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Thread: Silly Suggestion: Petition for a Historical-Realistic Script

  1. #1

    Default Silly Suggestion: Petition for a Historical-Realistic Script

    But the suggestion ain't so silly. Cause I'm hearin about these changes you want for the script, Quintus, and I don't think it's no laughing matter! You're trying to make the game more difficult for the player but it ain't about realism, Barborum's main quest.

    It can't be true to historical reality unless you give the player real options to prevent random uprisings from happening - as was fundamental to government in the ancient world

    That you could prevent these random rebellions of your subject and keep their loyalty by agreement was the reason for every city constitution in the Hellenistic kingdoms; the reason for the Roman Empire and every moral-political debate ever witnessed by Cicero; the virtue in the entire Persian theory of politics; and frankly the lifeblood of all German myth. The impetus to conciliate potential rivals and strike their friendship was basic to diplomacy - and if anything, savagery was predicated by insult and disgust - the expectation was loyalty

    You gotta add either some kind of building that reduces income but blocks the script in the region, or I guess some scripted means of paying a cost like, I don't know, money or a number of units, or something that represents the effort of ameliorating the local powers' grievances and securing their loyalty. Or I don't know man...if you want to simulate the danger of rebellion against your rule then make a scripted dive in public order that can randomly strike your settlements - then you have the realistic chance to try and head the rebellion off if you can gather enough troops. If it's a random percent public order loss then you can have it so that one or two of the highest bracketed values are essentially unstoppable - that would account for what I think is probably your principle counter-argument: that you can't always see these rebellions coming.

    Maybe so, but that wasn't what every rebellion was like. Some of them you could. So, whether it's a building that lowers your risk, like a kind of investment in intrigue and informants in that city, or something else, I don't know - but it won't be realistic unless you're taking account of your ruler's capacity to defuse the rebellion.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Silly Suggestion: Petition for a Historical-Realistic Script

    I wonder if it could be tied up with law, would give you more reasons to build those strategic fortifications and waystations and garrisons buildings. However, I have no idea how much work that would be to implement, or even if it's possible, or even if something like that is already being implemented. I suppose theoretically these kinds of calculations could also take into account unrest, public order, your governor's command, confidence, loyalty and influence (an inept, disloyal general must seem like an easier target), the size of the garrison, the government type in the region (client states must have had more independence movements than homeland regions) etc., but that does sound like a lot to ask from volunteer modding team working with a game not quite supposed to be doing what they're trying to make it do.

  3. #3
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Silly Suggestion: Petition for a Historical-Realistic Script

    The script replaces the hardcoded "bandit" spawn (which can't be turned off entirely, it's down to its lowest possible setting which is very rare indeed) with smaller, but better-led stacks. They're not just "revolts", in many regions they represent cross-border attacks from highlanders and other not-subdued peoples, or even those from off the map.

    Also note they don't just affect the player, but can appear anywhere. The AI will have to deal with them as well. Furthermore, they don't happen in the faction's homeland province, when they are in control.

    They are rare and have a cooldown on them so each time they happen there's a minimum period in which they are quiescent.

  4. #4
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: Silly Suggestion: Petition for a Historical-Realistic Script

    Well, I have been testing for the team for months already and must have around 400 hours of playtesting since the new rebel spawn script was implemented. All I can say is that, when I started testing, I felt that there were too few spawns compared with the previous "bandit" spawn. However, after much more testing, I got used to it and they are very good indeed. As Quintus said, they represent not just revolts but also not-subdued peoples which is mostly important when you conquer a new region because before, you would conquer it and barely have any problem in the region, now you have a real chance of dealing with big uprisings which is a lot more realistic. Even your homeland regions aren't safe anymore as they can be attacked and conquered by rebels, something that has happened to me quite a few times but is easily solved by placing good garrisons in your settlements (and not leaving just two units there like I did before).

    Besides that, they provide good opportunities for your armies and Generals to gain more experience and the same applies for the other factions, so that you end up facing more experienced enemy armies.

    You will experience it when the new patch is released but overall, it is a big improvement to the previous bandit spawn.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Silly Suggestion: Petition for a Historical-Realistic Script

    I am glad to hear this. The total war games have been FAR far to easy ever since they removed civil wars back in medieval 1 total war. Even as Pontos and other Nigh impossible factions you rush a few cities. And boom you have them under control for ever and you dont even have to worry about losing them if you are sending your major army to fight a foreign war. I would hope based on region we can have multiple ethnic groups in the civil war revolts. (eastern infantry led by a Hellenistic elite unit)

  6. #6
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Silly Suggestion: Petition for a Historical-Realistic Script

    Quote Originally Posted by moisesjns View Post
    I am glad to hear this. The total war games have been FAR far to easy ever since they removed civil wars back in medieval 1 total war. Even as Pontos and other Nigh impossible factions you rush a few cities. And boom you have them under control for ever and you dont even have to worry about losing them if you are sending your major army to fight a foreign war. I would hope based on region we can have multiple ethnic groups in the civil war revolts. (eastern infantry led by a Hellenistic elite unit)
    As an example, here is Paphlagonia (each province has it's own mix of spawns):

    Code:
            ; Paphlagonia
            if I_EventCounter RisingSpawn105 > 24    ; cooldown has ended
                generate_random_counter sett_105_rising 1 50
                if I_EventCounter sett_105_rising < 2   ; 2% chance
                    spawn_army
                        faction slave, sub_faction f_boii
                        character	random_name, named character, age 30, x 240, y 173, portrait celt2
                        traits  SlaveBoiiModel 1 , CommandExperience 2, GoodLeader 1, HaleAndHearty 2, TurnsAlive 2
                        unit		celtic cavalry eponados		exp 4 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                        unit		celtic infantry galatian raiders	exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                        unit		celtic infantry galatian raiders	exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                        unit		celtic infantry spearman	exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                        unit		celtic infantry skirmisher	exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                    end
                    set_event_counter RisingSpawn105 0 ; resetting cooldown
                end_if
                if I_EventCounter sett_105_rising = 20 ; 2% chance
                    spawn_army
                        faction slave, sub_faction f_pergamon
                        character	random_name, named character, age 30, x 234, y 174, portrait egreek3
                        traits  CommandExperience 2, GoodLeader 1, HaleAndHearty 2, TurnsAlive 2
                        unit		hellenistic cavalry hippakontistai		exp 4 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                        unit		hellenistic infantry hemithorakitai	exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                        unit		hellenistic infantry hemithorakitai	exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                        unit		hellenistic infantry hemithorakitai	exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                        unit		hellenistic infantry akontistai	exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                    end
                    set_event_counter RisingSpawn105 0 ; resetting cooldown
                end_if
                if I_EventCounter sett_105_rising > 49 ; 2% chance
                    spawn_army
                        faction slave, sub_faction f_pontos
                        character	random_name, named character, age 30, x 241, y 177, portrait east1
                        traits  SlavePahlavaModel 1 , CommandExperience 3, GoodDefender 1, GoodLeader 1, HaleAndHearty 2, TurnsAlive 2
                        unit		eastern cavalry aspet hetselazor		exp 4 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                        unit		eastern cavalry nizakahar ayrudzi		exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                        unit		celtic infantry galatian raiders	exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                        unit		eastern infantry kavakaza sparabara 	exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                        unit		eastern infantry kavakaza sparabara 	exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                        unit		eastern infantry anatolikoi phyletai	exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                        unit		eastern infantry anatolikoi phyletai	exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                        unit		eastern infantry thanvare kavakaza		exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                    end
                    if I_SettlementOwner sett_105 != slave
                        add_settlement_turmoil sett_105 2              ; unrest in settlement
                    end_if
                    set_event_counter RisingSpawn105 0 ; resetting cooldown
                end_if
            end_if
    The first is a Galatian incursion, the second a rising of one of the Greek cities, the third Anatolian highlanders.

    On the mechanics side of things, there is cumulatively a 6% chance every turn of one of the three spawning - but there's also a 25-turn cooldown from the last spawn (so you will never get a different one appearing shortly after another). That averages one spawn every 40 turns or so.
    Last edited by QuintusSertorius; September 24, 2019 at 03:16 AM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Silly Suggestion: Petition for a Historical-Realistic Script

    Awesome! i might modify this to my own taste. I think 40 turns might be a little to long, but testing it will show. I also think adding in at least 1-3 experience for the infantry would be very beneficial, as those who do not have Lusitanios Submmod for increased general hit points Will still easily route the enemy army. Also i think more experience makes the infantry have better formation does it not? Either way this will be a great addition.

  8. #8
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Silly Suggestion: Petition for a Historical-Realistic Script

    Experience doesn't add hit points, though it does boost morale. The commanders of those stacks have additional hit points with the HaleandHearty trait.

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