Were ancient Greeks predominately light skinned?

[alhoon]

Still, I doubt he can surpass al-Douri, who looks more like a British investor in London, instead of an unrepentant Iraqi Baathist and the current head of the Naqshbandi Order.

There's no way that guy is a real Iraqi. He clearly is the descendant of an English or French soldier and his grandmother hid the affair or something. I hope I don't offend anyone in his religious order, but this guy's grandfather is not who he thinks he is.
Unless you accidentally linked the wrong image. Or perhaps he has a rare skin condition? Being part-albino or something?

Maybe, which would be more likely than some descendant of a Varangian. To be honest a large minority of Greeks simply have red hair, like the comedian and actor Zach Galafianakis, and some are just straight up blonde, like the American media giant Arianna Stassinopoulos Huffington. These traits clearly go back to antiquity as proven not just by artworks like mosaics and frescoes depicting Greeks, but even writings by ancient Greek authors, stretching as far back as Homer. For that matter the Greeks' stereotypical view of Thracians was that they were all red-heads with blue eyes and we know from aforementioned Greek authors that tens of thousands of Thracians lived in and around the city-state of Athens alone. Also, Greek royal houses and nobility frequently intermarried with their Thracian and Illyrian counterparts.

For instance, of his many wives (most of whom were Greek), Philip II of Macedon was married to Meda of Odessos, a Thracian queen, and Audata, an Illyrian queen. I would bet 50 drachmae that both women either had red or blonde hair, or at the very least blondish and reddish hair over brunette.

Galifianakis is half Scottish. That's where the red hair probably comes from. For Stassinopoulou I would agree with the ones saying that she bleaches her hair.

Also: Thracians count as Greeks? I think we don't consider the ancient people that inhabited Thrace and eastern Balkans and Black Sea as Greeks but they eventually mixed with us (And the Huns, the Romans, the Mongols etc around the Black Sea). We don't consider Pomaks as Greeks either.
However, I am not very well versed in Anthropogeography or who counts as what.

[sumskilz]

There's no way that guy is a real Iraqi. He clearly is the descendant of an English or French soldier and his grandmother hid the affair or something. I hope I don't offend anyone in his religious order, but this guy's grandfather is not who he thinks he is.

Other than his complexion, he looks phenotypically Iraqi to me. I actually doubt that's due to recent non-local ancestry, because for that to happen genetically, it would have had to come from both parents. Samaritan gingers are relatively common, and genetic evidence confirms their tradition of endogamy going back 2,500 years. Several of the mutations responsible for that particular coloration can be seen at low levels in ancient Near Eastern and Southern European DNA samples. It's just a matter of chance recombination that a particular individual ends up with enough of them to result in the ginger phenotype when the responsible genes are at a low frequency in the greater population. In contrast to East Asians or sub-Saharan Africans who actually have black hair usually, I'd say having a slight reddish tint to very dark hair is the norm rather than the exception in MENA populations, which is a result of the existence of these mutations at lower frequencies.

[Ludicus]

The lady with the wide eyes is literally Queen Berenice II of Ptolemaic Egypt, a Macedonian Greek whose father was Magas of Cyrene.

I'm surprised nobody yet has mentioned Cleopatra

[Roma_Victrix]

Galifianakis is half Scottish. That's where the red hair probably comes from.

Maybe. Maybe not. I literally just showed on the previous page a bunch of Greeks in Greece decked out in Greek national football gear and flags who have either red or blondish red hair. It's clearly a phenotype that floats around in Greece, albeit in the minority since most Greeks are brunette and black haired, like most Italians. But just like Italians (especially northern Italians), a minority have light colored hair.

For Stassinopoulou I would agree with the ones saying that she bleaches her hair.

Okay, not a perfect example, although there are other prominent ones like Jennifer Aniston and Amy Sedaris. Mind you, both those actresses have a bit of non-Greek ancestry like English, but Aniston is actually Greek on both sides of her family. Her facial features are also very Greek. I see her as one of the Caryatids.

Also: Thracians count as Greeks? I think we don't consider the ancient people that inhabited Thrace and eastern Balkans and Black Sea as Greeks but they eventually mixed with us (And the Huns, the Romans, the Mongols etc around the Black Sea). We don't consider Pomaks as Greeks either.
However, I am not very well versed in Anthropogeography or who counts as what.

I wasn't strictly talking about Thrace, even though several Greek city-states existed in Thrace and along that western coast of the Black Sea, in modern-day Bulgaria and Romania. I was also talking about the tens of thousands of Thracians who lived in Greece and naturally intermarried with Greeks over time. That would at least help to explain how some Greeks are redheaded or have reddish brown hair (the type you see among some Middle Easterners as well).

There's an argument to be made that most Greeks have hair like the Ancient Aliens guy, Giorgio A. Tsoukalos:



In either case light or dark hair has little to do with skin color or skin tone, and we've already pretty much answered that question for the OP. Greeks are suntanned southern Europeans and bronzed Mediterranean folk who can have light skin but they're not exactly Nordic or northern European looking. I think that's agreeable to all parties.

I'm surprised nobody yet has mentioned Cleopatra

Heh! Good point. Judging by Roman frescoes from Pompeii and Herculaneum, Cleopatra VII Philopator was likely a redhead or just a reddish brunette, which is more likely for a Greek than full ginger. Never go full ginger, unless you're Irish! Then it's okay.

[alhoon]

Oh, I know we have redheads and brunettes, but they are rare. One of my colleagues could pass for a Scottish girl from her colors and she has been from rural Northern Greece for several generations. Another one, born in Lasithi (you know the most DNA-Greeks of the Greeks) and he has red hair too.

[Roma_Victrix]

Oh, I know we have redheads and brunettes, but they are rare. One of my colleagues could pass for a Scottish girl from her colors and she has been from rural Northern Greece for several generations. Another one, born in Lasithi (you know the most DNA-Greeks of the Greeks) and he has red hair too.

Sounds about right considering the girls in this video:

[Morifea]

@Roma_Victrix: Greek Ginger chicks dancing around in School-Girl dresses.... no we know your filthy desires

[Ludicus]

Color Perception Across Cultures – Do You See What I See? - SAPIENS

..In the end, says Majid, the debate about color is really a debate about how we look at the spectrum of human cultures. "We are all really similar, but we want to celebrate what’s unique about us"

-------
A student walks past a college notice board at Yale,





Terra Incognita: America's poisonous obsession with race - Opinion The Jerusalem Post SETH J. FRANTZMAN

If America is becoming more different shades of brown than ever before, why is it always trying to talk about “white people” more than ever before and more about “white privilege” than at any time in the past decades? Because American popular culture doesn’t like nuance.
Oddly, in an America where many “white” people are not that white, there hasn’t been a rush of white people to flee whiteness and claim to be people of color.

Ouch.

[Roma_Victrix]

Am American. Can confirm. We have stupid ideas about race and ethnicity in general. Most people here still don't seem to understand that "Hispanic" and "Latino" are not skin colors or races, for example, and that there are white (European), black (African), brown (Amerindian), Asian, and mixed race Hispanics of various backgrounds. Not every Latino is a Miami Cuban bar owner or a five-foot tall Mexican mowing your lawn. And no, people in Spain do not eat Mexican food as their indigenous cuisine.

THEY HAVE TAPAS!!!

[Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ]

Color Perception Across Cultures – Do You See What I See? - SAPIENS

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

-------
A student walks past a college notice board at Yale,





Terra Incognita: America's poisonous obsession with race - Opinion The Jerusalem Post SETH J. FRANTZMAN


Ouch.

First thing, I don't know... they look... different shade of barbarian to me.
Second, that first site had a popup saying "hey human, did you know we had a podcast'" - How dare they assume my species?
Third, for how long can this pointless thread go on, everybody knows that ancient Greek were mixed, some were metallic-skinned, others marble-skinned.

[Cyclops]

... everybody knows that ancient Greek were mixed, some were metallic-skinned, others marble-skinned.

Yep even the Nords agree...

[Timoleon of Korinthos]

How on earth is Roma Victrix aware of the existence of Antypas (trash/bouzouki pop) and in particular that song, I mean, I am Greek and I had never heard of it, neither watched that video-clip obviously, LMFAO

[Kyriakos]

I λike the description "trash-bouzouki"

He really sucks and should just go away

[Timoleon of Korinthos]

One needs to speak Greek to understand the level of ridiculous kitsch of the lyrics, which is in tune with the music and the aesthetics of this type of "recreation" in general. That having been said, I found that song surprisingly pleasant and uplifting, maybe because of the girls, maybe because nostalgia has got the better of me after all these years, I don't know!

[Kyriakos]

One needs to speak Greek to understand the level of ridiculous kitsch of the lyrics, which is in tune with the music and the aesthetics of this type of "recreation" in general. That having been said, I found that song surprisingly pleasant and uplifting, maybe because of the girls, maybe because nostalgia has got the better of me after all these years, I don't know!

There is also millennial greek rap, like this. The guy claims he lives the thug life in... central Thessalonike

[Timoleon of Korinthos]

Still not as ridiculous as Swiss wiggers pretending to be gangsta in Zurich, I get a different Spotify ad from this every week and I don't think I have ever liked a rap song in my life wtf?

[Roma_Victrix]

@Roma_Victrix: Greek Ginger chicks dancing around in School-Girl dresses.... no we know your filthy desires

Hey, it's not my fault if they've been naughty, very bad, and need lots of spanking. That's on their heads!

Third, for how long can this pointless thread go on, everybody knows that ancient Greek were mixed, some were metallic-skinned, others marble-skinned.

Come on, man, Greeks had a wider range of skin tones than that, considering the colorful varieties of ceramic terracotta Tanagra figurines, black figure, red figure, white ground technique pottery, etc.

How on earth is Roma Victrix aware of the existence of Antypas (trash/bouzouki pop) and in particular that song, I mean, I am Greek and I had never heard of it, neither watched that video-clip obviously, LMFAO

I genuinely forget how I came across it but I remember someone sharing it with me online for some random reason like a year ago, maybe on Twitter? There's a couple Greek dudes I talk to on there about history and in the process of joking around I think he shared that video. The cheesiness of it stuck with me ever since! The guy seriously looks like the Greek version of Silvio Berlusconi, only more shriveled by time.

There is also millennial greek rap, like this. The guy claims he lives the thug life in... central Thessalonike

Kyriakos, I hold you personally responsible for this video, it was full of cringe, and I command you to burn it at once!

[Timoleon of Korinthos]

I genuinely forget how I came across it but I remember someone sharing it with me online for some random reason like a year ago, maybe on Twitter? There's a couple Greek dudes I talk to on there about history and in the process of joking around I think he shared that video. The cheesiness of it stuck with me ever since! The guy seriously looks like the Greek version of Silvio Berlusconi, only more shriveled by time.

Okay, it's good that you are able to realize the trashy nature of the "artist" and the cheesiness of the song despite the language barrier (or can you speak Greek?), otherwise it would be embarrassing for us.