US House Speaker Announces Formal Impeachment Inquiry

[Cope]

So far at least I haven't been able to figure out what the fuss is about. I read the transcript, Trump said a lot of rather incomprehensible things as usual, but nothing that seemed like the grand conspiracy I was hearing about in the news. This all feels like a second go at the Russian-collusion witch-hunt. Seeing how polarized the US political system currently is one thing I am fairly certain of, if Trump is impeached it won't be because of sth he did, but because he is Trump.

It's an election play, not a serious attempt to show impropriety on Trump's part - which is just as well because, as you say, there's nothing there. The fact that Pelosi launched the impeachment inquiry before the transcript was leaked is a clear indication the conversation between Trump and Zelensky was never intended to be treated as a "final straw" but rather as fuel to be added to the fire. The problem that the Democrats have is that this contrived "scandal" risks throwing the party's most valuable asset - Joe Biden - under the bus by drawing direct attention to his supposed illicit activities in the Ukraine. For those of us who would rather see a moderate in the White House, it could be a problem.

[alhoon]

If the Russia investigation, which Democrats originally framed as an impeachment-oriented investigation, didn’t flip voters to the GOP, I’m not sure why impeachment by another name would suddenly change hearts and minds.

It's not so much as turning Democrats to Republicans but more as "rallying the Republicans to wake up at 5 am, grab their bedridden 104-years old great grandmother out of bed and lead her to the voting booth with the IV still in her veins to vote, while disillusioned with democrats independents don't show up to vote for the Democrat candidate."

[Lord Thesaurian]

It's not so much as turning Democrats to Republicans but more as "rallying the Republicans to wake up at 5 am, grab their bedridden 104-years old great grandmother out of bed and lead her to the voting booth with the IV still in her veins to vote, while disillusioned with democrats independents don't show up to vote for the Democrat candidate."

I was referring to independents. Did the Russia investigation create some shift among independents against Democrats or toward Republicans? Didn’t seem that way to me, but I’m just going by the results of the midterms and 2020 polling.

[Coughdrop addict]

I think this just goes to show that Republicans now see actions in and of themselves as neutral. Actions become good or bad based on who is doing them, rather than what is being done. That's why they will support Trump without question no matter what. Trump's actions are seen as good because he is doing them.

I really don't think there is a limit on what they will support. Republicans used to be against more government involvement in the economy, until Trump wanted tariffs. Republicans used to believe the family unit was important, until Trump wanted to separate child from their parents and imprison them indefinitely. Republicans currently believe the right to bear arms is absolute, but should Trump decide it isn't who knows?

So why should Democrats even consider the effects of impeachment on Republican support or worry about losing it? Why not just assume that Republicans will oppose anything we do and demand to lock us up regardless of the facts? Why even bother with them?

[alhoon]

I was referring to independents. Did the Russia investigation create some shift among independents against Democrats or toward Republicans? Didn’t seem that way to me, but I’m just going by the results of the midterms and 2020 polling.

Hmmm? The midterms happened after the Russian probe and Muller's report? I don't remember everything.

It would be of interest if we could see the effect of the report. From what I recall, anti-Trumpism turned from quite-high pre-Muller to quite-lost post Muller.

[Lord Thesaurian]

The report had little impact on Trump’s approval rating. That’s my point.


https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-amer...ueller-report?

[Cyclops]

Trump may have clumsily pressured Ukraine for a favour, it would not be surprising given 1. I'm dead certain all US administrations leverage aid for favours, including party political ones and 2. Trump's pretty naive with his foreign diplomacy.

Can we at least agree that a wayward family member of a prominent politician finding lucrative employment with a corporation despite having no apparent skills suitable for the given position could, possibly raise an eyebrow of a suspiciously minded person?

Indeed, I doubt that this is a good faith impeachment process. As an outside there are aspects of Trump's administration that would be interesting to know more about eg his tax records, but the Democrats shy away from doing anything concrete 9they certainly blow lots of smoke, just like Trump does) that would anger their billionaire backers. All this nonsense about Swamps and the shrill hatred for Trump but they've all been at the same parties with the paedophile party favour fixer, and they all take the same dollars from the same small cabal of billionaires.

I guess Pelosi thinks she has a case here, either in the transcripts or regarding individuals close to this case, and as Conon says wants some testimony on the record to set up a "misleading Congress" gotcha moment.

[Heathen Hammer]

Ah yes, the usual Democrat smokescreen to distract the plebs from corrupt adventures of Biden and his son in Ukraine.

[Love Mountain]

It's nothing. This is the transcript.

The conversation raised concerns by a whistleblower that Trump may have broken the law by asking for foreign help against a potential election rival. But the Justice Department concluded that, based on the evidence that's available, prosecutors "did not and could not make out a criminal campaign finance violation." A "thing of value" has to be in some way quantifiable, and the Justice Department couldn't find that here, officials said.

As expected, the reaction of the press is an embarrassment.

I absolutely love how this guy is much more concerned with the "media" than with a blatant abuse of power by the POTUS.

Ah yes, the usual Democrat smokescreen to distract the plebs from corrupt adventures of Biden and his son in Ukraine.

You think it's okay for the POTUS to investigate his political opponents?

Trump may have clumsily pressured Ukraine for a favour, it would not be surprising given 1. I'm dead certain all US administrations leverage aid for favours, including party political ones and 2. Trump's pretty naive with his foreign diplomacy.

He clumsily asked them to investigate a political opponent.

Indeed, I doubt that this is a good faith impeachment process. As an outside there are aspects of Trump's administration that would be interesting to know more about eg his tax records, but the Democrats shy away from doing anything concrete 9they certainly blow lots of smoke, just like Trump does) that would anger their billionaire backers. All this nonsense about Swamps and the shrill hatred for Trump but they've all been at the same parties with the paedophile party favour fixer, and they all take the same dollars from the same small cabal of billionaires.

I guess Pelosi thinks she has a case here, either in the transcripts or regarding individuals close to this case, and as Conon says wants some testimony on the record to set up a "misleading Congress" gotcha moment.

So I read online today, the even if the impeachment will go nowhere in terms of getting rid of Mr. Trump. The process itself can significantly speed up the investigation process of the POTUS. In other words, the impeachment process will force a public trial that will give significant powers to Congress to investigate Trump. That in itself would be useful for the next election. It's clear that the Justice department is compromised and cannot be trusted to keep the POTUS in check, so... it's up to Congress to do so.

[alhoon]

I absolutely love how this guy is much more concerned with the "media" than with a blatant abuse of power by the POTUS.

+++

So I read online today, the even if the impeachment will go nowhere in terms of getting rid of Mr. Trump. The process itself can significantly speed up the investigation process of the POTUS. In other words, the impeachment process will force a public trial that will give significant powers to Congress to investigate Trump. That in itself would be useful for the next election. It's clear that the Justice department is compromised and cannot be trusted to keep the POTUS in check, so... it's up to Congress to do so.

So, it was never about the Ukraine call, but an effort and an excuse from house democrats to get the tools to investigate Trump during an election year and feed bad things they find to the public.
In short, an abuse of the system by the democrats and an abuse of power from the speaker of the house.

For someone that just called out someone for caring more about the media than abuse of power by the POTUS, you don't seem very concerned about the abuse of power by the Speaker to investigate an opponent.

[Cope]

I absolutely love how this guy is much more concerned with the "media" than with a blatant abuse of power by the POTUS.

And I absolutely love how you've resorted to referring to me in the third person

[Love Mountain]

So, it was never about the Ukraine call, but an effort and an excuse from house democrats to get the tools to investigate Trump during an election year and feed bad things they find to the public.
In short, an abuse of the system by the democrats and an abuse of power from the speaker of the house.

You realize you don’t need an “excuse” to start an impeachment?

For someone that just called out someone for caring more about the media than abuse of power by the POTUS, you don't seem very concerned about the abuse of power by the Speaker to investigate an opponent.

The speaker isn’t running for President, but okay I see your point. Let me ask you this, by your logic, was investigating Nixon wrong?

And I absolutely love how you've resorted to referring to me in the third person

Not even trying, probably because you don’t have anything.

[Katsumoto]

So, it was never about the Ukraine call, but an effort and an excuse from house democrats to get the tools to investigate Trump during an election year and feed bad things they find to the public.
In short, an abuse of the system by the democrats and an abuse of power from the speaker of the house.

How the heck is Democrats using their constitutional powers of oversight to reveal 'bad things' to the public an abuse of power? The public should surely know about these bad things? And the reason Democrats are even having to resort to impeachment to get these tools is because Trump literally declared he's fighting 'all the subpoenas'. Come on, man.

[Big War Bird]

How the heck is Trump abusing his power to expose bad things done by Joe Biden? Any investigation on Trump here has to start with an examination of the Bidens. And that’s a real problem for democrats. Either they have to cover the same ground Trump was trodding, thereby validating Trumps concerns, or ignore The Biden’s and look entirely partisan and corrupt themselves.

[Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ]

Speaker Pelosi initiated this only now because she knows this won't pass in the Senate, with the most likely reason being Trump's dirt digging on Biden.
He's the Democratic Party establishment favorite and they can't allow these kinds of attack on him. Pointless move, however if it somehow succeeds, President Pence might be better at getting things done without getting caught if engaged in ethically questionable activities or causing too much ruckus from the Democrats. Of course Pence would have to be "re"-elected after his turn ends to make an impact.

[Big War Bird]

Whistleblower Complaint is out

[athanaric]

Speaker Pelosi initiated this only now because she knows this won't pass in the Senate, with the most likely reason being Trump's dirt digging on Biden.
He's the Democratic Party establishment favorite and they can't allow these kinds of attack on him. Pointless move, however if it somehow succeeds, President Pence might be better at getting things done without getting caught if engaged in ethically questionable activities or causing too much ruckus from the Democrats. Of course Pence would have to be "re"-elected after his turn ends to make an impact.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm thinking it could also be a genius move to get rid of Trump and Biden at the same time. AFAIK someone like Chief Warren could profit from this.

[Cope]

It's just getting embarrassing now; this wouldn't even be admissible in small claims court.

Nunes' summary is apt:

"I want to congratulate the Democrats on the rollout of their latest information warfare operation against the President and their extraordinary ability to once again enlist the mainstream media in their campaign".

[Big War Bird]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm thinking it could also be a genius move to get rid of Trump and Biden at the same time. AFAIK someone like Chief Warren could profit from this.

I think Biden is toast, he can't explain how his no account son keeps getting money from all the wrong people. Either he is an oblivious fool or he is corrupt himself. I think it is more the former.

[alhoon]

You realize you don’t need an “excuse” to start an impeachment?

The speaker isn’t running for President, but okay I see your point. Let me ask you this, by your logic, was investigating Nixon wrong?

You don't legally need an excuse. As a political move (which it is) it requires an excuse. About Nixon, I don't think it was wrong but I don't see the two cases as similar.
What I see is that the democrats use their power to go after the POTUS, grasping on non-existing issues ... just because they can. And I think this will backfire.

How the heck is Democrats using their constitutional powers of oversight to reveal 'bad things' to the public an abuse of power? The public should surely know about these bad things? And the reason Democrats are even having to resort to impeachment to get these tools is because Trump literally declared he's fighting 'all the subpoenas'. Come on, man.

While you have a point Katsumoto, the democrats won't go for things that are indeed, unquestionably bad. If they do find such things, and release them, it would be fine.
However, they will go for things that can be made to appear bad, or are bad according to them. They can also cause headaches with interruptions and interference to cause delays and obstruction.