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Thread: Total War Saga: TROY - general discussion

  1. #201

    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! (trailer, screens & campaign map video)

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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! (trailer, screens & campaign map video)

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    And we got yet again new blogpost about Troy:
    https://www.totalwar.com/blog/barter...he-bronze-age/
    The pictures are impressive done. CA does do a good job with the visuals. My interest in this game would be a mod that creates a historical game.
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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! (trailer, screens & campaign map video)

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    The pictures are impressive done. CA does do a good job with the visuals. My interest in this game would be a mod that creates a historical game.
    I could not aggree more with this if i tried!

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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! (trailer, screens & campaign map video)

    From the gameplay trailer I'm getting some serious Total War: Arena vibes from the unit movement. I didn't play 3K, how does it compare to that?
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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! (trailer, screens & campaign map video)

    No naval battles beacuse according to them "there's no enough info about the naval battles of the time".... on a ING ANCIENT GREEK GAME!!!!

    But sure, CA found plenty info about the life cycle of Minotaur and how they did battle until they went extinct in 40 B.C.
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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! (trailer, screens & campaign map video)

    Quote Originally Posted by King Athelstan View Post
    I didn't play 3K, how does it compare to that?
    Just a reskin I would say. From running animations to swinging swords everything is same. New weapon change ability is cool though.

  7. #207
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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! - general discussion

    I am surprised they didn't add Memnon the Ethiopian king with the current context. Maybe they are planning a BLM dlc.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memnon_(mythology)

    But so far, this is looking good.
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  8. #208

    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! - general discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Genava View Post
    I am surprised they didn't add Memnon the Ethiopian king with the current context. Maybe they are planning a BLM dlc.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memnon_(mythology)

    But so far, this is looking good.
    "Breaking news! Racism in Total War: Troy! Memnon, the leader of Black community killed by white aggressive xenophobic male!"

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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! - general discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarrr View Post
    "Breaking news! Racism in Total War: Troy! Memnon, the leader of Black community killed by white aggressive xenophobic male!"
    White aggressive male, surely since Achilles kills him. Xenophobic I don't think so.

    But honestly I prefer the inclusion of a real black figure of the Greek mythology instead of black-washing Achilles like in the BBC series.

    I don't think Memnon has been portrayed a single time in video games or in movies about Troy.
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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! - general discussion

    It was in Empire Earth greek campaign if I recall correctly.
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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! - general discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Baal View Post
    It was in Empire Earth greek campaign if I recall correctly.
    That's Memnon of Rhodes
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memnon_of_Rhodes
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  12. #212

    Default Total War Saga: TROY announced! - general discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Genava View Post
    White aggressive male, surely since Achilles kills him. Xenophobic I don't think so.
    Well, hard to say about Achilles but ancient Greeks with their Hellen-Barbarian dichotomy and some customs like xenelasia can be considered as xenophobic by modern standards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Genava View Post
    But honestly I prefer the inclusion of a real black figure of the Greek mythology instead of black-washing Achilles like in the BBC series.

    I don't think Memnon has been portrayed a single time in video games or in movies about Troy.
    Can we consider undoubtly Memnon as black(in vase painting he is depicted as white and as well as black)? Wasn't Memnon a son of Troyan prince Tithonos which was moved to ends of the earth by Hesperids?
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarrr View Post
    Wasn't Memnon a son of Troyan prince Tithonos which was moved to ends of the earth by Hesperids?
    I checked this and Hesperides didn't moved Memnon anywhere.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; June 18, 2020 at 11:14 AM. Reason: Merged.

  13. #213
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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! - general discussion

    For mythical figures, like all the named heroes that are mentioned in the Iliad, I don't think there's much point in trying to guess their complexion based on their ancestry. Unless their appearance is somewhere mentioned in the epic (like it does for Achilles), their skin colour can range from rosy pink to greenish yellow. Regarding xenophobia in the Mycenaean world, classical Greece is not very relevant.

    Still, even if we consider Pericles' Athens as our closest available example, in chronological and geographical terms, it would be a bit unfair to judge them as xenophobic. The dichotomy between barbarians and Greeks is mainly detected in specific authors, like Isocrates or the literature of the Second Sophistic, which does not necessarily reflect the mainstream views of your average Greek peasant. For every xenelasia, there was also xeneia, where Greek nobles formed an unbreakable relationship of friendship and solidarity with their noble counterparts, Hellenic and barbaric alike. The list of xenoi includes Thracians, Persians and prominent personalities, like Aegesilaus II of supposedly chauvinistic Sparta. I'm not saying that ancient Greece was a paradise of tolerance, but the real image is more nuanced than the caricature biased moralists, like Plutarch, present.

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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! - general discussion

    Can we consider undoubtly Memnon as black(in vase painting he is depicted as white and as well as black)? Wasn't Memnon a son of Troyan prince Tithonos which was moved to ends of the earth by Hesperids?
    This is hard to be sure because the original tales are missing, i.e. Aethiopis, but Virgil and Ovid described him as black in their own work.

    Anyway, he is a fictional figure and Greek mythical genealogy never had any sense. We are not talking about people that existed, most of the tales from the Troyan cycle are clearly a "Hellenization of Indo-European poetry" to paraphrase Georges Dumézil. Iliad has clearly older archaism alongside more recent additions from poets. It got fixed when it was written only.

    At least, portraying Memnon as a black king would be a fair depiction according to the classical literature.
    Last edited by Genava; June 18, 2020 at 01:04 PM.
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  15. #215

    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! - general discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    For mythical figures, like all the named heroes that are mentioned in the Iliad, I don't think there's much point in trying to guess their complexion based on their ancestry. Unless their appearance is somewhere mentioned in the epic (like it does for Achilles), their skin colour can range from rosy pink to greenish yellow. Regarding xenophobia in the Mycenaean world, classical Greece is not very relevant.

    Still, even if we consider Pericles' Athens as our closest available example, in chronological and geographical terms, it would be a bit unfair to judge them as xenophobic. The dichotomy between barbarians and Greeks is mainly detected in specific authors, like Isocrates or the literature of the Second Sophistic, which does not necessarily reflect the mainstream views of your average Greek peasant. For every xenelasia, there was also xeneia, where Greek nobles formed an unbreakable relationship of friendship and solidarity with their noble counterparts, Hellenic and barbaric alike. The list of xenoi includes Thracians, Persians and prominent personalities, like Aegesilaus II of supposedly chauvinistic Sparta. I'm not saying that ancient Greece was a paradise of tolerance, but the real image is more nuanced than the caricature biased moralists, like Plutarch, present.
    Evaluative dichotomy in Greece existed and probably wasn't Classic or Mycenean period thing but rather old Indo-European custom. Evaluative ethno-linguistic dichotomy is also known in other Indo-European peoples (for example Slavic division Slavs-Němьci, Iranian Airya-Anairya). It is hard by modern standards to not call them to some degree xenophobic(or chevaunistic) when general name for non-Hellenic speaker is pejorative.

  16. #216

    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! - general discussion

    Must say I'm looking forward to this release. I was late to Thrones of Britannia but by the time of the Allegience update I thought it was a decent game. I've stuck so far to strictly historical titles set in the westen wolrd - sorry 3K & Shogun. I'm intrigued by the heroes having initially been turned off by them. I really like the art style- as I did for ToB - and it's nice to see the bright vibrant battles after the gloom of ToB and the doom of Attila. Plus I'm not an anti-Epic enthusiast so all I need to do is set my reminder for launch day to unlock the title.

  17. #217
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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! - general discussion

    A great video (as always) from Darren about the controversies surrounding Troy. He focuses a lot on how awful the combat looks and, although I don't personally consider it a major issue, he's right that it was actually implemented in a more smooth manner in Rome I and Medieval II. Some of the animations really give a rather wonky impression. Anyway, I also appreciated his point about the deeper aspects of the deal between Creative Assembly and Epic Store.

    He convincingly argues that there's no chance Epic will pay CA for any unit downloaded, because such an agreement could be very easily abused by both sides (bots, temporary shutdowns and etc.), but he also explains why break-up of Steam monopoly could actually prove very beneficial for CA, in the long term, despite the negative feedback. It opens a whole new market to CA, which could simply try the game, thanks to Epic's advertisement of its irresistible offers. Darren gets a lot of hate from the fanboy brigade in the social media platforms, but Darren is, in my opinion, a gold-mine of information and foresight, in what concerns business practices.


  18. #218
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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! - general discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    he also explains why break-up of Steam monopoly could actually prove very beneficial for CA, in the long term, despite the negative feedback
    This IS basically the only good trait I seem from Troy total war so far. Although I strongly dislike they choose Epic(failure) instead of say GOG. It's a step on the right direction, only with a bad shoe.
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  19. #219

    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! - general discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    A great video (as always) from Darren about the controversies surrounding Troy. He focuses a lot on how awful the combat looks and, although I don't personally consider it a major issue, he's right that it was actually implemented in a more smooth manner in Rome I and Medieval II. Some of the animations really give a rather wonky impression. Anyway, I also appreciated his point about the deeper aspects of the deal between Creative Assembly and Epic Store.

    He convincingly argues that there's no chance Epic will pay CA for any unit downloaded, because such an agreement could be very easily abused by both sides (bots, temporary shutdowns and etc.), but he also explains why break-up of Steam monopoly could actually prove very beneficial for CA, in the long term, despite the negative feedback. It opens a whole new market to CA, which could simply try the game, thanks to Epic's advertisement of its irresistible offers. Darren gets a lot of hate from the fanboy brigade in the social media platforms, but Darren is, in my opinion, a gold-mine of information and foresight, in what concerns business practices.

    His comments on why CA wouldn't be paid for each copy sounds like its coming from someone with little knowledge of the industry or little imagination to figure out how it can be done. It is very common for companies to provide incentives to a distributor based on how many products they ship out to customers within a certain time period. It's called sell-out support. He calls that impossible. When the product is a digital product like a Total War game with a launcher that can ping any server they desire its even easier to figure out how many copies are given to the customer. Moreover, they could simply devise a plan where any outage would trigger extra time for free downloads or CA could guaranteed revenue with a minimum download amounts. On this regard, Darren failed miserably to inform his viewers on what the deal could be to the level of misleading them.
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  20. #220
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    Default Re: Total War Saga: TROY announced! - general discussion

    CA themselves probably have the best estimation how many copies will be sold upon launch. EPIC simply willingly or unknowlingly offered to pay more.

    SAGA as experiemntal title make big sense to actually ship via different launcher/shop. New audience, people who would otherwise not get in touch with TWs...and let´s face it, after ToB results, after fantasy crowd expecting full fantasy (minotaurs ) and history crowd expecting full Bronze Age collapse scenario, EPIC money probably makes the most sur bet.

    However anything after initial hype/sale is in the stars. Really how many of EPIC customers will stick with TW franchise to buy ANY DLC or ANY other TW game? How many of EPIC promises like crossplay,mod workshop will materialise before Troy hitting Steam?

    In my eyes, free games are the ones I have the lowest reason to play..I have plenty very cheap ones on Steam, GOG and I just very rarely buy DLC to expand base game or something outside similar big sales (75+%) or even play them consistently.

    Unless the Troy is in great quality right after launch, there is in my eyes big fear of people dithichn the game. Just look at ToB. It took year to get final proper patch, now the game is quite good yet general knowledge is what? Bad game....
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