Total War Saga: TROY - general discussion

[Daruwind]

Then it is probalby sad prospect and near future for you Pike Troy will be here next year, WH3 probably 2021 so the "next" game that might interest you is like 2022. If we are not counting 3K DLCs as the tone of game was set already.

[Abdülmecid I]

An expansion-like game, closely linked to the tent-pole Three Kingdoms, is essentially guaranteed (it would probably feature the Warring States period), which means that 2022 is indeed the most optimist scenario, with 2023 also being a strong candidate. As for the character system, I am wholeheartedly against the current "level" approach that has been implemented since Shogun II. When the character of your generals, spies or even diplomats was shaped, according to their experiences, accomplishments, failures, upbringing, family and randomness, I felt much more attached to them. Their evolution seemed realistic and the protagonists looked like genuine human beings with a multi-dimensional background.

On the other hand, the commanders in Rome II or Fall of the Samurai give me the impression of mere tools, who need constant upgrading, based on supernatural veteran points, in order to become more effective and virtually impeccable. Personally, although I probably belong to the minority, I view it as immersion-breaking, as an RPG-like feature, which discourages me from giving too much attention to an otherwise generic and indifferent general, who's probably an almost exact copy of his predecessor. No Daimyo ever matched the exciting controversy surrounding the faction leader in my present Stainless Steel campaign, King Louis the Merciless, who dislikes the Mongols and is openly racist against the English, who visits the church on a weekly basis, but really sees no reason to show even the slightest respect to prisoners.

[alhoon]

I agree. A game based on the Greco-Persian Wars (499 - 449 BC) would have suited better for the TW serie and would have offered much more options IMO.

Like the Wrath of Sparta DLC?

[Anna_Gein]

With Rome 2 main campaign, Caesar in Gaul, Hannibal at the Gate, Rise of the Republic and Wrath of Sparta I feel like CA exploited enough going ever backward in setting where warfare was primitive and pretty much amount to just heavy infantry. At this point it is getting hyper repetitive.

Just as moving slightly onward without reaching the Middle Age have been more than enough explored with the Augustus Campaign, Enpire Divided, Attila, the Last Roman, Charlemagne and Thrones of Britannia.

For all of its flaws Three Kingdoms is a breath of fresh air. Personally I am not ready yet to return to the kind of setting CA has (overly) exploited in the last decade.

I am not a big proponent for a TW Empire 2 or a TW Victoria gane as some fans wish but ai definitely feels a more modern setting would be great. At least a Medieval 3 TW or a Baroque TW.

[herne_the _hunter]

The naval combat in Troy sounds retarded. I thought in Warhammer 2 it's abit of a stretch turning naval battles into field battles. Here's looking forwrd to Warhammer 3.

Just thinking I'm never going to get Vietnam let alone WW1 as as a Total War game...

[geala]

It really baffles me how someone can think of ancient western battles as "primitive" compared to 3K or seemingly the medieval period or put medieval and 16th/17th c. AD combat, which were totally different, into the same context.

Truth is, the classic close combat era of the "Iron Age" is used enough, CA should go backwards and concentrate more on a development game or go forward and reintroduce the history changer gunpowder again. Actually from the formations and unit order on the battlefields, only the period between the 16th and early 19th c. AD ever fit TW mechanics well.

Despite some concerns I'm glad they went Bronze Age with Troy. Very late Bronze Age is not my favored period and from what I've seen they get the unit appearance partly wrong, shiny and moviesque, nevertheless it is interesting, and contrary to WH and 3K I probably will buy Troy and hope for mods to get rid of heroes and similar crap.

To the sea battles, near the Troy period we know at least about one big battle on the sea, of Ramesses III. against the so called Sea Peoples in the Nile delta. Funnily the Sea Peoples would be very good representations of the Greeks who fought at Troy, as a big part of the moving people game from the Aegean area. It's sad they have no actual sea battles in Troy, on the other hand, sea combat of the period was more or less like combat on land, so the method they chose is not totally wrong.

[Lifthrasir]

Like the Wrath of Sparta DLC?

Kind of because that DLC actually starts in 432 BC if I'm not mistaken while the Greco-Persian War happened just before that time. But to get something actually interesting for the gameplay, they (CA) would need to re-think most of the game mechanics to reflect the dissensions among the greek cities (poleis), considering that not all of them actually opposed to the Achaemenids (some even fought on their side).

[Mhaedros]

Just thinking I'm never going to get Vietnam let alone WW1 as as a Total War game...

Well, of course not.

[PikeStance]

Then it is probalby sad prospect and near future for you Pike Troy will be here next year, WH3 probably 2021 so the "next" game that might interest you is like 2022. If we are not counting 3K DLCs as the tone of game was set already.

I consider Troy to be WH lite. I didn't shed a tear when WH was release, I won't for Troy. What is sad is that we won't get a proper Bronze age game.

An expansion-like game, closely linked to the tent-pole Three Kingdoms, is essentially guaranteed (it would probably feature the Warring States period), which means that 2022 is indeed the most optimist scenario, with 2023 also being a strong candidate. As for the character system, I am wholeheartedly against the current "level" approach that has been implemented since Shogun II. When the character of your generals, spies or even diplomats was shaped, according to their experiences, accomplishments, failures, upbringing, family and randomness, I felt much more attached to them. Their evolution seemed realistic and the protagonists looked like genuine human beings with a multi-dimensional background.

On the other hand, the commanders in Rome II or Fall of the Samurai give me the impression of mere tools, who need constant upgrading, based on supernatural veteran points, in order to become more effective and virtually impeccable. Personally, although I probably belong to the minority, I view it as immersion-breaking, as an RPG-like feature, which discourages me from giving too much attention to an otherwise generic and indifferent general, who's probably an almost exact copy of his predecessor. No Daimyo ever matched the exciting controversy surrounding the faction leader in my present Stainless Steel campaign, King Louis the Merciless, who dislikes the Mongols and is openly racist against the English, who visits the church on a weekly basis, but really sees no reason to show even the slightest respect to prisoners.

I agree. I always enjoyed when my general became a drunkard in ETW.

With Rome 2 main campaign, Caesar in Gaul, Hannibal at the Gate, Rise of the Republic and Wrath of Sparta I feel like CA exploited enough going ever backward in setting where warfare was primitive and pretty much amount to just heavy infantry. At this point it is getting hyper repetitive.

Just as moving slightly onward without reaching the Middle Age have been more than enough explored with the Augustus Campaign, Enpire Divided, Attila, the Last Roman, Charlemagne and Thrones of Britannia.

For all of its flaws Three Kingdoms is a breath of fresh air. Personally I am not ready yet to return to the kind of setting CA has (overly) exploited in the last decade.

I am not a big proponent for a TW Empire 2 or a TW Victoria gane as some fans wish but ai definitely feels a more modern setting would be great. At least a Medieval 3 TW or a Baroque TW.

Given CA is avoiding historically set games like the plague, I wouldn't expect anything modern at all.

[Love Mountain]

Umm, what do you call Thrones of Britannia then?

[Nikron]

Umm, what do you call Thrones of Britannia then?

A British customers focused waste of time.

On the bright side, it's good we're not seeing a Medieval 3 yet. Let them experiment and get out of the way these fantasy and uninteresting periods until a new proper team is hired, a new engine is developed, new improved animations, new ideas, proper modding tools, etc.

I'd love to see realistic looking humans and clothes with realistic colours, not those shiny or exaggerated colours. Let the nature have those beautiful contrasted colours but the units to look more "dirty", not competing with nature for strong clear colours.

Having the ability to upgrade current units like in other strategy games or even Assassins Creed. You occupied a new city or plundered a new region? Now invest some money and put some linothorax of ur choice on the units u want. Spend money and time on training them from barbarian style or levy units to proper hoplites.

Ur a nearby barbarian culture who happens to fancy greek advancements? Adopt parts of it, helmets, cuirass, buildings. I'm sick of barbarian armies downgrading a poleis to a Germanic village.

We should be able to be involved more in politics, economy, religion, public duties, etc.

Until then, why have another reskin of previous games into a medieval setting? Rome 3 and Medieval 3 need real love. Fortunately for them there's Divide et Impera keeping ppl still busy with Rome 2 so they dont have to worry about it for another 7 years.

[athanaric]

A British customers focused waste of time.

On the bright side, it's good we're not seeing a Medieval 3 yet. Let them experiment and get out of the way these fantasy and uninteresting periods until a new proper team is hired, a new engine is developed, new improved animations, new ideas, proper modding tools, etc.

TBH, I found vanilla M2TW quite boring. The good thing is that it has allowed for some amazing mods.

I'd love to see realistic looking humans and clothes with realistic colours, not those shiny or exaggerated colours.

Yes, as long as they don't overdo it. Lots of productions go too far the other way into the "Dung Ages" and equip their main characters in leather biker gear (cough Vikings cough) and have everyone dress in black and brown all the time. That's not realistic either.

Let the nature have those beautiful contrasted colours but the units to look more "dirty", not competing with nature for strong clear colours.

Hate to tell you this, but the natural surroundings in existing TW games are even less historically or geographically accurate than the armour and weapons. The ambient noises are random bird songs from North America and some other places, and the plant life isn't any better. The "Germanic forest" in the Teutoburg battle preview in Rome II looked like the Taiga and sounded like Mexico. One of the reasons why I didn't bother with the game.

Having the ability to upgrade current units like in other strategy games or even Assassins Creed. You occupied a new city or plundered a new region? Now invest some money and put some linothorax of ur choice on the units u want. Spend money and time on training them from barbarian style or levy units to proper hoplites.

Ur a nearby barbarian culture who happens to fancy greek advancements? Adopt parts of it, helmets, cuirass, buildings. I'm sick of barbarian armies downgrading a poleis to a Germanic village.

We should be able to be involved more in politics, economy, religion, public duties, etc.

I agree to some extent. There should be more possible culture switch mechanisms, and generally more mechanisms.

[Jac_PS]

Boring as hell. Getting tiered of all those melee specific games. ETW2 when? Pike and Shot when? Victoria TW when? With Naval battles, when? Jeezes! Just don't care CA! Give the gunpowder boys something. The melee and fantasy boys had enough for now.

I dont even WANT a gunpowder based TW anymore, I don't think this new dev's can deliver it. Just give us something like Empire/Napoleon remastered, i don't know, like patched to the brim ( I know it's a dream) and up to the engine nowadays.
But I'm with you Izzi, I've had enough of this meele-hero-semi-fantasy TW's. All in all, I've just lost the interest. Back in the day, when a new TW was announced, I was thrilling for the game. Not anymore.

[athanaric]

I dont even WANT a gunpowder based TW anymore, I don't think this new dev's can deliver it. Just give us something like Empire/Napoleon remastered, i don't know, like patched to the brim ( I know it's a dream) and up to the engine nowadays.
But I'm with you Izzi, I've had enough of this meele-hero-semi-fantasy TW's. All in all, I've just lost the interest. Back in the day, when a new TW was announced, I was thrilling for the game. Not anymore.

Last time I looked, those "melee specific games" had a lot of ranged units including archers, crossbowmen, javelineers, field artillery. In fact, some mods had huge difficulties dealing with OP cavalry, in particular horse archers. Hence, I think it's a weird complaint to make, just like the commenter earlier who said that those games were all about heavy infantry (what about cavalry, light infantry, artillery?). I do agree that Warhammer is uninteresting and that they've gone a little bit too far down the "hero" route, but then again, that's our personal opinion and does not necessarily represent the majority of turn-based strategy fans.
Personally, I'm open to all kinds of scenarios, but something tells me that we're very unlikely to see a WWI Total War game, let alone a WWII one (can you imagine the moral outrage from the usual suspects?). What would be interesting to see, IMO, is a fantasy-based TW game that has nothing to do with Warhammer or Warcraft, and is not pseudo-historical like 3K or Troy, either.

[Nikron]

TBH, I found vanilla M2TW quite boring. The good thing is that it has allowed for some amazing mods.

Every TW game is like that without mods.

Yes, as long as they don't overdo it. Lots of productions go too far the other way into the "Dung Ages" and equip their main characters in leather biker gear (cough Vikings cough) and have everyone dress in black and brown all the time. That's not realistic either.

That's not what I meant and recent games have all caught up to it, as you don't have people with radiating skins anymore. TW soldiers look also robotish which I'm sure a new engine will fix everything and get that quality up to date. It's all about the human movement too whereas in TW we still have robot movements.

Hate to tell you this, but the natural surroundings in existing TW games are even less historically or geographically accurate than the armour and weapons. The ambient noises are random bird songs from North America and some other places, and the plant life isn't any better. The "Germanic forest" in the Teutoburg battle preview in Rome II looked like the Taiga and sounded like Mexico. One of the reasons why I didn't bother with the game.

Again, that's not what I meant. Don't expect Rome 2 to have the same nature details as Witcher 3 or recent Assassins Creed as they're less cpu bound. But different colours on different objects differ and part of the problem is also the horrible lighting. Just think of units looking less cartoonish.

I'm a lot into visuals and the lighting of TW games as well as the zoomed out details are really a turn off for me. Even Imperator Rome's skins that represent the armies look smoother even though they're of a low quality.

Anyway, in their defense Rome 2 which I play is 6 years old but I don't see any improvement in the recent 3K or even in the trailer of Troy as they look even more cartoonish.

[PikeStance]

I dont even WANT a gunpowder based TW anymore, I don't think this new dev's can deliver it. Just give us something like Empire/Napoleon remastered, i don't know, like patched to the brim ( I know it's a dream) and up to the engine nowadays.
But I'm with you Izzi, I've had enough of this meele-hero-semi-fantasy TW's. All in all, I've just lost the interest. Back in the day, when a new TW was announced, I was thrilling for the game. Not anymore.

Yes, I do not think Total War will be "Total War" again. Based on their own statements CA, is going to bleed the 3k period dry and it sounds like they will be doing it for a while. I doubt they will even make a warring states period. That will most likely will have be a mod which will include a true historical version of the game. I fear, Sagas will be reduce to historical fiction. If you want an in-depth total war experience you may want to check out an upcoming game, called Grand Tactician. If you heart is set on Napoleonic era, you might want to check out, Histwar.

[PointOfViewGun]

Total War of today is as much total as it was when we had the first Shogun. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise just because some features have changed.

[PikeStance]

If you care to look at the features offered in Grand Tactician, you will have a better understanding of what I mean. When Shogun was first release, what could be done was limited. Now, independent developers are taking the games to the next level allowing for a more realistic impression of Total War. The Creative Assembly may have the marketing of the name, Total War, but it no longer developing a Total War experience. It is actually very ridiculous to suggest that otherwise considering what has been developed and what is developing. If you would bother to review the game, you will most definitely have a different opinion.

[PointOfViewGun]

There isn't enough out there about the game you suggested to review at length. What's provided so far is quite superficial. Sure, the game could be striving for as much realism as possible but that's never been part of Total War games, nor its a must. By definition, the gaming experience that Total War games provide are total war experiences.

[PikeStance]

LMAO you posted this 15 minutes after my post.