1030

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Very cool
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  11. #1031

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    Mitt Romney will vote to remove Trump. Proud of him.
    Indeed. It was a pleasant surprise. An aberration of real leadership on the Hill one doesn’t see much of anymore.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  12. #1032
    B. W.'s Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Trump has been acquitted. Chief Justice Roberts is awarded with the Golden Gavel. The Dem's impeachment sham is over!

    I wonder what the Democrat miscreants will come up with next.

    I don't see any reason why this thread shouldn't be closed. The impeachment that started it is done.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/05/trum...ent-trial.html
    Last edited by B. W.; February 05, 2020 at 03:45 PM.

  13. #1033

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    I hadn’t realized the results are officially in. Looking toward a likely election matchup between Lucius Cornelius Sulla Trump, and Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus Sanders, who can tell which might win? Regardless, the Republic itself will lose. How much longer, I wonder, until Caesar arrives on the scene and finishes it off?
    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; February 05, 2020 at 04:01 PM.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  14. #1034
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Not until Marcus Licinius Crassus Bloomberg makes a triumvirat with Gaius Julius Caesar (Pence, Rubio?) and Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus Pompeo.
    Last edited by Morticia Iunia Bruti; February 05, 2020 at 04:17 PM.
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  15. #1035
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Trump is euphoric.
    I will be making a public statement tomorrow at 12:00pm from the @WhiteHouse to discuss our Country’s VICTORY on the Impeachment Hoax!
    --

    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen Sylva View Post
    Not until Marcus Licinius Crassus Bloomberg makes a triumvirat with Gaius Julius Caesar (Pence, Rubio?)...

    In fact, Crassus financed Julius Caesar's campaigns in exchange for legislation that helped Crassus increase his personal fortune.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus Sanders... The Republic itself will lose
    Don't blame Tiberius...the decline started earlier. Blame the growth of the slavery. I would say that until the Punic Wars, slavery was not the decisive mode of production, and since then the rise of the big estates/today corporations changed all that. In fact, slave wages are still today the motor force of the unchecked Capitalism expansionism. Do you know the meaning of the proverb cheap as a sardinian?
    When Tiberius raided Sardinia, he took as many as 80,000 captives, to be dragged to the slave market at Rome, where the expression "as cheap as a Sardinian" became a proverb.
    But in fact Tiberius, a man of high principles, clashed with the Roman elites and became the mortal enemy of the aristocracy. After the death of Tiberius, concentration of land in the hands of the wealthy was an unstoppable process. Go figure, today his reforms do not seem excessively radical.
    The aim of the Gracchi was to populate Italy with free peasants instead of slaves. Nowadays, all the attempts to bolster small businesses and prevent the spread of monopolies by antitrust laws are a futile exercise. Rings a bell?
    Last edited by Ludicus; February 05, 2020 at 05:55 PM.
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  16. #1036

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    Indeed. It was a pleasant surprise. An aberration of real leadership on the Hill one doesn’t see much of anymore.
    Indeed, nothing defined real leadership like changing sides over and over again:


    Won't be surprised if Mittens bends the knee to Trump again.

  17. #1037

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    This shows his weakness more than anything. With this economy and no major foreign policy disasters, any other president would be at 55% approval right now. Trump can't even get to majority approval and trails Biden by 4-9 points in most polls. He's not in good place at all.
    The same pollsters said Hillary would win the election, but it was wrong. I suspect that polls are becoming increasing unreliable, and these show what the largely left leaning media wishes was true, not necessarily what is.

    The only poll that matters is the ballot box.


    As for impeachment, a solid majority of Americans now believe Trump abused his power, and a smaller majority favor removing him from office. Even if Trump isn't removed by the Senate, impeachment has more than served its purpose. All in all, it was a smart move.

    4 Reasons Impeachment Was Worth It
    The entire impeachment process didn't change anyone's mind. It reinforced those who hated Trump before he even took office. When they talk about history, never in the history of the US did we have a campaign of people (Democrats) who tried to persuade the Electors not to do their duty and but to ignore the results of the election, because they didn't get their way. There is a move by Democrats to have all their state's electoral votes go the candidate who wins the popular vote, regardless of how their particular state actually voted, a clear attempt by Democrats to circumvent the Constitution. There is a perfectly Constitutional way to change the Constitution, but as usual, the Democrats couldn't be bothered.


    Those who support Trump see the entire impeachment process for what it was, a political ploy. The Democrats tried to get Trump on anything they could find, they couldn't get him on the mythical Russian election fraud, so they went hunting for something else. Let's look at some facts:

    1. Did Ukraine get its money? Yes or No. The answer is yes.

    2. Was Biden's son investigated by Urkaine before Ukraine got its money, Yes or No. The answer is No.

    So when you look at it, there is no collusion. Trump delaying payment to first verify that country with a known history of corruption now had the commitment to battle corruption is not a bad thing, and Trump still gave the money within the time deadline established by congress.

    And as far as obstruction, Trump refusing to hand over documents while the Democrats go on a fishing expedition is not constitutional or just. Asking for tax records of Trump before Trump even became office well beyond Congress authority and was not justified. It is not Congress job to enforce the laws and deal with matters on Trump when he was a private citizen, I don't see anyone from the media complaining about "obstruction" when records just happened to be lost, not just once but several times (IRS, FBI). Of course, they "claim" all the records were recovered, but we only have the IRS and FBI word that they were.

    As far as Trump's alleged Russian collusion

    1. It was Obama, not Trump that allowed Russia to takeover a large part of Ukraine without doing anything real about it. The toothless sanctions were the only thing Obama did.

    2. It was Obama that cancelled the US missile defense system in Eastern Europe to appease the Russians, not Trump.

    3. It was Obama, not Trump, that allowed the Russians to sell S300 missiles to Iran.

    4. It was Obama that didn't enforce his own "red line" against Russian ally Syria. It was Trump, not Obama, that enforced the "red line" in Russian ally Syria when Syria crossed it, and attacked their own people using chemical weapons. The strikes possibly led to Russia deaths, which makes the claim that Trump is really an agent of Russia as the Trump haters claim rather unlikely.

    If anyone was an agent of Russia, it was clearly Obama. It is has been Trump, not Obama that has been trying to keep Russia in check. But Trump rightly focused on China more as a bigger threat, while all the Democrats did was take campaign contributions from China. Those of us who don't suffer from a lack of short term memory remember the scandal of Clinton receiving campaign contributions from Buddhist monks with a vow of poverty. It was only Trump that at least has been trying to address the trade policies with China, that has resulted in massive job losses in the US. The only time the Democrats cared about what China did was when someone like Bill Gates complained about China illegal copying his company's software. Do I think Trump is slime? Yep, But so was Bill Clinton, and most politicians in my view.

    The country was divided before impeachment, and remains as divided as ever, and I don't think the results of impeachment process won't change people's minds one or or the other. If the Democrats nominate a more centralist candidate, they can win, otherwise they stand to lose again.

    https://www.hudson.org/research/1414...states-expense

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_U...ce_controversy

  18. #1038

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Indeed, nothing defined real leadership like changing sides over and over again:

    Won't be surprised if Mittens bends the knee to Trump again.
    How much more pathetic must therefore be those Republicans who couldn’t even cast a symbolic vote after they’d already admitted they believed Trump to be guilty as charged? The bar for leadership quality in the GOP is apparently at “Reek” level, and they couldn’t even get there. At least Romney made one last futile run at the Night King in the end.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Don't blame Tiberius...the decline started earlier. Blame the growth of the slavery. I would say that until the Punic Wars, slavery was not the decisive mode of production, and since then the rise of the big estates/today corporations changed all that. In fact, slave wages are still today the motor force of the unchecked Capitalism expansionism. Do you know the meaning of the proverb cheap as a sardinian?
    When Tiberius raided Sardinia, he took as many as 80,000 captives, to be dragged to the slave market at Rome, where the expression "as cheap as a Sardinian" became a proverb.
    But in fact Tiberius, a man of high principles, clashed with the Roman elites and became the mortal enemy of the aristocracy. After the death of Tiberius, concentration of land in the hands of the wealthy was an unstoppable process. Go figure, today his reforms do not seem excessively radical.
    The aim of the Gracchi was to populate Italy with free peasants instead of slaves. Nowadays, all the attempts to bolster small businesses and prevent the spread of monopolies by antitrust laws are a futile exercise. Rings a bell?
    The reference is a metaphor for the reactionary destabilization represented by Trump and Sanders, just 8 years after Obama and Romney were considered the definition of left and right wing in the US. Lots of candidates in the race are anti-trust and anti-corporate.
    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; February 05, 2020 at 11:15 PM.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  19. #1039

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    The attack on Romney and other former Republican Presidents/candidates as a RINO/deepstate/Democrat agent is ridiculous. Do they really do think no one remembers the Republicans were 100% behind these men an one point? That McCain and Romney were said to be the nation's only hope against "Socialism"? Or how they couldn't wait to go to Iraq and anyone who questioned George W. Bush's rush to war was a terrorist sympathizer at the very least?

    I'm calling it now, Republicans will eventually denounce Regan as a RINO once it comes out he looked at Trump wrong one time in the 70s.
    Last edited by Coughdrop addict; February 06, 2020 at 02:22 AM.

  20. #1040

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    How much more pathetic must therefore be those Republicans who couldn’t even cast a symbolic vote after they’d already admitted they believed Trump to be guilty as charged? The bar for leadership quality in the GOP is apparently at “Reek” level, and they couldn’t even get there. At least Romney made one last futile run at the Night King in the end.
    Not really, Romney just crapped the bed, as usual. But it clearly shows that GOP is doing much better then Dems, as only one guy, Romney, turned out to be pathetic and weak enough to side with Dems.
    Of course it has nothing to do with "convictions", if morons like McCain or Bush sr. were alive and held political office they'd probably act in the same way. It is a good thin that spineless double-sided neocon breed that types like Romney or Bush represented is dying out.
    Hopefully, once Trump is re-elected and Romney starts kissing his shoes again, Trump doesn't trust him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    The attack on Romney and other former Republican Presidents/candidates as a RINO/deepstate/Democrat agent is ridiculous. Do they really do think no one remembers the Republicans were 100% behind these men an one point? That McCain and Romney were said to be the nation's only hope against "Socialism"? Or how they couldn't wait to go to Iraq and anyone who questioned George W. Bush's rush to war was a terrorist sympathizer at the very least?

    I'm calling it now, Republicans will eventually denounce Regan as a RINO once it comes out he looked at Trump wrong one time in the 70s.
    Nah, Romney was never a real Republican, he was just used by establishmentarians to push out grassroots candidates in 2012. Also most of Dems supported Iraq war too, including most current front-runners. Romney is just a typical pro-establishment neocon, thankfully, his types are dying like rabid flies (Bush sr., McCain, etc.)
    Last edited by Heathen Hammer; February 06, 2020 at 07:47 AM.

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