View Poll Results: What is your favourite Hellenic or Punic Culture?

Voters
11. You may not vote on this poll
  • Black Seas Colonies

    1 9.09%
  • Carthage

    2 18.18%
  • Greek States

    2 18.18%
  • Successor Kingdoms

    6 54.55%
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Thread: Wiki Poll 2: “What is your favourite Hellenic or Punic Culture?”

  1. #1
    Welsh Dragon's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Wiki Poll 2: “What is your favourite Hellenic or Punic Culture?”

    Hello and welcome. With the announcement of Troy: A Total War Saga taking Total War back to the age of the ancient Greeks, it seems a good time to post the next of our occasional Wiki Polls, which happens to have a Greek theme. If you're new to these or just need a reminder, these polls are one way the community can help to contribute to our expansion of Total War Center Wiki's Rome 2 section, as well as guiding the direction we will be taking.

    Wiki Poll 1 Results and Impact
    In our first poll back in April/May we looked at the four broad Cultural Groups which make up all the factions of Rome 2. Romans, Barbarians, Easterners, and Hellenics all received votes, with the final result coming down to a close fought fight between Legionaries and Hoplites. But in the end, it was the Hellenic Cultural Group which won by the narrowest of margins, a single vote.

    Because of your votes, the Hellenic cultures have been the first to receive their Tier 1 Cultural pages. These pages will be expanded in future, but already they give an overview of each culture's traits, the factions within them, and highlighting key features about their gameplay and history. You can find links to them, as well as the first of the non-Hellenic pages, on our new Cultures Category Page here. I hope you will take a moment to take a look.


    But on to our second poll. This time around we're delving a little deeper, by looking at each of the Cultures which make up the Hellenic group. Though they share some similarities, such as the use of Hoplites and/or Pikes, they are also different.

    I'm also including a short survey (don't worry it's only three questions,) to gather further information on these cultures. Though you don't have to complete the survey to vote, doing so will help with writing and updating the wiki pages.

    So this times question is:

    “What is your favourite Hellenic or Punic Culture?”

    The four Hellenic or Punic Cultures are:

    1. Black Seas Colonies
    This includes the playable factions Cimmeria, Colchis and Pergamon in the Grand Campaign.

    2. Carthage
    This includes the playable factions of Carthage (Barcid, Hannoid and Magonoid Dynasties) in the Grand Campaign; Carthage in Hannibal at the Gates; and the non-playable but powerful Carthage in Rise of the Republic.

    3. Greek States
    This includes the playable factions of Athens, Epirus, Massilia, Sparta and Syracuse in the Grand Campaign; Syracuse in Hannibal at the Gates; Athenai, Boiotian League, Korinthos, and Sparta in Wrath of Sparta; and Syracuse and Taras in Rise of the Republic.

    4. Successor Kingdoms
    This includes the playable faction of Baktria, Egypt, Macedon and the Seleucid Kingdom in Grand Campaign; and Egypt in Imperator Augustus.


    The Greek way of thinking and fighting spread far and wide in the ancient world, so you have several options to choose from. They range from the heirs to Alexander, to the warring states of Greece, to Greek colonies on the edge of civilisation and even the Punic forces of Carthage. But which is your favourite?

    And please also take a moment to fill out the survey below. Any information you can share will help to build these pages, and further expand the wiki.

    Hellenic Gameplay Survey:

    1. What gameplay features do you like about the culture you chose (e.g. playstyle, cultural traits, factions, units etc?) This can be playing as them or fighting against them.
    2. What gameplay features do you dislike about the culture you chose (e.g. playstyle, cultural traits, factions, units etc?) This can be playing as them or fighting against them.
    3. What advice would you give to a new player whose playing as or fighting against this culture?



    A word on mods:
    Mod users are also welcome to take part in the poll and contribute to the discussion, but the Wiki team asks that if anything in your comments is mod-specific, you clearly state this when posting please. Thank you.

    *

    Whichever culture wins will be the first to receive their Tier 1 faction pages, will be prioritised for their Tier 2 Culture pages, as well as deciding which Factions we'll be choosing from for the next poll.

    Please be sure to vote, and if you can any contributions to the survey will be very much appreciated. Thank you.

    All the Best,

    Welsh Dragon (and the Wiki Team.)

  2. #2

    Default Re: Wiki Poll 2: “What is your favourite Hellenic or Punic Culture?”

    Oof, this question is a tall order. I enjoy all of these factions almost equally. Does Pontus not count? They are Hellenic in the campaign as well as using a majority of Greek troops. If they don't then I'll have to go with the Successor Kingdoms; there's just so much variety among the four and each one presents a different challenge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Welsh Dragon View Post

    Hellenic Gameplay Survey:

    1. What gameplay features do you like about the culture you chose (e.g. playstyle, cultural traits, factions, units etc?) This can be playing as them or fighting against them.
    2. What gameplay features do you dislike about the culture you chose (e.g. playstyle, cultural traits, factions, units etc?) This can be playing as them or fighting against them.
    3. What advice would you give to a new player whose playing as or fighting against this culture?

    1. The Successor states have the widest rosters of the Hellenic factions and each have their own flavor. Pikes and hoplites are always a blast to use, and the Peltast family is such a game changer of a unit. Their colors are also very identifiable and stand out. I think they are balanced in that they have no strong archers or slingers that aren't mercenaries (for the most part) so you need to really focus on the short range game with your high defensive units and Peltasts.
    2. You've got a pretty boring late game as the SK, particularly Egypt and the Seleucids, as they have the best top tier units after Rome. No real challenge unless fighting an AI faction on the same tier level.
    3. Playing as: really depends on the faction you're playing as, but for a general head start always research boiling oil ASAP and use hammer/anvil tactics with your pikes/hoplites and cavalry/javelins in your early battles. Hellenic factions at base are very meat and potatoes when it comes to army composition. Pike units in a town defense are almost OP: just block off a chokepoint and leave them in pikewall formation. When fighting against SKs, fight fire with fire and have plenty of cavalry to take out their ranged units. Or, if you don't have reliable cavalry, get some solid sword units and some shock units to break up their formations or flank them.

  3. #3
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: Wiki Poll 2: “What is your favourite Hellenic or Punic Culture?”

    While I really enjoyed campaigns as Cimmeria and Syracuse, I chose Carthage in the poll.

    What gameplay features do you like about the culture you chose (e.g. playstyle, cultural traits, factions, units etc?) This can be playing as them or fighting against them.

    I like the challenge of a limited roster combined with the opportunity to compensate for this using Carthage's cheaper mercenaries as well as levy units from client states. I enjoy their powerful selection of faction mercenary units (recruitable in regions you hold) and the ability to recruit different mercenary units from different parts of the map. Their immunity to desert attrition is nice to have, using 'General Summer' against your enemies in the same way that Russia used 'General Winter' against invaders such as Napoleon. I particularly enjoy the challenge of their starting position - having several regions but widely spread and vulnerable to attack, especially when you're in between an expansionist Rome (with their swordsmen who can beat the hoplite and peltasts armies of Carthage) and the fast-moving raiders of the desert kingdoms.

    What gameplay features do you dislike about the culture you chose (e.g. playstyle, cultural traits, factions, units etc?) This can be playing as them or fighting against them.

    I think it would be interesing if Carthage's starting client states had slightly different rosters, so Carthage could levy units which you can't normally recruit. However, this provides an incentive for Carthage to acquire new client states.

    What advice would you give to a new player whose playing as or fighting against this culture?

    Playing as Carthage: I'd suggest balancing your early campaign between fighting defensively against Rome and Syracuse, while expanding in Iberia as fast as you can. Don't forget to build temples in regions you capture, because you'll usually suffer a big cultural differences penalty to public order when you expand. If you try to hold all of your starting regions, you may find yourself fighting a losing war of attrition against Rome. You may need to choose which cities to hold. For example, I build a defensive army in Lilybeaum while allowing Karalis to fall to Rome. Not defending Karalis means that I can spend more money on troops to expand in Iberia - it's better to use an army to successfuly capture several regions than to use that army to try to defend one region (Karalis), especially if Rome attacks it with a legion that you can't defeat. Turn some defeated enemies into client states, leave an army in their territory for 10 to 20 turns and check each turn to see which levy units are available. This can be a cheap (cheaper than mercenaries) way to expand your roster.

    Fighting Carthage: Attack before they attack you! Carthage has access to some of the most powerful mercenary units in the game, so in turns when they attack, their armies can suddenly become much stronger. Bring the right tools! Carthage's early campaign armies rely on hoplites and peltasts (although they have access to swordsmen mercenaries in their own regions and they can recruit Libyan swordsmen from their barracks in the late campaign). This means that their main infantry line are super-heavy infantry. Super-heavy infantry are vulnerable to artillery because they're slow. They're also vulnerable to ranged fire from the flanks and rear. However, Carthage can bring good-quality cavalry and lots of spearmen, so they can run down your skirmishers with their horsemen and they have plenty of ways to remove your cavalry from the battlefield. If they bring elephants, hit them with ranged fire (if you bring javelin-throwers, be careful not to fire all of your javelins against Carthage's skirmishers or infantry, save them for the elephants).
    Last edited by Alwyn; September 21, 2019 at 07:37 AM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Wiki Poll 2: “What is your favourite Hellenic or Punic Culture?”

    1. Carthage is a true challenge for me. Surrounded by enemies, from the Romans to Iberia and even your own vassal, and with few friends. Your economy is strong, but you'll be kissing that bye in a few turns. Unlike Tylis, you don't have any good counters to your enemies in early in your roster. You don't have strong swords to fight off Roman swordsmen nor do you have particularly good skirmishers that can cut through Iberians. You are stuck with crappy hoplites and equally poor javelinmen, and even when you get Carthaginian Hoplites, you aren't in much better shape. However, then the most iconic part of the Carthaginian myth comes into play.

    Carthage likes mercenaries. Lots of mercenaries. From crappy Iberian Swordsmen and Italian Spearmen to the powerful Noble Fighters and Numidian Noble Cavalry, you have a tool for every occasion.
    Syracuse has a stack of hoplites and is just outside Lilybauem? No problem, grab some Scutarii and march on them.
    Rome has a bunch of Hastai? They don't stand a chance against elephants and noble fighters.
    Some Iberians are knocking on your door? Great, introduce them to Cretan Archers and some heavy cavalry.

    And thats not even the best part. After you beat back the Romans and subdue Iberia and Africa, you are in an excellent position. You have become the dominant power in the world, and can do anything. You can stay in Carthage and build an economy that could buy an entire country. You can expand out aggressively and subjugate everyone. You can build a wooden wall and sit happily in the safety of North Africa. The world is yours, you just have to seize the chance.

    2. Nova Carthago and Libya are about as useful as a pebble in a sword fight. Rarely will they come to your aid. Nova Carthago is more likely to lose its land to Numidia and Iberians than it is to survive beyond turn 20, and Libya is perfectly content with twiddling their thumbs while Carthage is under siege.

    3. Playing as Carthage, I prefer to give up Lilybaeum to Syracuse and build a wooden wall. Naval power can keep Africa safe from Roman stacks while you unite it under Punic strength, and also let you raid the enemy coast while your armies eventually push up the Italian peninsula. Iberia is also an important choice. On turn 1, you can choose to give it up and pull back to Fortress Africa or try to break the Turdentani and secure your foothold on the peninsula. If you can't break the Turds quick enough, you might invest too much in a region that will inevitably turn against you sooner or later. Your success is also dependent on Nova Carthago, as they will often times kill the rebels that frequently appear. If they are pushed off the peninsula, rarely will they push back. I also recommend killing Libya to give yourself more income when you unite the province.

    When playing against them, don't rush. Time is on your side. Other factions will inevitably eat away at them and their client states, making them pretty easy pickings. Often times, I see Syracuse seize Carthage itself pretty quickly. Killing them in battle is a simple affair. Their early troops stand little chance against most troops, and while they can get mercenaries, they are rarely ever enough to win a battle singlehandedly.

  5. #5
    Welsh Dragon's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: Wiki Poll 2: “What is your favourite Hellenic or Punic Culture?”

    Hi everyone,

    A big thank you to everyone who has voted so far, and if you haven't yet, please do. Special mention goes to LuckyPistol, Alwyn and OathswornOfGaul for also filing in my short survey. Whether you've voted yet or not, please take a look at the three questions and contribute if you can. Any information you provide will help with updating each Culture's pages to be helpful for other players.

    One other matter. Unfortunately due to an error on my part when setting up the poll, the names of voters are not being displayed to me. So if people could reply to this thread letting me know who they voted for, that would be very much appreciated, thank you. As an added bonus it will also allow me to provide +rep to each of you once the poll has closed.

    Speaking of the survey, here's my answers.

    *

    I voted Black Seas Colonies.

    1. What gameplay features do you like about the culture you chose (e.g. playstyle, cultural traits, factions, units etc?) This can be playing as them or fighting against them.

    Firstly I'll say I have a soft spot for hybrid factions. When it comes to the unit rosters, I really enjoy the combination of the more defensive Greek units with the more aggressive Barbarian ones, to create an interesting and adaptable playstyle while still being at heart Greek and still being tight rosters (as I prefer those to the numerous units of say Rome.) As the rosters draw from the local cultures, such as Nomadic Barbarians or Easterners, I also get to use units I might not otherwise normally use as I don't tend to play cavalry heavy factions.

    A particular favourite unit is Pergamon's Agema Spears, which combine a Greek style Theuros shield and spear combination, with a more Barbarian use of javelins for a very adaptable unit that's great on the flanks or in the centre.

    In terms of the campaign, I find the culture traits are particularly handy. A boost to morale is always welcome, even if it's only under certain circumstances. And having public order penalties from non-Greek culture slashed in half is very important given much of the territory you take isn't going to be natively Greek. Plus it fits the whole blended culture theme the Blacks Seas Colonies have.

    They also start off in interesting parts of the map, where you get to face a good variety of cultures in battle. There's a real feeling of being the bastions of civilisation against the barbarian and eastern hordes, which plays well with the Hellenic sense of pride and use of units such as Hoplites and Pikes which can form a strong defensive formation.

    2. What gameplay features do you dislike about the culture you chose (e.g. playstyle, cultural traits, factions, units etc?) This can be playing as them or fighting against them.

    The main thing I dislike about the Black Seas Colonies is that while each has a hybrid roster of Greek and “local” troops, the most interesting hybrid units (such as Pergamon's Agema Spears and Cimmeria's Scythian Hoplites) tend to be quite deep into the tech and build trees, usually requiring a Tier 3 or 4 barracks to recruit.

    They're also, unusually, some of the few factions I think actually lost something when CA overhauled Faction Traits to remove the negative ones from most factions. Having the tyrants of Cimmeria be more corrupt; the amateur soldiers of Pergamon pay more for their units; and the leaders of Colchis have a long standing animosity with other Greeks were nice pieces of storytelling which added to the flavour and gameplay of these factions.

    3. What advice would you give to a new player whose playing as or fighting against this culture?

    Playing as them, I would say remember you are Greeks, but you aren't just Greeks. Learn how best to use each type of unit, and to combine them for maximum effect. You have good armour and staying power in your Hoplites and Pikes, but you also have barbarian and eastern units which are agile and aggressive.

    Hoplites are good, but expensive, so mixing in some barbarian or easterner units can be a good way of having a strong core while keeping recruitment and upkeep costs down, allowing you to field more armies and invest in your settlements.
    And sooner or later you're going to face horse archers, which require a different army composition than the usual. A strong force of Hoplites to soak up arrow fire and fend off cavalry charges, backed up by slingers to do damage at maximum range can take apart a horse archer swarm if used right. Use command groups so you can easily order multiple slinger units to target a single horse archer unit at the click of a button, and if playing singleplayer use the time controls to play in slow motion at times, making micromanagement easier.

    Fighting against them, I would say be aware that because these cultures are hybrids, they may field armies with unexpected units. Tactics you might have had success with when fighting the Greeks may not work as well now you're fighting Greeks who can field other cultures units too.

    In general, be adaptable and not afraid to try new things and lose battles. You can learn more from a battle lost than a battle won, so look at why you lost and see if you can adapt your campaign strategies and battle tactics to counter it in future.

    And just generally have fun. You're playing a hybrid (or fighting against one,) so you can have some interesting and unusual armies, and try out things without having to commit to a specialist faction.

    *

    Thank you again to everyone taking part and helping to make the Total War Center wiki an even better resource for players.

    All the Best,

    Welsh Dragon.

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