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Thread: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

  1. #361

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    The evidence is so obvious, so overwhelming, so compelling, we won't vote on it!

    It's watergate all over again am i rite???

  2. #362
    Katsumoto's Avatar Quae est infernum es
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    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Rather than repeating the latest Fox News talking point, maybe spend some time understanding the evidence and the fact that there doesn't need to be a vote on diddly until the House feels like it.

    https://www.lawfareblog.com/must-hou...chment-inquiry
    "I pray Heaven to bestow the best of blessings on this house and all that shall hereafter inhabit it. May none but honest and wise men ever rule under this roof."
    - John Adams, on the White House, in a letter to Abigail Adams (2 November 1800)

  3. #363
    B. W.'s Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumoto View Post
    Gotcha. A transcript, a video and multiple testimonies to Congress are 'accusations', but an article from American Thinker is 'documentary evidence'.
    HaHa! That video, data September 22, is exactly the reason why they call CNN fake news. Everything in it has been discredited.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumoto View Post
    Rather than repeating the latest Fox News talking point, maybe spend some time understanding the evidence and the fact that there doesn't need to be a vote on diddly until the House feels like it.

    https://www.lawfareblog.com/must-hou...chment-inquiry
    More HaHA! So we'll have a secret investigation, not let Republicans attend, then we'll selectively leak portions of testimony to make it look like the witness testified to something they didn't testify to. Oh yeah, that's so constitutional.

  4. #364

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumoto View Post
    Rather than repeating the latest Fox News talking point, maybe spend some time understanding the evidence and the fact that there doesn't need to be a vote on diddly until the House feels like it.

    https://www.lawfareblog.com/must-hou...chment-inquiry
    The proof is in the pudding. If this was a real issue they would take a vote. It’s like bragging that you’re better at something but not willing to make a bet. They won’t vote because they know it’s a clown show for their constituents that demand impeachment. Remember when they were bragging about a vote by Thanksgiving? What changed all of the sudden?

  5. #365
    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumoto View Post
    Rather than repeating the latest Fox News talking point, maybe spend some time understanding the evidence and the fact that there doesn't need to be a vote on diddly until the House feels like it.

    https://www.lawfareblog.com/must-hou...chment-inquiry
    Yea butt, butt, their's 51% of the country clamoring for impeachment!!!!!!!
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

  6. #366
    Legio_Italica's Avatar Lost in Limbo
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    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by tgoodenow View Post
    The proof is in the pudding. If this was a real issue they would take a vote. It’s like bragging that you’re better at something but not willing to make a bet. They won’t vote because they know it’s a clown show for their constituents that demand impeachment. Remember when they were bragging about a vote by Thanksgiving? What changed all of the sudden?
    I’m curious as to why you’ve rendered judgement on the validity of the entire impeachment effort merely because Pelosi declined to take her cues from the subject of the inquiry. Especially when it’s all but certain your posts to the effect are not going to age well.

    Trump himself wrote a “beautiful, perfect” basis for his own impeachment inquiry in a now infamous memo to the public. No vote is required or even necessary to the impeachment process. As was pointed out, the House could immediately vote on any proposed articles of impeachment, and has tabled many such motions as recently as this year.
    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    Not when it is about a campaign opponent, he's not, for reasons I hoped would be obvious. That's why, you know, former Presidents didn't do this. I guess Trump is just that good at 3D chess?

    Not really, no, that's not how checks on power work. You can't abuse a power and then retroactively make it a not abuse of power because it resulted in something. Again, this is like saying police are allowed to raid a residence without a warrant as long as they can point to something illegal they found on the premises.
    Nevertheless, if Trump has decent lawyers, they will argue exactly this if or when the time comes. More importantly, the GOP has already indicated this is how they will approach the issue of impeachment when it comes to a vote. The key point is that any chance Trump’s intent or lack thereof could be used as a defense is false given the context of what has been public knowledge for several years now.

    With the GOP and Trump’s megaphone united behind the false narrative of Biden’s criminal corruption, facts to the contrary won’t matter to enough Republican voters to keep Congressional Republicans in line. It looks to be shaping up for the basis of the Trump 2020 campaign as well. Public support for the impeachment inquiry is climbing, so we’ll have to see if Trump can shout over the noise of rapidly developing investigations that already have the Administration openly trying and failing to obstruct them.

  7. #367

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    I don’t care if they have to take the vote or not. What is relevant is the fact that they don’t want to take the vote. If this was a home run slam dunk like it’s been drummed up to be, a vote would take place immediately. It’s simply not and that’s why there’s no vote.

  8. #368

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Why should Democrats have a vote? Not only isn't it needed, but they know Republicans won't care what evidence they submit. They would support Trump if he murdered their families, so why even pretend abuse of power would bother his base?

  9. #369
    Legio_Italica's Avatar Lost in Limbo
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    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by tgoodenow View Post
    I don’t care if they have to take the vote or not. What is relevant is the fact that they don’t want to take the vote. If this was a home run slam dunk like it’s been drummed up to be, a vote would take place immediately. It’s simply not and that’s why there’s no vote.
    Repeating yourself doesn’t make your circular logic more compelling.

  10. #370
    B. W.'s Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    Why should Democrats have a vote? Not only isn't it needed, but they know Republicans won't care what evidence they submit. They would support Trump if he murdered their families, so why even pretend abuse of power would bother his base?
    Democrats in districts that were won by Trump don't want to go on record supporting impeachment. That's a fact. They were expecting a big win in the Louisiana elections this past week and they got blown out by the GOP. Before the election, left-wing media were going on and on about how the results would spell doom for the Republicans. After the election they barely mentioned the results.

    In short, the Dems won't vote on it because they're scared.

  11. #371
    Katsumoto's Avatar Quae est infernum es
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    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump’s acting chief of staff on Thursday acknowledged that Trump held up $391 million in military aid to Ukraine in part to make the money contingent upon the Ukrainians investigating a U.S. domestic political matter involving the Democratic Party.

    Trump and administration officials had denied for weeks that it had demanded a “quid pro quo” - a Latin phrase meaning a favour for a favour - for delivering the U.S. aid, a key part of a controversy that has triggered an impeachment inquiry in the House of Representatives against the Republican president.

    But Mick Mulvaney, acting White House chief of staff, acknowledged in a briefing with reporters that the U.S. aid was held up over Trump’s concerns about a Democratic National Committee (DNC) computer server alleged to be in Ukraine.
    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-us...KBN1WW1C9?il=0

    Well, well, well, well, well.
    "I pray Heaven to bestow the best of blessings on this house and all that shall hereafter inhabit it. May none but honest and wise men ever rule under this roof."
    - John Adams, on the White House, in a letter to Abigail Adams (2 November 1800)

  12. #372
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    I really don't see how there's much arguing anymore, in this plane of reality anyway.
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  13. #373

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    Former presidents have done much the same, including Obama.

    The Controversy
    The Trump–Ukraine controversy is an ongoing political scandal in the United States. In October 2019, whistleblower reports revealed that U.S. President Donald Trump, his lawyer Rudy Giuliani and top Trump administration officials asked the government of Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden – Trump's potential opponent in the 2020 presidential election – and his son Hunter Biden, reportedly in exchange for U.S. military aid to Ukraine.

    Historians, diplomats, and former White House officials of both parties have said that it was unprecedented for a U.S. president to solicit foreign interference in American elections for his own personal and political benefit. The controversy led to an impeachment inquiry against Trump.
    I have never heard of a historic example of what Trump did here.

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    As to your question, it is just plain silly. I didn't answer it so as not to make you look foolish,

    The faux concern is lovely, thank you.
    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    but since you insist I'll have to break the news to you that the President can't suspend Congress. That's outside his authority.
    The President "can't" solicit campaign aid from a foreign government (especially with military aid on the line for them), yet here we are. The POTUS "can" do pretty much anything he wants, it's just up to the checks on the system to do something if the context calls for it. Given this is (in your view) a dramatic and fabricated coup event, Trump has precedents for some extreme executive actions, does he not?
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  14. #374

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumoto View Post
    I still don't see how this is a quid pro quo.

    -People

  15. #375

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    I really don't see how there's much arguing anymore, in this plane of reality anyway.
    Lies are hard to maintain.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  16. #376

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    I still don't see how this is a quid pro quo.

    -People
    The controversy surrounding an alleged "quid pro quo" related to Trump's request that Zelensky "look into" the Bidens. The White House withholding aid on the basis that the Ukrainians weren't turning over evidence relating to electoral interference in 2016 (which is what the source states) is an entirely separate matter and would be nothing out of the ordinary. There has been a deliberate and concerted effort to conflate these two issues since the day the transcript was released.

  17. #377

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail View Post
    The controversy surrounding an alleged "quid pro quo" related to Trump's request that Zelensky "look into" the Bidens. The White House withholding aid on the basis that the Ukrainians weren't turning over evidence relating to electoral interference in 2016 (which is what the source states) is an entirely separate matter and would be nothing out of the ordinary. There has been a deliberate and concerted effort to conflate these two issues since the day the transcript was released.
    While you jump through hoops Republicans are starting to ask questions.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  18. #378
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Ok so was this to do with Trump wanting Biden investigated or not. If not then why is it not off topic?
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  19. #379

    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Ok so was this to do with Trump wanting Biden investigated or not. If not then why is it not off topic?
    It has nothing to do with Trump asking Zelensky to "look into" the Bidens. The "hacking" of the DNC server relates to the 2016 election and is an entirely separate matter. The usual suspects are attempting to conflate the two issues so as to give the impression that the President withheld aid in order to pressure the Ukrainians to launch an investigation into Joe Biden - a point for which there is no evidence. This is the same strategy which was employed to mislead folks into believing that Trump had asked Zelensky to investigate Biden as a "favour". The dramatic fussing about the term "quid pro quo" is also nothing more than propaganda. Bartering (something for something) is an inevitable aspect of international relations: it is exactly what Biden himself was doing when he withheld $1bn of U.S. aid until the Ukrainian administration dismissed Shokin.
    Last edited by ep1c_fail; October 18, 2019 at 06:46 AM.

  20. #380
    Katsumoto's Avatar Quae est infernum es
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    Default Re: US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

    It depends if you want to believe Mulvaney when he suggested withholding the aid was exclusively based on investigating 'the server' and that the two requests (investigating Biden and the server) are separate as ep1c is suggesting. Personally, that strikes me as rather generous. Trump went to great lengths to have Ukraine investigate Biden, even sending Rudy to handle it. He made both requests in the infamous memo. Yet withholding the aid was now only related to the server issue, despite them previously denying that it was related to either? Doesn't make sense to me.
    Last edited by Katsumoto; October 18, 2019 at 06:58 AM.
    "I pray Heaven to bestow the best of blessings on this house and all that shall hereafter inhabit it. May none but honest and wise men ever rule under this roof."
    - John Adams, on the White House, in a letter to Abigail Adams (2 November 1800)

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