US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

[Heathen Hammer]

I'm pretty sure that Heathen Hammer has never supported establishment conservatives like Mitt Romney.

Yep, I was tentatively leaning towards Obama as lesser evil at the time. in retrospective, I still think that US dodged the bullet in 2008 and 2012, as GOP primaries were hopelessly clogged with neocon influence, as well as media smearing/ignoring more grassroots candidates like Ron Paul. Thankfully, that cycle has been broken by Trump in 2016, and that's what our TDS friends are really mad about.

[Ludicus]

I agree that by European standards most of those they regard as centrist would be regarded as being leftist by Americans.

Indeed. I came to the conclusion that there is no big difference between right-wing democrats and Republicans.It's just a partisan rivalry.

It was Obama who withheld a billion dollars in aid to force Ukraine to fire the prosecutor,

I don't think so, joe Biden admits it himself: he brags about threatening to withhold military aid to Ukraine: Joe Biden Brags
But -just for the sake of argument, let's suppose you are right. Let's keep in mind that,
1- The Russia-Ukrainian war started in February 2014.
2-In March of the same year, Congress Approves Aid of $1 Billion for Ukraine ;
3- In October 2015, the BBC reports: "So the chances are that a so-called "frozen conflict" may persist, where the fighting is at a low level, but the threat of escalation remains.For now the firing has stopped in the east, but the conflict is nowhere near over."
4-In December of the same year, Biden blackmails the president of Ukraine: "fire the prosecutor general or the US would not release $1 billion", he said.

So, the question is, how vital was US military aid to Ukraine?

It's interesting to note that the hypocrite forgot Matthew 7:3-5, while he railed against the "cancer of corruption" in Ukraine.

[Heathen Hammer]

There are no "European" standards that would view Sanders as "centrist", just the ... marxist standards who are proclaimed as European despite the electoral curb-stomping that Marxist movements recently received from European electorates.
What do we have in reality? Overton window is pushed far left - as Trump objectively being a centrist (80s New York Democrat and such), Rand being to the right of him (Ron Paul would be a bit further to the right as hardliner libertarian), while Democrat neoliberals are at the left and then Sanders as far-left.

[Ludicus]

What do we have in reality?... Trump objectively being a centrist.

In reality, Trump- a white nationalist- is a quasi-dictator, ("the Constitution says I can do whatever I want"), wants to be a dictator,and loves dictators. Read my lips: your leader is a repulsive human being. Trump Asked for 'My Favorite Dictator,' Egyptian President Sisi
---
But I repeat- there is no substantial difference between right wing Democrats and Republicans.Hmm, let's see, how to beat your billionaire? here is our "un-Trump" billionaire, 17 times richer than your billionaire. It's over, we won. Rhode Island governor backs Michael Bloomberg for president

Well, not yet.From the news,Bernie Sanders Leads New Hampshire Polls. What It Means

The data-journalism website FiveThirtyEight puts Sanders as the front-runner in the Democratic primary, with a 45% chance of winning the nomination.
If Sanders’s surge continues, it could be bad for health-care stocks, according to an analysis by Goldman Sachs portfolio strategy analyst Ben Snider

Right. Bad for health-care stocks, good for people's health.
Sanders's model is the nordic model.Trump is pathologically obsessed with Scandinavia, the far right-idiot loves to hate Sweden and Denmark.And here we go again,



In fact, Bernie Sanders and AOC support the Nordic model and Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin also backs the idea, and endorses Sanders. "I feel that the American Dream can be achieved best in the Nordic countries", she says. In fact Finland is the world's happiest country – again | World Economic Forum

And... fresh news, Finland Will Now Offer New Parents 7 Months Of Paid Family

This equals out to 164 days of paid time off for each parent
In news that will make you want to book the next Cheapo Air flight to Northern Europe, Finland has finalized its family leave policy to include seven months off for new parents. That’s 164 days of paid time off for each parent, with single parents getting the full 328 days. The new policy will go into effect in 2021.

Finland’s new family leave policy offers the “daily allowance days” to each parent, and each parent is also allowed to transfer up to 69 of their own days to the other parent if they so desire. Currently, the country allows mothers about four months of paid maternity leave and new fathers get about two months — still leagues beyond what the United States offers, which is zero paid time off.

The new policy is more inclusive all around, as it eliminates gender-specific time allotments and says its “suitable for all families,” according to the news release.
“The model guarantees the child a place at the center of family benefits and promotes wellbeing and gender equality,” Aino-Kaisa Pekonen, minister of social affairs and health, says in a statement.

Sweden currently leads the world in family leave, giving a total of 480 days to a couple or 240 days each. Last year, UNICEF analyzed family leave policies around the world among 31 “rich” countries, including the U.S.
Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Estonia, and Portugal were considered at that time to offer the best “family-friendly” policies, including national paid leave.

The U.S., of course, was the only country in the entire analysis that had no national paid leave for mothers and fathers.
It’s still the only industrialized nation in the world with zero nationwide laws regarding paid parental leave, though.

Shame on you, far-right America.

[B. W.]

In reality, Trump- a white nationalist- is a quasi-dictator, ("the Constitution says I can do whatever I want"), wants to be a dictator,and loves dictators. Read my lips: your leader is a repulsive human being. Trump Asked for 'My Favorite Dictator,' Egyptian President Sisi
---
But I repeat- there is no substantial difference between right wing Democrats and Republicans.Hmm, let's see, how to beat your billionaire? here is our "un-Trump" billionaire, 17 times richer than your billionaire. It's over, we won. Rhode Island governor backs Michael Bloomberg for president

Well, not yet.From the news,Bernie Sanders Leads New Hampshire Polls. What It Means



Right. Bad for health-care stocks, good for people's health.
Sanders's model is the nordic model.Trump is pathologically obsessed with Scandinavia, the far right-idiot loves to hate Sweden and Denmark.And here we go again,



In fact, Bernie Sanders and AOC support the Nordic model and Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin also backs the idea, and endorses Sanders. "I feel that the American Dream can be achieved best in the Nordic countries", she says. In fact Finland is the world's happiest country – again | World Economic Forum

And... fresh news, Finland Will Now Offer New Parents 7 Months Of Paid Family


Shame on you, far-right America.

Yeah, everything is wonderful in Denmark as long as another country pays for its defense spending.
As long as another country's navy keeps its shipping lanes safe.
As long as another country insures its energy supply is secure.

Shame on you left wing Denmark!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-welfare-state

[Common Soldier]

Indeed. I came to the conclusion that there is no big difference between right-wing democrats and Republicans.It's just a partisan rivalry.

There are few if any right wing Democrats these days, and you seem to feel that anyone who isn't a communist or a socialist is a conservative. Standards are different in the US.

I don't think so, joe Biden admits it himself: he brags about threatening to withhold military aid to Ukraine: Joe Biden Brags
But -just for the sake of argument, let's suppose you are right. Let's keep in mind that,
1- The Russia-Ukrainian war started in February 2014.
2-In March of the same year, Congress Approves Aid of $1 Billion for Ukraine ;
3- In October 2015, the BBC reports: "So the chances are that a so-called "frozen conflict" may persist, where the fighting is at a low level, but the threat of escalation remains.For now the firing has stopped in the east, but the conflict is nowhere near over."
4-In December of the same year, Biden blackmails the president of Ukraine: "fire the prosecutor general or the US would not release $1 billion", he said.

You don't know how American govermnent works. Biden may have claimed reaponsility, but he at best could only have persuaded Obama to act. Unless it is breaking a tie in the Senate, the Vice President doesn't have any power on his own. As I said, Biden couldn't withhold ten cents on his own. Only Obama had the authority to due so.

So, the question is, how vital was US military aid to Ukraine?

It's interesting to note that the hypocrite forgot Matthew 7:3-5, while he railed against the "cancer of corruption" in Ukraine.

There is corruption in the corruption in Ukraine, that is a reality. And talk about being a hypocrite, it is rather hypocritical to impeach Trump for doing what Obama had actually done. Obama withheld money from Ukraine, to force them to remove someone they didn't like. Trump, unlike Obama, merely delayed giving thr money to the Ukraine, Ukraine got the money without doing the investigation. Obama actually withheld the money until Ukraine did what Obama administration demanded.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Put simply, there is no evidence to support the conspiracy theory that Trump and his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani want Ukraine to validate by opening an investigation. Still, it has become an article of faith among Trump supporters that Biden got the chief prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, dismissed to derail a corruption investigation of a Ukrainian firm his son was paid to advise.

What’s most telling about this claim is that while there is no evidence at all that Biden abused his power over U.S. aid to Ukraine to advance his own interests, there is plenty of evidence that Trump did delay $250 million in U.S. military aid to Ukraine this summer just as he was pressing its new president, Zelensky, to do him a political favor by opening a phony investigation into Biden.

https://theintercept.com/2019/09/22/...biden-ukraine/

The false comparison between Obama/Biden and Trump was debunked months ago.

[Heathen Hammer]

Biden debunked the whole thing about Trump himself, when he bragged about getting chief prosecutor fired for investigating his crakchead son.

In reality, Trump- a white nationalist- is a quasi-dictator,

He is also a Galactic Supremacist and Chaos Overlord.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Biden debunked the whole thing about Trump himself, when he bragged about getting chief prosecutor fired for investigating his crakchead son.

What you’ve said here is a lie. Biden did not brag about getting Shokin fired for investigating his son.

[Heathen Hammer]

What you’ve said here is a lie. Biden did not brag about getting Shokin fired for investigating his son.

Let us guess, in the video where he bragged about getting him fired for prosecuting that junkie son of his, he was mind-controlled by GRU?

[Lord Thesaurian]

Let us guess, in the video where he bragged about getting him fired for prosecuting that junkie son of his, he was mind-controlled by GRU?

Citation needed

[Cope]

Let us guess, in the video where he bragged about getting him fired for prosecuting that junkie son of his, he was mind-controlled by GRU?

Of course we could've learnt the truth about Biden's widely known conflict of interest in Ukraine had there been an investigation. But apparently asking for one would be a "high crime".

[Ludicus]

Yeah, everything is wonderful in Denmark as long as another country pays for its defense spending.... It could also damage the cherished welfare state.https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-welfare-state

Ah, I see-Bloomberg for President!
Well, "paying for protection" has limits: the red line is the welfare state. Denmark ups defense budget - Defense News
The real question: what's the cost of the US never ending wars? for the American people and for the world? as you should already know, 'NATO plus ME': Trump proposes NATO expansion into Middle

President Donald Trump on Thursday proposed expanding NATO's membership to include Middle Eastern nations in light of recent U.S. tensions in the region with Iran.

In Europe, we cherish the welfare state.French workers cherish their welfare state. That's why they're striking

The US selvatic hiper-capitalist system is disgusting,it encourages the worst aspects of human nature. Explain the reason why in 2018, 60 of America's top corporations paid $0 federal income taxes. Explain the reason why Trump says undocumented immigrants are an economic burden. In fact,they pay billions in taxes. In 2015 undocumented immigrants paid $20 billion in income taxes - including funding Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

There are few if any right wing Democrats these days, and you seem to feel that anyone who isn't a communist or a socialist is a conservative..

Not exactly...was Franklin Roosevelt a socialist -or communist? was Kennedy a socialist? 31 January 1962, Special message on public welfare .
John F Kennedy Argues For Universal Healthcare

Biden may have claimed responsibility, but he at best could only have persuaded Obama to act... As I said, Biden couldn't withhold ten cents on his own. Only Obama had the authority to due so... Obama actually withheld the money

No, it didn't happen - and that's not the point. Biden was bluffing. Bluffing is a rational strategy in a poker game. In politics, bluffers/liars usually show some degrees of moral disengagement.
Both did the same thing, Trump and Biden. Political/economic blackmail and bluff. At the end of the day, the weak, hypocrite excuse "They should have told me" deserves to be investigated.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Of course we could've learnt the truth about Biden's widely known conflict of interest in Ukraine had there been an investigation. But apparently asking for one would be a "high crime".

Trump abused his power in an attempt to get Ukraine to announce an investigation into his political opponent, then openly obstructed Congress’ investigation into the matter. We’ll see what Senate Republicans can find when their investigation into Hunter Biden gets underway.

[Heathen Hammer]

Citation needed

Biden himself bragged about it. On camera.

[Lord Thesaurian]

I'm desperately concerned the backsliding on the part of, Kiev in terms of corruption. I will give you one example. that was the assignment I got. I got all the good ones. I got Ukraine. I remember going, convincing our team, that we should be providing for loan guarantees. to try to guess the 13th time, I was supposed to announce in Kiev that there was another billion-dollar loan guaranty. I got the commitment that they would take action against the state prosecutor and they did not. They were walking out of the press conference, we are not going to give you the billion dollars. they said you have no authority. you are not the President. I said, call him. You are not getting the billion dollars. I'm leaving in six hours. The prosecutor is not fired, you are not getting the money. son of a

, he got fired. [laughter]

Biden debunked the whole thing about Trump himself, when he bragged about getting chief prosecutor fired for investigating his crakchead son. Biden himself bragged about it. On camera.

Per your own source, you lied. Biden did not brag about getting Shokin fired for investigating his son. You have presented no evidence to support that claim. If anything, the available evidence indicates Shokin’s removal made further investigation into Burisma more likely, not less.

[Heathen Hammer]

Per your own source, you lied. Biden did not brag about getting Shokin fired for investigating his son. You have presented no evidence to support that claim. If anything, the available evidence indicates Shokin’s removal made further investigation into Burisma more likely, not less.

So.. Biden admitting it himself was him also lying to incriminate himself? That's the hottest take I've seen, and we've had quite a lot from regressive left on on this thread alone.

[Lord Thesaurian]

So.. Biden admitting it himself was him also lying to incriminate himself? That's the hottest take I've seen, and we've had quite a lot from regressive left on on this thread alone.

You’re lying again. You lied, and you got called out for it. That’s the take.

[Heathen Hammer]

You’re lying again. You lied, and you got called out for it. That’s the take.

All I did was quote Biden himself. Again, are you claiming that the video where he brags about getting prosecutor fired for investigating his crackhead son is fake or something?

[Ludicus]

So.and we've had quite a lot from regressive left on on this thread alone.

Legio is right, you are blatantly lying.Biden did not brag about getting Shokin fired for investigating his son
I quote,

And I had gotten a commitment from Poroshenko and from Yatsenyuk that they would take action against the state prosecutor. And they didn’t". I said, I’m telling you, you’re not getting the billion dollars. I said, you’re not getting the billion. I’m going to be leaving here in, I think it was about six hours. I looked at them and said: I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money. Well, son of a . (Laughter.) He got fired

As I said, "it's interesting to note that the hypocrite forgot Matthew 7:3-5, while he railed against the "cancer of corruption" in Ukraine".
No more, no less.